Wild Card
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I'm out of my mind; But trapped inside my head!
Posts: 390
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Post by Wild Card on Nov 16, 2016 17:59:01 GMT -5
I'm a night shift cashier for both upfront and electronics. I do not just stand around by a register all night. I have a list of tasks I have to complete before 7am. I have to clean, stock, and organize as well as check people out. And that's just a summary of my tasks. I cannot stand it when someone gets mad at me because I'm not standing right at my register when they approach. So, they have to wait two seconds for me to step back up to my register? That does not give them the right to glare, snarl, or snap at me. Do I snap at them for walking towards the register and then stopping to browse the candy for five minutes making me wait when I could've used that five minutes to complete a item on my task list? No, that would get me fired. Or coached. Can't we fire customers?? Or teach them how to be a good one at least??? There I said it! Feel better! Thank you! I will try!
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Wild Card
Full Member
I'm out of my mind; But trapped inside my head!
Posts: 390
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Post by Wild Card on Nov 16, 2016 18:12:39 GMT -5
I'm a night shift cashier for both upfront and electronics. I do not just stand around by a register all night. I have a list of tasks I have to complete before 7am. I have to clean, stock, and organize as well as check people out. And that's just a summary of my tasks. I cannot stand it when someone gets mad at me because I'm not standing right at my register when they approach. So, they have to wait two seconds for me to step back up to my register? That does not give them the right to glare, snarl, or snap at me. Do I snap at them for walking towards the register and then stopping to browse the candy for five minutes making me wait when I could've used that five minutes to complete a item on my task list? No, that would get me fired. Or coached. Can't we fire customers?? Or teach them how to be a good one at least??? There I said it! From my time in retail jobs I've found a lot of Americans are terrible customers. They may not be terrible people but they are on that side of the register. Maybe it's society that's told these people they can have a chip on their shoulder when they're the customer or an inflated sense of entitlement. Have I seen lazy or incompetent workers? Yes. It's not always the customer asking too much. But many times I found it is. Like a lady I had screaming for me to call the manager on his day off because she wanted to return a half drank case of Coke because it was flat. It took you 12 cans to realize it was flat? Makes me so thankful I haven't worked in food service yet, and hopefully never will have to. Agreed! I've had a lot of regulars seem like nice people, but should any of my fellow associates or myself deny them anything they want, things get nasty pretty quick. And you're right, a few times it was someone not putting forth the effort to help the customer out, but I, myself, always out forth maximum effort to ensure that there really is no way to help. I'm not saying I'm the perfect employee, I'm far from it, but I try, because that's my job. That's what I'm paid for, that's what they beat into my head. Oh, Lord, I've had people like her. I'm so sorry you have, too. I totally agree with you there. When I began job hunting, I avoided all food service. Honestly, retail was a last resort as it were. Ford service was/is OUT.
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Wild Card
Full Member
I'm out of my mind; But trapped inside my head!
Posts: 390
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Post by Wild Card on Nov 16, 2016 18:14:25 GMT -5
I'm a night shift cashier for both upfront and electronics. I do not just stand around by a register all night. I have a list of tasks I have to complete before 7am. I have to clean, stock, and organize as well as check people out. And that's just a summary of my tasks. I cannot stand it when someone gets mad at me because I'm not standing right at my register when they approach. So, they have to wait two seconds for me to step back up to my register? That does not give them the right to glare, snarl, or snap at me. Do I snap at them for walking towards the register and then stopping to browse the candy for five minutes making me wait when I could've used that five minutes to complete a item on my task list? No, that would get me fired. Or coached. Can't we fire customers?? Or teach them how to be a good one at least??? There I said it! I've said it before, and I'm sure I will again, but everyone should be required to work at least some time in retail just so they can appreciate what people in retail have to go through. It would make them understand what it takes to give good service. YES. Everyone needs to appreciate what goes on for retailers. A lot of jobs, actually, could use this.
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Wild Card
Full Member
I'm out of my mind; But trapped inside my head!
Posts: 390
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Post by Wild Card on Nov 16, 2016 18:18:56 GMT -5
Current and former retail workers need to be reading notalwaysright.com/ regularly. "The customer is NOT always right!" Guess what I'm gonna be reading from now on!
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Wild Card
Full Member
I'm out of my mind; But trapped inside my head!
Posts: 390
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Post by Wild Card on Nov 16, 2016 18:26:40 GMT -5
I've got over 20 years in retail. What gets me more is when I am in another store, wearing a coat, pushing a shopping cart, with a list, putting things in the basket and people start asking where things are located. I tell them I have no idea and they usually say, "Oh, I thought you worked here." I may have a carabiner with multiple keys on it (well, then); but the fact that I am removing things from a shelf and putting them into my basket, crossing off a list, while wearing a coat and hat should be a pretty obvious indication that I am shopping. I discussed this with a co-manager and she opined that it's probably due to the fact that we actually make eye contact with people, even when we aren't in our own store. You are just used to it, from spending 40+ hours doing it. I spent 20 years as a bookseller, and got all kinds of strange questions. The strangest was a phone call that went: "Do you have a crown of thorns?" "Is that the title of the book?" "No, a crown of thorns, like Jesus wore...." The name "bookseller" is on the side of the building, the company is listed under bookstores, retail, in the yellow pages, and some nut thinks we carry replica religious iconography. That was a new one. I once had a person, standing in the Fiction section, in the Ks, who couldn't find Stephen King. He was standing in front of a bay that was 2/3 filled with Stephen King novels. I just stood there and swept my hand out, across the bay, ala a game show model. For a minute there, I thought I might have to read the book to them. Politics was a big problem for us and election years were a nightmare, filled with minefields. Any display of political books had us literally counting the number representing each side, so as not to appear biased one way or another; yet, someone was always offended by some book, accused us of bias and would say they would never shop here again, even as we point to books that upheld their ideology (or ignorance, in many cases). I even had someone try to bait one of my younger employees. They wanted their opinion on a specific book, obviously in a manner that didn't suggest they wanted a recommendation. The bookseller was professional and kept avoiding giving a personal opinion and only spoke in terms of other customers. That wasn't enough and the person kept pushing and pushing them, until they finally said they didn't care for the book. The person then pounced on them, verbally and started berating their opinion. i caught the latter part of the exchange as I was making my way over to intercede. I told the bookseller they were needed elsewhere, then turned to the "customer" and told them I didn't appreciate what they had just done. they feigned ignorance. i told them I overheard my employee acting purely professionally, keeping their personal feelings out of the discussion; but that you couldn't let it rest at that. I told him that my employees weren't there to serve as his verbal punching bags and that if he did it again he would be asked to leave the store. I also told him the First Amendment gives everyone the right to voice their own opinion and that they had the right to differ with his. He didn't utter another word. I had another employee who was Azerbaijani, from birth; but, grew up in Montreal, Quebec. She had a, accent; but, spoke perfectly excellent English. Her accent was actually more Quebecois, than anything else. She answered the phone politely and professionally and then burst into tears, handing it to me, as she went off. I asked the customer on the line if there was a problem and the customer said they had heard the accent and asked to speak to someone who spoke English. I told them they had spoken to someone who did and I didn't appreciate their rude comments to my employee and told them that if they had a problem with that they were welcome to take their business elsewhere. Some people think that being in the service industry makes you somehow less than them; they make it hell. then, there are the vast majority, who are perfectly polite and appreciative of the help and give a genuine thank you. Then, there are the extraordinary, who do things like bring in fresh vegetables from their garden, or baked goods; or, in the case of one regular customer, gave me the first three volumes of the IDW Terry & The Pirates collection, knowing that I was a comic history student and a fan of Caniff. Ugh, what jerks! I can't stand people like that. I'm sorry you encountered them. But, I'm glad you had those polite people, too.
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Post by hondobrode on Nov 16, 2016 23:03:16 GMT -5
It's refreshing that we're discussing comics again. Exactly, that's why I took my menstrual hygiene conundrum to the Classic Comics Covers contest. bodily functions ?
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 17, 2016 8:47:31 GMT -5
There he said it! -M Right. Eve was a hero turned into a scapegoat.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 17, 2016 15:04:48 GMT -5
I hate it when I'm frying a burger, some winged insect decides to kamikaze straight into the frying pan. Burn you little Mofo. *gets new burger* Thats just a garnish here.
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Post by Lolatadatodo on Nov 17, 2016 15:47:40 GMT -5
Hmm.What is tone policing about?
1. That the only productive conversation is calm conversation.
2. That conversations are "debates", with two or more sides being presented calmly, equally, and neutrally.
But some topics don't have equal sides, and some viewpoints don't have to be met neutrally.
3. That conversations must drive towards solutions, and that emotionality is a hinderance towards solution-finding.
Discussions can also be for exploring the extent and limits of a topic or situations, for letting off steam, for finding community, and for feeling less alone.
And tone policing is often paired with other silencing or manipulative tactics.
Tone policing + Gaslighting
"It's really hard to continue this conversation given your out-of-proportion anger."
Tone policing + Conditional support
"I'd be a lot more willing to support your cause if it wasn't always a giant pitchfork mob."
Tone policing + Paternalism
"Why don't you calm down so we can discuss this like adults?"
Reverse Tone policing
"It's so refreshing to meet an activist like you, who isn't constantly manufacturing outrage."
"No matter how I talk about an issue, someone's going to tell me to calm it down."
Why does tone policing happen?
It allows a person to regain control over a conversation that is going in a way that makes them uncomfortable by framing the speaker as overly emotional and therefore unreasonable.
Whether used intentionally or not, tone policing allows people who hold privilege to avoid the discomfort caused by being exposed to the very real emotional fallout of oppression and discrimination.
But these conversations aren't meant to be comfortable. We're discussing real, dangerous, structural things that make lives worse for entire groups of people.
If it makes you feel uncomfortable, the thing to do isn't to try to get us to talk about it differently -the thing to do is to help us stop it from happening. 1. I LOVE that site. She puts up some of the BEST articles. Very, very informative, and typically, very truthful and well written. From the same site (different article):So, How Can I Tell If I’m Experiencing Gaslighting?One of my biggest motivations for writing this piece is that I had gone my entire life being gaslit by parents and partners alike. It had gotten to the point that I questioned the validity of all my responses to violence, questioned whether or not I was capable of knowing when I was being abused or not, and had begun to think that maybe every instance of abuse I’d experienced really was all in my head. But then I was told about gaslighting – and everything started to zoom into perspective for the first time in a very long time. So, how can you tell if this is happening to you? Here are some questions that you can ask yourself. 1. Do You Question the Validity of Your Memories and Experiences?Gaslighting puts you in a position where you don’t trust what you remember or what you experience. Thus, one of the biggest red flags that you’re experiencing gaslighting is that you’re quick to question or outright dismiss your memory of a situation. If you are in an involuntary habit of second guessing things that you remember, especially memories that involve abuse or hurt, you have most likely been put in a position where you have been conditioned to second guess yourself. 2. Are There People in Your Life Who Actively Discredit Your Memories and Experiences?Gaslighting is the process of others conditioning you into distrusting your own sense of reality.There are many phrases that you may hear over and over that have led to you distrusting yourself, such as: “You’re too sensitive.” “You never remember things correctly.” “How would you know? Your memory is awful.” “You’re always making something out of nothing.” “You weren’t right about this last time.” “You can’t even remember [where you put your keys/where you parked the car/what you had for breakfast]. Why should I trust your memory of this?” “You don’t even know what abuse is.” (Or “You have never seen real abuse.”) If people in your life are using phrases like these ones to convince you that you’re wrong about what you remember and how you feel, you may be experiencing gaslighting. 3. When You Call Someone Out on Hurtful or Abusive Behavior, Are They Quick to Dismiss Both You and the Situation?Another way of belittling someone’s experiences and memories is to outright dismiss claims of hurt or abuse.This includes diverting the conversation, ignoring what you’re saying, and refusing to engage in a conversation about things that have hurt you.Some red flag phrases for this dismissive behavior are: “Why do you always have to bring this up?” “I’m not dealing with this nonsense right now.”“I [worked all day/am tired/have more important things to deal with] and don’t have time for this sh!t.”“You’re ruining my night.” “Shut up. Nothing happened.” In fact, words aren’t the only way to dismiss someone. Scoffing, eye rolling, smirking, laughing, and removing themselves from the room and the conversation are other ways that people can show disregard for your feelings and needs. 4. When You Try and Bring Up Hurtful or Abusive Behavior, Do They Immediately Turn It Around and Play the Victim?Another way to manipulate someone into thinking that they’re not experiencing harm or abuse is to constantly turn the conversation towards the abuser, making it seem like you are doing harm by even bringing up what’s hurting you. If someone in your life cannot (or will not) let you speak to your experiences, and instead insists on turning it into a conversation about themselves, the conversation is not a healthy one. Some red flag phrases for this tactic are: “You always make me out to be the bad guy.” “Constantly bringing stuff like this up makes me feel bad/is hurtful to me.” “I’m actually the one hurting.” “You don’t know what abuse is. Saying that I’m abusive is hurtful to me.” “Pretending I’m hurtful/abusive makes you the bully.” If these phrases are a constant in your life, if you feel like you’ve been conditioned into mistrusting your own memories and experiences, you have most likely been the victim of gaslighting.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 17, 2016 23:12:43 GMT -5
Those Marvel adventures in Star Wars, Spider-Woman and Nova and his finale of Flash were still great to me and he showed off wonderful sequential storytelling while keeping the heroic stars as heroically posed and fighting in unique stylistic form and vigor that was compelling to me at least. Speaking specifically about the Star Wars stuff, Infantino's impeccable skill with telling a story through sequential art was definitely still fully intact, no doubts there. But I never much cared for his overly angular and awkwardly posed figures, nor his willful (yep, willful) neglect when it came to accurately depicting the various spaceships from the Star Wars franchise. I might even go further and say that, in my humble opinion, Infantino's highly stylized art hurt the series' sales. There are many times later on in the run where readers would note on the letters page that they used to buy the book back in the late '70s, but dropped it because they disliked Infantino's artwork...only to come back on board when the likes of Walt Simonson or Ron Frenz were the artists. If you look at the sales figures for Marvel's Star Wars, you'll see that the book's sales peaked in 1978 and 1979, and then steadily declined. Those peak years were in the middle of Infantino's tenure on the book and also when interest in SW among fans was building to fever pitch. But, while fandom's love of all things SW continued to escalate with the release of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, the comic book slowly but surely dropped off in commercial terms. Of course, my claim that Infantino's art hurt the book's sales is based entirely on circumstantial evidence, but that's definitely my gut feeling. I think declining sales had less to do with Infantino and more to do with the uniqueness wearing off. Things had calmed down a bit, after the initial movie release and the film was mostly out of theaters, so you settled down into more hardcore fans. I felt the series kind of peaked with the climax of the Baron Tagge storyline, as Archie was then turning his sights on the Empire adaptation. Also, I think fans wanted more Han than Luke (nothing concrete; just seemed to be a character that made the stories more interesting). Also, you had a lot of other series stealing Star Wars' thunder, including Micronauts and X-Men, which weren't bound by restrictions from outsiders (well, Micronauts; but, they seemed to let Marvel do whatever they wanted). That said, there were people who didn't like how Infantino was off model and how angular things were. I didn't mind, too much, though it drove me a little nuts that so much tech was off-model. I preferred Al Williamson and Carlos Garzon; but, Infantino was more dynamic in his stories and I remember them as being more lively. I loved Walt's brief forays into the early run and wished he had been the regular artist. I think he would have done that series up a treat, working with Archie.
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Post by berkley on Nov 18, 2016 0:00:08 GMT -5
I always disliked Infantino's art at Marvel in the 70s and avoided comics he worked on.
OTOH, I love some of the covers he did at DC in the 60s - but I'm never sure how much of that was due to Infantino and how much to Murphy Anderson, who inked most of them.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,215
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Post by Confessor on Nov 18, 2016 11:29:07 GMT -5
That said, there were people who didn't like how Infantino was off model and how angular things were. I didn't mind, too much, though it drove me a little nuts that so much tech was off-model. I preferred Al Williamson and Carlos Garzon; but, Infantino was more dynamic in his stories and I remember them as being more lively. I loved Walt's brief forays into the early run and wished he had been the regular artist. I think he would have done that series up a treat, working with Archie. Totally agree about preferring the Williamson/Garzon art to Infantinos. I'm sure you already know this, but Walt Simonson did become the regular artist on Star Wars from issues #49 to #66, with David Michelinie writing. However, Simonson did get the chance to draw one of Archie Goodwin's scripts, in Star Wars issue #50. Simonson drew part three of that double-length issue, while Williamson and Garzon drew parts 1 and 2 -- so it's sort of the best of both worlds. If you haven't read it, you should!
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Post by Lolatadatodo on Nov 18, 2016 19:44:43 GMT -5
I have experienced this before; including with intimate partners (I'm not getting into that here), but also with an old therapist of mine. He would just constantly ask me, "Are you sure?" and would even tell me "That's not what you said last session" and worse. He would word them in way though, that I often didn't quite understand at first, but it would just stick with me all week. Implications of being "too imaginative" or "too sensitive". I have never been spoken to or asked these things before or since from any other psychologists. I am not delusional and have no history of it. It went on for three years until I finally just completely broke down. I was still a teenager at the time, so I mean how much more vulnerable can you be? I think Gaslighting, along with tone policing, is one of the most common forms of abuse. And it doesn't even have to happen with family or significant others. It can happen with friends, co-workers, professionals (like your experience), and even just people you deal with everyday in other areas. I do find it horrible that a therapist would do this to you. That is incredibly abusive. Did you realize it as a teenager, or was it not until you became an adult that you figured out that he was gaslighting you. I had an ex who used to do that to me all the time.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 18, 2016 20:29:03 GMT -5
I think Gaslighting, along with tone policing, is one of the most common forms of abuse. And it doesn't even have to happen with family or significant others. It can happen with friends, co-workers, professionals (like your experience), and even just people you deal with everyday in other areas. I do find it horrible that a therapist would do this to you. That is incredibly abusive. Did you realize it as a teenager, or was it not until you became an adult that you figured out that he was gaslighting you. I had an ex who used to do that to me all the time. I was convinced that it was my fault at the time. That I wasn't communicating or remembering things the right way. I don't think I really understood exactly what had happened until years later. I was in therapy for other reasons and I became less healthy by going there. An older person would've got out of there sooner. I had a normal, much more supportive psychologist afterwards fortunately.That much at least is something to be glad of.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 18, 2016 22:57:36 GMT -5
That said, there were people who didn't like how Infantino was off model and how angular things were. I didn't mind, too much, though it drove me a little nuts that so much tech was off-model. I preferred Al Williamson and Carlos Garzon; but, Infantino was more dynamic in his stories and I remember them as being more lively. I loved Walt's brief forays into the early run and wished he had been the regular artist. I think he would have done that series up a treat, working with Archie. Totally agree about preferring the Williamson/Garzon art to Infantinos. I'm sure you already know this, but Walt Simonson did become the regular artist on Star Wars from issues #49 to #66, with David Michelinie writing. However, Simonson did get the chance to draw one of Archie Goodwin's scripts, in Star Wars issue #50. Simonson drew part three of that double-length issue, while Williamson and Garzon drew parts 1 and 2 -- so it's sort of the best of both worlds. If you haven't read it, you should! No, I'm aware; I mean more when Archie was the regular writer, through the Baron Tagge stuff and his other stories. I think he would have really jazzed it up and been more faithful and been as dynamic as Infantino, without the visual quirks (or, at least, cooler quirks).
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