|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 11:26:34 GMT -5
You made an excellent point here! ... But, to me it's will be unthinkable thing for Marvel to cancel it ... I'm curious about what they going to do in 2015 - as MRP reported by that Bleeding Cool Article that was posted earlier in this thread. Marvel without FF is like DC COMICS without Batman period. I will be a sad fan here ...I would like to respectfully disagree with your analogy (bolding and underlining mine). Even though FF was first out of the gate for Marvel, it has been a very long time since they were top dog like Batman is for DC currently. First it was Spider-Man, then the X-Men, and now the Avengers, while the FF just trudged along, all the while with an unchanging dynamic. If Marvel wants to come up with something new for the Avengers, just age Steve Rogers and hand his shield to Sam Wilson, or let Rhodey fill the armor instead of Tony for a while, or bring in Luke Cage to run a street-level team, or have Spidey or Wolverine (shudder) join the team. With other teams, members could come and go because they were individuals drawn to the group for a myriad of reasons, but the FF was family, and to change the dynamic would mean fundamentally altering the character, both on the page as well as in the readers' perception. If Reed or Sue leave, they're a heel for walking out on their spouse or children, and if Johnny leaves to pursue his own interests, he's abandoning his sister, niece, and nephew who love him dearly. Ben, the only one not related by blood to the others, can leave, but as he is pretty much the soul of the team, it leaves a big hole. FF, to me, is a lot like Captain Marvel (Big Red Cheese, not Carol Danvers). They had their time in the sun, being on top of the comic world, but their very concept has become outdated. Every time DC tries to reboot or relaunch a Captain Marvel book, it fails, not because it's inherently bad, but because the world has moved on from the concept. Kids don't read comics any more, by and large, and the adults who do read them no longer identify with being a little kid saying a magic word and becoming a superhero, surrounded by super-powered relatives and a talking tiger, while fighting genius worms and other foes sprung from a child's imagination. Updating the book by eliminating some of those elements removes the core of what made Captain Marvel work in the 40's and '50's, and it's no longer the same book or character, just someone dressed up in familiar clothes but obviously not quite right. Okay, Richard I get your drift here and remember I have been here for a month now - and I'm a 55 years old man here with some knowledge of Marvel Comics from 1965 to 1995 and one of my favorite groups were the Fantastic Four - I haven't read any Marvel books except Spiderman and Wolverine ever since and my limitation on Marvel Comics is very limited here and I do dabble now and then - but I was a loyal FF fan from 1965 to 1995 and having said that I will be very sad to see this book go in the boneyard and having said that I'll be shocked if they did that. |
|
|
|
Post by MatthewP on Oct 7, 2014 14:52:16 GMT -5
Even if the FF does end next year, I'm sure they'll bring them back in 1 or 2 years. Marvel wouldn't let big (potentially profitable) names like the FF stay gone for long. The big question is if it will look like the traditional FF, or will they be re-tooled to look like the movie FF? Or perhaps some all-new weird reboot?
As a traditionalist I want the old school FF, but given the current styles in comics I think my best bet is to keep reading my FF back issues.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 15:10:07 GMT -5
That's the thing, the FF isn't profitable for Marvel. The comics don't sell enough to be profitable on their own, and Fox has the media and merchandise rights, so Marvel doesn't get that pie.
On a similar note, Chris Claremont essentially confirmed at a comics panel that the X-office is no longer allowed to create new characters in the X-books because their rights for media and merchandise go to Fox under the terms of the contract, so he can only use existing characters when he writes a book like Nightcrawler now. New characters will only be created under the banners of Marvel where Marvel retains the media and merchandise rights.
Marvel negotiated a bad deal with Fox. It was probably necessary to their survival at the time, but now he consequences of that deal are being felt. Marvel's creative decisions are business driven, not creative driven, not tradition driven, and not fan desire driven. It is not Marvel, it is Marvel the subsidiary/division of Disney now. What was is not what informs what is or will be. Of course the same is true not that WB has taken an active hand. DC Comics no longer exists, it is DC Entertainment now and the move to Burbank ends all vestiges of what was DC Comics. Comics are a small part of the picture that makes up these entertainment companies now. Just as GE started out as a lamp and light bulb company but is no longer that, Marvel and DC stated as comics companies but are no longer that. We see them that way through our rose colored nostalgia glasses, but that is not what they are anymore.
-M
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 18:10:06 GMT -5
On a similar note, Chris Claremont essentially confirmed at a comics panel that the X-office is no longer allowed to create new characters in the X-books because their rights for media and merchandise go to Fox under the terms of the contract, so he can only use existing characters when he writes a book like Nightcrawler now. New characters will only be created under the banners of Marvel where Marvel retains the media and merchandise rights. -M I did not know this ... thanks for sharing this tidbits of information here. mrp! |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 18:15:53 GMT -5
I'm not thinking sales are the reason for the cancellation. If that were so I'd assume they'd cancel it asap and not pay for a handful more issues to be produced. Just dead stop, no conclusion. I am pretty sure there won't be a real conclusion when it actually ends anyway, because it's not actually ending. It's going to be some ridiculous trick where they change the title to something else because of some significant but temporary change to the series, like Hulk replacing Grimm for a dozen issues or something. Marvel isn't known for shelving A-list series, which this definitely is. When the series isn't doing whell they'll usually have Spiderman or Wolverine join the team. Which I think actually happened a while back with both characters joining the team, along with Hulk and Ghost Rider I think?
|
|
|
|
Post by Action Ace on Oct 7, 2014 18:45:40 GMT -5
That's the thing, the FF isn't profitable for Marvel. The comics don't sell enough to be profitable on their own, and Fox has the media and merchandise rights, so Marvel doesn't get that pie. On a similar note, Chris Claremont essentially confirmed at a comics panel that the X-office is no longer allowed to create new characters in the X-books because their rights for media and merchandise go to Fox under the terms of the contract, so he can only use existing characters when he writes a book like Nightcrawler now. New characters will only be created under the banners of Marvel where Marvel retains the media and merchandise rights. Marvel negotiated a bad deal with Fox. It was probably necessary to their survival at the time, but now he consequences of that deal are being felt. Marvel's creative decisions are business driven, not creative driven, not tradition driven, and not fan desire driven. It is not Marvel, it is Marvel the subsidiary/division of Disney now. What was is not what informs what is or will be. Of course the same is true not that WB has taken an active hand. DC Comics no longer exists, it is DC Entertainment now and the move to Burbank ends all vestiges of what was DC Comics. Comics are a small part of the picture that makes up these entertainment companies now. Just as GE started out as a lamp and light bulb company but is no longer that, Marvel and DC stated as comics companies but are no longer that. We see them that way through our rose colored nostalgia glasses, but that is not what they are anymore. -M Cue the "Gone With the Wind" theme music... |
|
|
|
Post by MatthewP on Oct 7, 2014 18:52:04 GMT -5
The latest issues have been selling over 28,000, which isn't huge, but I'd hope it's at least a little profitable, considering they have many titles selling less than that.
Even if it isn't profitable now, I have to think that the simple fact of the name being so well known will cause them to try again within a couple years. Just like in politics, name recognition is huge, even if the associations with the name aren't always positive. They'll come up with something to at least try to make money off a well known brand like Fantastic Four. Who knows - it might even be good. Sometimes a break can lead to some fresh thinking and a great new renaissance.
Of course, more often it leads to an insipid and pointless reboot.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dizzy D on Oct 8, 2014 3:19:35 GMT -5
That's the thing, the FF isn't profitable for Marvel. The comics don't sell enough to be profitable on their own, and Fox has the media and merchandise rights, so Marvel doesn't get that pie. On a similar note, Chris Claremont essentially confirmed at a comics panel that the X-office is no longer allowed to create new characters in the X-books because their rights for media and merchandise go to Fox under the terms of the contract, so he can only use existing characters when he writes a book like Nightcrawler now. New characters will only be created under the banners of Marvel where Marvel retains the media and merchandise rights. Marvel negotiated a bad deal with Fox. It was probably necessary to their survival at the time, but now he consequences of that deal are being felt. Marvel's creative decisions are business driven, not creative driven, not tradition driven, and not fan desire driven. It is not Marvel, it is Marvel the subsidiary/division of Disney now. What was is not what informs what is or will be. Of course the same is true not that WB has taken an active hand. DC Comics no longer exists, it is DC Entertainment now and the move to Burbank ends all vestiges of what was DC Comics. Comics are a small part of the picture that makes up these entertainment companies now. Just as GE started out as a lamp and light bulb company but is no longer that, Marvel and DC stated as comics companies but are no longer that. We see them that way through our rose colored nostalgia glasses, but that is not what they are anymore. -M That sounds really unlikely. Deadpool and Silver Surfer's rights aren't with Marvel either and there are new characters in every issue so far. |
|
|
|
Post by the4thpip on Oct 8, 2014 4:17:17 GMT -5
Well now Bleeding Cool is claiming the FF cancellation is confirmed and is indeed happening early-mid 2015-based on trade solicitations for 2015. Also looks like FF will return to its original numbering just before that "Final Issue".... BC article-M Wasn't FF canceled months ago, after Fraction left both FF and Fantastic Four in a hurry? |
|
|
|
Post by the4thpip on Oct 8, 2014 4:19:31 GMT -5
That's the thing, the FF isn't profitable for Marvel. The comics don't sell enough to be profitable on their own, and Fox has the media and merchandise rights, so Marvel doesn't get that pie. On a similar note, Chris Claremont essentially confirmed at a comics panel that the X-office is no longer allowed to create new characters in the X-books because their rights for media and merchandise go to Fox under the terms of the contract, so he can only use existing characters when he writes a book like Nightcrawler now. New characters will only be created under the banners of Marvel where Marvel retains the media and merchandise rights. Marvel negotiated a bad deal with Fox. It was probably necessary to their survival at the time, but now he consequences of that deal are being felt. Marvel's creative decisions are business driven, not creative driven, not tradition driven, and not fan desire driven. It is not Marvel, it is Marvel the subsidiary/division of Disney now. What was is not what informs what is or will be. Of course the same is true not that WB has taken an active hand. DC Comics no longer exists, it is DC Entertainment now and the move to Burbank ends all vestiges of what was DC Comics. Comics are a small part of the picture that makes up these entertainment companies now. Just as GE started out as a lamp and light bulb company but is no longer that, Marvel and DC stated as comics companies but are no longer that. We see them that way through our rose colored nostalgia glasses, but that is not what they are anymore. -M So is X-Factor not counted as an X-Book? PAD created new characters there. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 8:04:41 GMT -5
Well I suppose Claremont could be making things up when he is speaking at public appearances, but the audio for the panel is available online and he clearly states that he was old by editorial no new characters for the X-Men books. There was one clarification and that was any character produced under the banner of Marvel NOW in a book tying into a company wide story remains with Marvel, but any character created under the umbrella of the X-Men (which is what Fox has the rights to) has its rights to other media revert to Fox. It may be the contract specifically says characters created for the X-Men and characters created for the Fantastic Four instead of X-family and FF family of books. So Deadpool is not an X-Men book per se, and Silver Surfer is not the Fantastic Four book per se, so the status is those two might be a whole lot murkier. And besides, if it is a policy coming straight from Ike, common sense and rationality have nothing to do with the parameters of it.
Edit to add-contract law is still law and if we recall as CBG used to tell us every issue with one of its best columns-The Law is an Ass
-M
|
|
