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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 15:29:34 GMT -5
After our latest discussion on the age old spirited debate regarding Crisis on Infinite Earths (it was the best of times, it was the worst of times...), I'm now curious if we would trend towards age when it comes to opinions.
Are we truly divided by a great intellectual divide, or are some of us just old and cranky (I know I greatly resemble the latter)?
Very simple poll choice - "good or bad" and pick your age group for the one you select, you can write in the comments below to further qualify or express your Switzerland opinion on the topic.
What sayeth you?
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Post by majestic on Mar 22, 2022 15:43:13 GMT -5
Age 60. Voted Crisis Bad. As a reader I loved the differences between Marvel & DC. I felt Crisis moved DC to become more like Marvel. I loved the multiple earths in the DCU. I wish DC had maybe decreased or combined earths instead. For example have the Fawcett & Quality heroes on one earth. I also felt the aftermath of the Crisis was handled poorly so DC never really did accomplish what the Crisis was supposed to accomplish. IMO Crisis should have led into something similar to the New 52 DC. As it was it made things more confusing. Also I felt DC acknowledged their past in the 60s while other than Capt America Marvel ignored theirs. Crisis felt like DC was erasing that past to some extent. On the positive side it did pull readers into the shops and got Marvel readers to check out DC titles.
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 22, 2022 16:03:12 GMT -5
As an over 60 I voted Good. I was not a fan of Silver Age DC. And read only of the few fan favorite books. Fourth World, GJ/GA. Swampthing. I did not read most of the Super Hero titles until after Crisis.
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 22, 2022 16:39:21 GMT -5
50-59 bad. The art is unparalleled. George Perez, my favorite artist, at the height of his powers. However, as far as I'm concerned, COII was ultimately a disaster. I thought the multiverse was a great and unique to DC concept. I don't know why DC felt they had to "simplify" it - by the way, it only added confusion and didn't simplify anything. Even as a kid, I didn't have trouble understanding DC's parallel earths. Plus, it's started a ridiculous pattern at DC of rebooting every couple of years. I prefer Marvel's approach to continuity.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 16:40:02 GMT -5
Where's the vote for meh? It wasn't good, wasn't quite bad, just overblown and really only had Perez art to raise it to a level worth checking out. It had a couple of moments surrounded and inundated by a whole lot of bleh. I discovered it in media res on the spinner racks and later grabbed the rest as back issues because I sort of wanted to figure out what was happening, but the real reason was to see Perez draw all those characters. In the end the story wasn't worth the effort but Perez sure did draw some pretty pictures. That said, there really was no reason to ever revisit it as a story after it was done. So I didn't love it, don't hate it, don't really care much about it at all one way or the other, so meh. And in the 50-59 age group for reference.
-M
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 16:41:22 GMT -5
I voted good.
People are free to dislike it, not a big deal, some of their best choices bore me to death....we can agree to disagree.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 16:55:19 GMT -5
"....we can agree to disagree."
Absolutely...debate should be fun, but total respect as always for all opinions. I've got my feelings on this topic like everyone else, but enjoy hearing the different viewpoints.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 17:03:47 GMT -5
Where's the vote for meh. It wasn't good, wasn't quite bad, just overblown and really only had Perez art to raise it a level worth checking out. It had a couple of moments surrounded and inundated by a whole lot of bleh. I discovered it in media res on the spinner racks and later grabbed the rest as back issues because I sort of wanted to figure out what was happening, but the real reason was to see Perez draw all those characters. In the end the story wasn't worth the effort but Perez sure did draw some pretty pictures. That said, there really was no reason to ever revisit it as a story after it was done. So I didn't love it, don't hate it, don't really care much about it at all one way or the other, so meh. And in the 50-59 age group for reference. -M I debated putting in a "meh" vote but decided to keep it an either/or since I've already exploded out the choices with the age groupings. But glad you added the comments on that, I was wondering if some folks felt more middle of the road.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 22, 2022 17:05:54 GMT -5
As an over 60 I voted Good. I was not a fan of Silver Age DC. And read only of the few fan favorite books. Fourth World, GJ/GA. Swampthing. I did not read most of the Super Hero titles until after Crisis. I voted good as well, and yes, Silver Age DC was--to put it mildly--a problem that DC recognized during the Silver Age. As noted in another thread, Crisis on Infinite Earths was DC setting decades of nonsense right, and jettisoning much of what made DC's content laughable compared to Silver/Bronze Age Marvel. Its success was due to the readers longing for that correction, and finally getting it in one of the few comic "events" ever published that lived up to that descriptors' meaning. The follow-up-- History of the DC Universe (1986): successfully delivered a format--a tight, sound history for a comic universe. Wolfman and Perez continued their grand, unparalleled restructuring of DC in this miniseries, laying out the perfect road to a coherent, shared world going forward. Too bad other writers and editors did not stick to that near-perfect course in the years to follow.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 22, 2022 17:10:26 GMT -5
Age 43 and not sure how to vote. I barely recall the actual story, and the ensuing idea to streamline the DC multiverse was an after-thought that wasn't implemented until a year later. So if we are debating whether or not we like the reset, then YES. It failed miserably, but it was an ambitious idea, and it made the DCU a fresh place for a while, even if so much of it faltered due to poor planning. But if we are debating whether or not it was a good story/event, I have no horse in that race.
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 22, 2022 17:11:50 GMT -5
Just turned 64. I voted for Bad (big surprise, right?), and not for its effect on continuity or the loss of the multiverse. Aside from Perez's art and a handful of powerful scenes, there is nothing praiseworthy about it. Wolfman's plot is nonsensical, illogical, internally contradictory, arbitrary, bloated/padded, and reeks of the author's total ignorance of physics and cosmology. It actually pains me to think about it. COIE is Exhibit A for why comics writers should not act as their own editors.
Cei-U! I summon the big ol' thumbs down!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 17:12:36 GMT -5
Age 43 and not sure how to vote. I barely recall the actual story, and the ensuing idea to streamline the DC multiverse was an after-thought that wasn't implemented until a year later. So if we are debating whether or not we like the reset, then YES. It failed miserably, but it was an ambitious idea, and it made the DCU a fresh place for a while, even if so much of it faltered due to poor planning. But if we are debating whether or not it was a good story/event, I have no horse in that race. That's a good callout to qualify further...I was thinking good/bad as in the "event", both the immediate implications of the story as well as the aftermath of how the DC universe was reshaped.
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 22, 2022 17:13:11 GMT -5
I am talking more about the results of COIE. The series itself was overlong and over written. With, it must be noted, spectacular art.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 17:27:51 GMT -5
It's all Roy Thomas' fault why I struggled with Crisis. He made me fall in love with the Golden Age by way of All-Star Squadron (beyond the core JSA team from the JLA crossover issues). Just when I was learning about all these amazing characters from DC's rich history, they were suddenly ripped away from me!
Ok, a bit tongue in cheek there, but in all seriousness, by the time Crisis came around, I had been reading not only a steady stream of Bronze Age DC comics for a number of years, but a ton of Silver Age reprints as well. One of the coolest things to me about DC was this ENORMOUS pantheon of characters that had built over the years, and understanding how they fit in.
It seemed like every month in the little Adventure Comics digests (in full reprint form at the end of the run in the early 80's), I kept getting introduced to character after character. Who was the Ray, he was amazing! Old Spectre, Challengers of the Unknown, etc. I didn't want "simpler", I wanted more, or more specifically, to seek out more of their history. I guess maybe I just had a taste for the "vintage material" right from the get go, even though I was enjoying contemporary titles as well from that time.
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Post by commond on Mar 22, 2022 17:28:54 GMT -5
I'm 40-49, and I voted for bad.
Crisis happened a few years before I started reading comics, so to me the post-Crisis reboots were simply the norm. I didn't think anything of the changes because those were the only DC comics I knew. I enjoyed the books at the time, but looking back at them now, it's very much a case of The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. The reason I voted for bad is because Crisis kickstarted the never-ending cycle of crossovers and title reboots that persists to this very day.
And also because of what it did to Jonah Hex. Never forgive, never forget.
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