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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 11, 2015 14:07:46 GMT -5
Except Frank Miller is a very different guy than Stan Lee, I mean for all the love I have for Stan he's always been more circus barker than writer so yes, absolutely take what he says with a shaker of salt. But Frank has never been that kind of a guy, he's always been passionate about his level of control so if he says it's his baby and he's proud of it I see no reason to doubt him. Now, that doesn't mean I'll like the story as I didn't care for his last outing(which I waited until my library had in order to read it) but I see no reason to doubt his word. Yes but according to Frank, everything he does is the greatest thing ever. When he wrote Robocop II and III these were the stories he always wanted to tell and they were head and shoulders above anything he had done in comics because he finally had the freedom to do things his way...and the Hollywood shill speak flew from his mouth in buckets (and for me that has been part of the Miller mystique from the start-his belief he is superior and infallible in what he does)-don't get me wrong, I like lot of what Miller has done throughout his belief and passion what he does is his best work ever each and every time and his faux-sincere shilling of it was tired for me back int he 80s and while he may be a different guy than Stan, those self-congratulatory words are just as empty. -M Like I said, it's no guarantee that it will be good but it's not as if he's just phoning it in and rubber stamping it for a pay check. Good or bad this is something he's fully involved with it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 14:11:28 GMT -5
Yes but according to Frank, everything he does is the greatest thing ever. When he wrote Robocop II and III these were the stories he always wanted to tell and they were head and shoulders above anything he had done in comics because he finally had the freedom to do things his way...and the Hollywood shill speak flew from his mouth in buckets (and for me that has been part of the Miller mystique from the start-his belief he is superior and infallible in what he does)-don't get me wrong, I like lot of what Miller has done throughout his belief and passion what he does is his best work ever each and every time and his faux-sincere shilling of it was tired for me back int he 80s and while he may be a different guy than Stan, those self-congratulatory words are just as empty. -M Like I said, it's no guarantee that it will be good but it's not as if he's just phoning it in and rubber stamping it for a pay check. Good or bad this is something he's fully involved with it. Except he is neither scripting the issues nor drawing them, he basically was an "idea man" who passed off the idea and who is now doing some covers and spin-off stuff, but the main book is much more an Azzarello/Kubert production than a Miller hands on project. -M As a PS, in his intro to Criminal Vol. 2 Frank even hinted that he doesn't trust anyone to carry out his ideas and anything he cared about he would do himself, and noted how lucky Bru was to find a collaborator like Phillips who could execute his vision. So if Frank was being honest there, he either surprisingly trusts Azzarello and Kubert to execute his vision, or it's not really important to him. No way of knowing which, or if Miller wasn't genuine in the intro. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Nov 11, 2015 14:15:06 GMT -5
Stan hasn't given anyone reason to expect something creative from him since his Moebius collaboration, and even that is only remembered for hte art... Even with his latest work, Miller has manage to be polarizing. Again here, he claims his job is also to shock and provoke. For all its flaws, Holy Terror did that. Before that DKSA as well as you still hear many people claiming their love for its provocative nature. and right before, 300 may have been his most accomplished work ever, despite the terrible movie. So yes, I still give him credit. I also remember reading his CBJ interviews back in hte day, and he showcased an obvious intelligence in most of his claims, when I have never thought that hearing or reading Stan. Stan is more like a pleasant and hard-working Bob Kane to me (even though I've never read any ITW rom Kane).
As in any art medium fans hate change : when they identify something they like they want it to remain the same forever. Artists work the oposite way. If he cares, Miller is still evolving, experimenting, and one thing is for sure, he doesn't need the dough. If he still is writing and drawing despite his bank account and his poor health, that's because it's still one of his drive. Or at least I have reason to hope so.
In the end, it'll be what it'll be, I tend to dislike the junior Kuberts, but, it's all about the storytelling, the plot and the characterisation as I'm sure the art will if not to my taste beprofessional enough for me to not be too distracting.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Nov 11, 2015 14:19:05 GMT -5
As a PS, in his intro to Criminal Vol. 2 Frank even hinted that he doesn't trust anyone to carry out his ideas and anything he cared about he would do himself, and noted how lucky Bru was to find a collaborator like Phillips who could execute his vision. So if Frank was being honest there, he either surprisingly trusts Azzarello and Kubert to execute his vision, or it's not really important to him. No way of knowing which, or if Miller wasn't genuine in the intro. I hear you, but I'm sure we can assume he trusts Klaus Janson, and he's stated before that Azzarello has been a close friend of his for over 10 years, so why not. anyhow, a new Frank Miller project is such a rare thing that I see no reason why not to be curious about it if not excited. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 11, 2015 14:29:18 GMT -5
Like I said, it's no guarantee that it will be good but it's not as if he's just phoning it in and rubber stamping it for a pay check. Good or bad this is something he's fully involved with it. Except he is neither scripting the issues nor drawing them, he basically was an "idea man" who passed off the idea and who is now doing some covers and spin-off stuff, but the main book is much more an Azzarello/Kubert production than a Miller hands on project. -M As a PS, in his intro to Criminal Vol. 2 Frank even hinted that he doesn't trust anyone to carry out his ideas and anything he cared about he would do himself, and noted how lucky Bru was to find a collaborator like Phillips who could execute his vision. So if Frank was being honest there, he either surprisingly trusts Azzarello and Kubert to execute his vision, or it's not really important to him. No way of knowing which, or if Miller wasn't genuine in the intro. That's not how it sounds at all from the interviews with Azzarello, Kubert and Miller. Kubert has said that he often did panels several times as he needed to go back and forth with Miller on how he envisioned the scene, Azzarello said that Miller was a fierce task master and would shred his pages and Miller has talked about enjoying writing with Azzarello so it goes beyond, "Here are some ideas, check please!" to a true collaboration. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 14:58:12 GMT -5
I hope this is good and those that buy it get their money's worth, but nothing so far gives me faith in that. I hate to see projects fail and companies blunder along with poor decision after poor decision, but it happens more often than not these days. DC is putting a lot of eggs in this basket, and pre-orders are high, if it goes bad, it will be the retailers stuck holding the bag though-Diamond and DC will have gotten their money form pre-order sales, but if it tanks because of poor reception, the retailers will have spent money on comic they can't sell and their the ones who can lest afford the loss. For me, there are a lot of things about this project screaming Danger Will Robisnon! for retailers and readers alike. If it's good, great, I'm wrong and people get a good book, not one I have any interest in, but that's cool, not every comic is for me. But the way I am seeing it is not "it will be a good comic but not to my tastes:" but it will be a disappointment for those who have the mot at risk on it.
-M
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 11, 2015 15:13:36 GMT -5
I hope this is good and those that buy it get their money's worth, but nothing so far gives me faith in that. I hate to see projects fail and companies blunder along with poor decision after poor decision, but it happens more often than not these days. DC is putting a lot of eggs in this basket, and pre-orders are high, if it goes bad, it will be the retailers stuck holding the bag though-Diamond and DC will have gotten their money form pre-order sales, but if it tanks because of poor reception, the retailers will have spent money on comic they can't sell and their the ones who can lest afford the loss. For me, there are a lot of things about this project screaming Danger Will Robisnon! for retailers and readers alike. If it's good, great, I'm wrong and people get a good book, not one I have any interest in, but that's cool, not every comic is for me. But the way I am seeing it is not "it will be a good comic but not to my tastes:" but it will be a disappointment for those who have the mot at risk on it. -M It could very well just that, as I said that Miller is fully involved isn't a promise of quality, I'm just saying that from all accounts he is very involved in the project and not just signing off on it and cashing a check from DC. Good or bad, disastrous for dealers or a boon to them, none can truthfully say but to say that Frank's not behind this is a flat out falsehood. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Nov 11, 2015 15:30:37 GMT -5
Plus, if we're interested in this is only because of his involvement. I don't really see how that is a bad thing for retailers : history has proven that the worst thing for the industry is readers buying issues out of habit and not reading them.
If it's good, readers will spread the word and the marker mihgt grow a little, if it's bad and sales quickly fall, htat will force the publisher to do better next time.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Nov 11, 2015 15:34:02 GMT -5
I was wondering, how is that comic not for you anyways? For me, if you tell me that Scooby Doo Team Up is good, then it's for me, potentially, same with Archie. The only issue I have with anything beyond good or bad is time and money, but I'd be happy to read a Transformer title if suddenly they made it totally awesome for pure storytelling and plot reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 15:53:05 GMT -5
I was wondering, how is that comic not for you anyways? For me, if you tell me that Scooby Doo Team Up is good, then it's for me, potentially, same with Archie. The only issue I have with anything beyond good or bad is time and money, but I'd be happy to read a Transformer title if suddenly they made it totally awesome for pure storytelling and plot reasons. It's not for me because... -I generally do not enjoy the Kubert kids art after around 2000 -I find reading anything Azzarello has written a slog, his prose just kills me and I haven't enjoyed anything he has written beyond the contributions of the artists he worked with -Miller hasn't done anything to excite me since the early Sin City stuff and I have regretted the purchase of more of his stuff than not in the last decade -Dark Knight Reuturns was a seminal piece of comics history, groundbreaking because of where it was produced in context to the industry and because it had something to say-the follow up for me didn't have anything to say and felt like it was trying to chase past glory rather than do anything new-this feels like more of the same to me so track record of stuff I don't enjoy by creators, not liking the last installment, and overpriced package all result in a book that is not for me, even for free, as I think the time spent reading it would be better spent elsewhere and bring me more pleasure/entertainment; that's what makes this a comic not for me. -M |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Nov 11, 2015 16:05:53 GMT -5
very good reasons then, some I actually share. But if in the end this was actually really good and you could read it for free?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 16:09:34 GMT -5
very good reasons then, some I actually share. But if in the end this was actually really good and you could read it for free? I would have to think it would be better than any number of things I already have in cheque to read or watch (opportunity costs and all that). -M |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Nov 11, 2015 16:15:39 GMT -5
Fair enough. I'm sure I would also have already on the reading pile much more interesting stuff to read, but I confess I might fall for the hype, at least for one issue (I haven't finished DKSA yet, and I bought it off the stands).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 17:44:41 GMT -5
I might get #1 but I can't believe there are at least 18 versions of it, compared to New 52 Batman #1 which had only 4 at last count.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 11, 2015 17:57:00 GMT -5
I might get #1 but I can't believe there are at least 18 versions of it, compared to New 52 Batman #1 which had only 4 at last count. The number of variants is just stupid, but I suppose they wouldn't do that if there wasn't a market for it. |
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