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Post by mikelmidnight on Dec 10, 2020 12:34:49 GMT -5
Mark Waid seems to have brought new life to the few comics he was involved with I've read. Maybe not trans formative perhaps but more than just keeping a title going. I haven't read much but I have a bad impression of his stuff from how he wrote Orion in the JLA. I know it's unfair to judge a writer's work as a whole from such a small, isolated example, and it hasn't decided me against reading anything by Waid, ever, but his name in the credits is not a draw for me. there are a few other things too that I've heard about but haven't read - I thnk he was one of the guys beind the new, wise-cracking, woman-chasing Dr. Strange? But I might still try one of his independent books if I ever hear of one that sounds interesting.
I liked some of Waid's work on Flash before it became obsessed with the Speed Force, and I actually did like at least one of his Legion reboots. In general, however, his work has always struck me as mediocre.
Sandman is excellent, but I have heard disappointing things about the Eternals. I'm not sure why Gaiman would have done such a poor job of it, as he's usually adept at handling other peoples' characters. Maybe he had trouble getting a grasp on them so wrote from his own agenda.
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Post by beccabear67 on Dec 10, 2020 13:24:48 GMT -5
He kind of disowned it but Ellison did create/write for the '70s sf tv series The Starlost which I enjoyed. And yeah... Demon With A Glass Hand too! That great Bradbury building in L.A.! I also remember a short story Pretty Maggie Money Eyes because it was set in a casino.
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Post by berkley on Dec 10, 2020 13:28:11 GMT -5
But there are several contemporary writers that have killed my interest in their other work by lack-lustre writing for the Big 2, especially the New Gods or the Eternals, since I rate those two concepts so highly and they've been written so badly by so many. Neil Gaiman, for example, though I still plan to read Sandman one of these days. Not to mention a lot of lesser names that I think are just plain bad, like Jason Aaron. Sandman is excellent, but I have heard disappointing things about the Eternals. I'm not sure why Gaiman would have done such a poor job of it, as he's usually adept at handling other peoples' characters. Maybe he had trouble getting a grasp on them so wrote from his own agenda.
I think it's pretty straightforward, and has more to do with the task Gaiman was assigned than with his own ability, though I do think he made some bad decisions even considering the narrow bounds he was left to work within. But I won't go into all the details of the matter, as I see it, right now. I'm planning to start a thread in the next few weeks where I'll get it all off my chest. It's going to be pretty relentlessly negative since it'll be all about what I don't like about the various takes on the Eternals since Kirby's book was cancelled, including what we know so far about Gillen's upcming series - or perhaps I'll do a separate thread for Gillen's Eternals on the Modern Comics board. My idea is that by doing this in its own thread, I'll refrain from intruding my negativity on any talk about the new series in other threads - because I know here are lots of members who like the MU Eternals, Gaiman's and others just fine, and will enjoy Gillen's version too.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Dec 11, 2020 12:11:09 GMT -5
My idea is that by doing this in its own thread, I'll refrain from intruding my negativity on any talk about the new series in other threads - because I know here are lots of members who like the MU Eternals, Gaiman's and others just fine, and will enjoy Gillen's version too.
I'm all for isolating negativity!
I will add that the ONLY non-Kirby account of the Eternals I have ever liked, was Roger Stern in the too-soon-cancelled Marvel Universe series.
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Post by berkley on Dec 12, 2020 22:09:38 GMT -5
My idea is that by doing this in its own thread, I'll refrain from intruding my negativity on any talk about the new series in other threads - because I know here are lots of members who like the MU Eternals, Gaiman's and others just fine, and will enjoy Gillen's version too.
I'm all for isolating negativity!
I will add that the ONLY non-Kirby account of the Eternals I have ever liked, was Roger Stern in the too-soon-cancelled Marvel Universe series.
Didn't know about that one. What's the lowdown on the Eternals characters or subplots or whatever was Eternals-related about it?
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Post by mikelmidnight on Dec 14, 2020 13:04:47 GMT -5
I'm all for isolating negativity!
I will add that the ONLY non-Kirby account of the Eternals I have ever liked, was Roger Stern in the too-soon-cancelled Marvel Universe series.
Didn't know about that one. What's the lowdown on the Eternals characters or subplots or whatever was Eternals-related about it?
Makarri reveals that he had been an active superhero in the 40s … and he was Hurricane and Mercury (the superhero).
It works perfectly:
(a) ties together three Kirby godlike speedsters (as well as a fourth speedster by the wayside);
(b) adds to Makarri's background without compromising anything;
(c) ties up the continuity problems between Hurricane and Mercury not really fitting into mainstream MU continuity;
(d) has him as a longtime opponent of Kro, tying in the devilish figure whom both Hurricane and Mercury battle, and again without compromising Kro's continuity;
(e) gives us a reasonable Eternal involvement in the heroic age of WW2 without being overwhelming about it.
This is exactly how a continuity implant/retcon ought to be done.
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Post by profh0011 on Dec 14, 2020 23:00:39 GMT -5
Roger Stern was something else, hmm?
At times, I'm not so sure he was that great... the thing is, he WAS that much BETTER than those around him. Kinda like Steve Englehart.
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Post by berkley on Dec 14, 2020 23:57:13 GMT -5
Didn't know about that one. What's the lowdown on the Eternals characters or subplots or whatever was Eternals-related about it?
Makarri reveals that he had been an active superhero in the 40s … and he was Hurricane and Mercury (the superhero).
It works perfectly:
(a) ties together three Kirby godlike speedsters (as well as a fourth speedster by the wayside);
(b) adds to Makarri's background without compromising anything;
(c) ties up the continuity problems between Hurricane and Mercury not really fitting into mainstream MU continuity;
(d) has him as a longtime opponent of Kro, tying in the devilish figure whom both Hurricane and Mercury battle, and again without compromising Kro's continuity;
(e) gives us a reasonable Eternal involvement in the heroic age of WW2 without being overwhelming about it.
This is exactly how a continuity implant/retcon ought to be done.
I see, thanks for the info. For myself, I don't see the need to tie Makarri or Kro or whoever in with MU history or continuity, but yeah, if you're going to do it , then figure out a way to do your thing that doesn't force you to alter what's given in the Kirby series. I think too many other writers, including Gaiman and, I'm pretty sure from his interviews, Gillen, feel it's OK to change whatever they want in order to make it fit their needs, no matter if it makes sense in terms of the character or not, never mind the underlying concept of the original.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Dec 15, 2020 12:27:01 GMT -5
For myself, I don't see the need to tie Makarri or Kro or whoever in with MU history or continuity, but yeah, if you're going to do it , then figure out a way to do your thing that doesn't force you to alter what's given in the Kirby series.
I think incorporating the Eternals into the MU proper was a huge mistake.
Part of the reason I liked this so much is that it also salvaged two 40's heroes, Hurricane (the son of Thor!) and Mercury (the god, even though it's never been referred to in any other Marvel treatment of him … and in addition if you read the Timely comics these two are obviously the same guy) who did not at all fit into current continuity, and did so in a seamless and logical way … that also didn't impugn Makarri's character at all.
I also appreciated that he didn't complicate continuity by implanting dozens of 'hidden' cases or adventures. It just said, these are the same guy, and left it at that.
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