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Post by berkley on Feb 23, 2021 20:37:46 GMT -5
Ah yes, and here we have yet another trope that annoys me - no, two!
1. "... some imagined slight to your precious, little, alien ego!"
Imagine if instead of alien they said Jewish or American or African or whatever. But if it's wrong in those instances - and it is - it's wrong here too, beacuse it's the same attitude, just directed at an imaginary "other" instead of a real life one.
2. "You may be bigger, and far more powerful, but that's just not good enough mister! You'll never stop me no matter how strong you are! I'm too stubborn to know when to quit! I'll keep fighting until I find a way to beat you! To win!"
Because I'm a never-say-die human and you're just an alien snowflake loser! Beacuse I'm the underdog and you're the privileged favourite! Because being bigger and stronger isn't enough ... when you're the antagonist and not the protagonist, when the vicarious thrill is from an imagined moral superiority rather than physical.
Who wrote this twaddle - er, I mean this fine example of superhero dialogue at its most typical?
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Post by chaykinstevens on Feb 24, 2021 8:12:40 GMT -5
Tom DeFalco wrote this twaddle.
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Post by berkley on Feb 24, 2021 11:33:46 GMT -5
Tom DeFalco wrote this twaddle.
Well, I should make clear that I don't mean to condemn DeFalco personally, because I'm sure most of my favourite superhero writers have written similar lines at least once in their careers. It's a problem with the genre itself, and some of its conventions.
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 24, 2021 12:22:11 GMT -5
Tom DeFalco! How well I recall that when he replaced Marv Wolfman on MACHINE MAN, he proved himself to be EVEN WORSE than Wolfman-- and you wouldn't have thought that was possible.
And then there was AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. I sometimes wonder if Roger Stern was all that good, or if it was just that he DIDN'T SUCK REALLY BAD like so many of his contemporaries. The point is, when Stern departed abruptly (right in the middle of a mystery HE set up), the book went TO HELL!! And then it got worse. And then it got WORSE. And then it got EVEN worse. Of course, I'd quit buying long before that. Stern was the guy who got me to come back. But it fell apart before long even then.
Basically... I wasn't really enjoying Walt Simonson on FANTASTIC FOUR. I was just tolerating him there. I mean... he wasn't as bad as Doug Moench or Roger Stern or Steve Englehart had been. So many decent writers crashing and burning on that series, why on why didn't they just put it out to "RERUN HEAVEN" like they would with a classic TV series? But when I read that DeFalco was going to take over... I QUIT BUYING right then. There was no need for me to put up with anymore of his AWFULNESS. And I've never regretted it.
You know, a lot of problems with series would be solved if they just had a certain life span and then ENDED, with maybe the occasional revival story here and there. This "having" to go on "forever" because it's corporate-owned and it's not art but "PRODUCT" I'm really long past fed up with.
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Post by badwolf on Feb 24, 2021 14:22:14 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that de Falco was bad, but he definitely wrote to the younger end of the reader spectrum, and therefore probably doesn't hold up to adult readers the way other writers with a broader range might. The Machine Man issue that appears in the Alpha Flight omnibus is so jarring sandwiched between Claremont and Byrne.
And yes, Roger Stern really was that good. I re-read his Spider-Man omnibus apart from any other runs (so I wasn't comparing it to anything I had just read in the title) and it was fantastic.
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 24, 2021 15:26:42 GMT -5
And yes, Roger Stern really was that good. I re-read his Spider-Man omnibus apart from any other runs (so I wasn't comparing it to anything I had just read in the title) and it was fantastic. Stern was one of the few truly strong writers at Marvel during the 1980s, and without question the last writer for The Amazing Spider-Man who truly understood the characters and their established motivations that has not been seen since.
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Post by badwolf on Feb 24, 2021 16:01:49 GMT -5
I thought there were quite a few strong writers at Marvel in the 80s.
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Post by brutalis on Feb 24, 2021 16:37:26 GMT -5
I thought there were quite a few strong writers at Marvel in the 80s. Blame it on not using enough deodorant! 😉
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Post by badwolf on Feb 24, 2021 16:49:36 GMT -5
I thought there were quite a few strong writers at Marvel in the 80s. Blame it on not using enough deodorant! 😉 I guess that's why they called it the bullpen.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,049
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Post by Confessor on Feb 24, 2021 17:00:24 GMT -5
I thought there were quite a few strong writers at Marvel in the 80s. I agree. I thought Frank Miller, David Michelinie, J.M. deMattias, Bill Mantlo, and Jo Duffy all did great work at Marvel in the 80s, just to name some favourites off the top of my head. I also loved Stern's run on ASM.
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Post by badwolf on Feb 24, 2021 17:07:42 GMT -5
I thought there were quite a few strong writers at Marvel in the 80s. I agree. I thought Frank Miller, David Michelinie, J.M. deMatteis, Bill Mantlo, and Jo Duffy all did great work at Marvel in the 80s, just to name some favourites off the top of my head. I also loved Stern's run on ASM. Claremont, Byrne, W. Simonson, Moench as well.
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Post by james on Mar 8, 2021 18:31:47 GMT -5
Stern, Byrne,Simonson, and Dematties. I will pick up anything they write now.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 10, 2021 8:22:25 GMT -5
Don't forget Ann Nocenti!!! Her Daredevil run was all the more impressive for following Miller's Earth-shaking Born Again storyline without repeating it, imitating it or resetting the book to the status quo ante.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 10, 2021 8:32:32 GMT -5
I thought there were quite a few strong writers at Marvel in the 80s. Well, I did say, "...one of the few truly strong writers at Marvel during the 1980s". Meaning there were a few other than Stern.
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Post by james on Mar 11, 2021 17:50:25 GMT -5
I am reading the Hulk from 314-407 and I came across this little tidbit from the issues written an drawn by Al Milgrom (the low point of this Hulk run) I can’t remember the exact issue but the gist is the Japanese scientist goes up against the Hulk and is able to “use his weight against him” and he face plants into the ground. Sorry, DON’T BUY IT!🙄
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