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Post by berkley on Feb 8, 2021 11:55:36 GMT -5
I love how we nitpick battles like these:) Personally, I view it like sports. Team A is clearly better than Team B. Team A is 10-1 and Team B is 1-10. But Team B got their one win against Team A. Against the odds, the fact they were a weaker team. It happens. Certainly not all the time but it does. Superheroes are, for the most part, still humanistic in nature. They can get caught up in emotion, not think straight or simply have a bad day. And those days result in losing fights they never should have. I apply that to all the scenarios here (well except for Marvel/DC crossovers which are just meant for fun so anything goes and Squirrel Girl which is meant to be humourous).
Yeah, but in your analogy Teams A and B are at least in the same league. Some of these superhero scenarios are more like the Stanley Cup champions playing a team of 7-year olds, in terms of the disparities in size and strength. Actually much more than that, in some cases.
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Post by badwolf on Feb 8, 2021 12:20:52 GMT -5
This is my look at the following combat matches in comics and just had to shake my head. There's just no way these battles end like they did. # 1Batman beats SupermanSuperman just has too many powers and abilities to be beaten by Batman. He could have fried him with his heat vision from a distance. But would he have fried him, that's the question.
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Post by The Cheat on Feb 8, 2021 14:13:38 GMT -5
Lois Lane staring deep into Superman's eye, yet she can't see the same man behind a pair of glasses. Pre-Crisis, obviously. I mean, she's not the Tick...
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 8, 2021 16:05:03 GMT -5
#9 Spider-Man /Quicksilver Amazing Spider-man # 71
Sorry, no way that Spider-man could stop Pietro this way. I thought that Quicksilver saw everyone as statues because of his speed. He would see Spidey sticking his arm out. Calling Confessor ! Stat! Ah, but Peter's lightning quick Spider reflexes mean that he can move much faster than a regular human when he needs to, plus Quicksilver was getting cocky and took his eye off the ball. The combination of those two things together resulted in the panels we see here. How was that? Do I win a No Prize?
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Post by brutalis on Feb 8, 2021 17:32:43 GMT -5
#9 Spider-Man /Quicksilver Amazing Spider-man # 71
Sorry, no way that Spider-man could stop Pietro this way. I thought that Quicksilver saw everyone as statues because of his speed. He would see Spidey sticking his arm out. Calling Confessor ! Stat! Ah, but Peter's lightning quick Spider reflexes mean that he can move much faster than a regular human when he needs to, plus Quicksilver was getting cocky and took his eye off the ball. The combination of those two things together resulted in the panels we see here. How was that? Do I win a No Prize? Consider your No Prize as Not in the Mail ya Irish Varmint!
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Post by Nowhere Man on Feb 8, 2021 18:48:58 GMT -5
My favorite though is Peter Parker (at least the original Ditko design) landing two supermodels in Gwen and MJ. Or every super-scientist in the Marvel and DC universes looking like Brad Pitt on a good day. The /Ditko-era Parker never dated / had a romantic relationship with either Gwen or Mary Jane. His dating options jumped to that level as soon as the Romita era started. I wasn’t clear but I always assumed Parker was still supposed to be on the geeky side but Romita’s inability to draw average or unattractive people confuses the issue.
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Post by berkley on Feb 8, 2021 18:58:14 GMT -5
I like Grant Morrison's description of superhero comics as stories about "beautiful people doing amazing things", so everyone looking so good doesn't bother me - I even miss it when an artist decides to be a little more realistic. And when they go too far in that direction I find it hardly ever works: Alex Maleev's paunchy Sub-Mariner looked like something out of Not Brand Ecch! to me.
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 8, 2021 20:45:53 GMT -5
The /Ditko-era Parker never dated / had a romantic relationship with either Gwen or Mary Jane. His dating options jumped to that level as soon as the Romita era started. I wasn’t clear but I always assumed Parker was still supposed to be on the geeky side but Romita’s inability to draw average or unattractive people confuses the issue. The change in Parker's looks was part of his maturing as dictated by the story; he was not supposed to continue being skinny and/or awkward. That said, if he needed to be geeky, Romita could have handled that, as there's not a long list of physical types he could not draw.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 8, 2021 20:53:26 GMT -5
#10 Toad/ Magneto Avengers # 53
The toad gets the better of the master of magnetism. Always remember to make a ship out of plastic, cause, Reasons.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 9, 2021 1:56:40 GMT -5
Nowhere Man, the roots of Peter's romance with Gwen began in the Ditko era of ASM. There was some sexual tension between those two, with Gwen frequently asking herself why she was so attracted to the bookish Peter Parker. Peter was also interested in her to a degree; you know, thought she was attractive, was worried when she was giving him the cold shoulder etc. But they didn't actually start dating til the Romita era and, of course, Mary Jane was on the scene by then too (although she had appeared a few times with her face obscured in the Ditko run), but the roots of Peter and Gwen's romance definitely go back to the Ditko era, even though they weren't a couple then.
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 9, 2021 5:16:00 GMT -5
Gwen was introduced at the tail end of Ditko's run in ASM #31 (only seven issues left at that point), and although she had an interest, there was no actual dating/love between the two until the Romita era.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 9, 2021 5:53:23 GMT -5
#11 Mantis/ Avengers Avengers # 114
Cmon Steve Englehart, Mantis can single handily without weapons defeat Thor and Captain America? Mary Sue , anyone ?
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 9, 2021 9:18:44 GMT -5
I do not think Bob Brown served those stories well. The included the lead up to the Celestial Madonna and Avengers/Defenders.
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Post by berkley on Feb 9, 2021 11:11:49 GMT -5
I do not think Bob Brown served those stories well. The included the lead up to the Celestial Madonna and Avengers/Defenders. Yeah, he's anothr guy that I didn't realise was actually a very good artist until years later when I saw some of his older, I think non-superhero work, forgetwhat it was now, exactly. I never liked him on the Avengers or Daredevil. Englehart's Avengers especially deserved a more sympathetic artist - the best-written Avnergers run ever, and some of the most mediocre or worse art.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Feb 9, 2021 11:44:55 GMT -5
I can't blame Bob Brown for Englehart writing Mantis like the most annoying Mary Sue in the history of comics. She is the primary reason I can't rate Englehart's run as highly as many people do. The fact that he insisted on dragging her with him to every run he did in the future with every company just compounds things. The ultimate in 70's/80's writer indulgence and maybe the best argument ever for Jim Shooter's tighter editorial policies.
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