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Post by tarkintino on Sept 17, 2019 18:12:40 GMT -5
Has anyone in this thread mentioned Eerie Publications? Many years ago, I browsed the some of the bagged issues (never seeing the interiors), and nothing screamed "bad cover" like a lower-rent publisher so obviously trying (and failing) to ape the endless, classic painted covers of magazines such as Famous Monsters of Filmland, Creepy or Eerie. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Sept 17, 2019 22:27:56 GMT -5
 McFarlane...just no. Poor composition, substituting "style" (if you can call it that) over competence. Like Liefeld and Jim Lee, a part of a certain generation overrated this mess, but he was one of the worst Spider-Man artists. This cover is just a small taste of that charge. MacFarlane has certainly made some questionable storyteliing choices in his day, but I like this one. He's really doing a good job leading the eye around the cover in a half-circle, moving from foreground to background images in a fairly complicated pattern that he makes easy to follow, and also gives a sense of height and vertigo. I especially like how the glider smoke - moving downwards - gives a sense of motion to the Spider-Man figure. There's a lot going on here, a lot of moving parts, but the image is clear and easy to follow. It does do the John Romita Sr. "What's Spideys web attached to WELL I GUESS I DON'T CARE LALALALALALALALALALALALALA" thing which bugs me, but this shows a lot of competence in both design and storytelling. |
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Post by tonebone on Sept 18, 2020 14:45:52 GMT -5
Never understood the appeal of Humerto Ramos   |
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Post by profh0011 on Sept 18, 2020 15:29:54 GMT -5
"Worst Comic Book Cover Of All-Time!"HOW can anyone narrow it down to just ONE? 
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Post by profh0011 on Sept 18, 2020 16:09:51 GMT -5
Len Wein took over the editing duties from Jack C. Harris and a run of excellent covers began, by and Dave Cockrum, Ed Hannigan, Howard Chaykin, Gil Kane and the book's penciller, Dan Spiegle.  At both Marvel and later at DC, Len proved to me he was a FAR-better editor than he ever was a writer! I recall how for 4 solid years, with Roy Thomas as Marvel editor, about 99% (or more) of the covers were by Gil Kane. but as soon as Len took over, you had covers by the likes of Cockrum, Chan, Gulacy, and even whoever happened to be doing the interior on a book (like Gene Colan on TOMB OF DRACULA). |
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Post by profh0011 on Sept 18, 2020 16:20:33 GMT -5
I like Kirby but...this is...no.  His left arm looks like it is positioned all wrong, like it is out of its socket. Gotta love Kirby, and I DO, but his art suffered in later years. To me, the position of the arm is the ONLY thing on this cover I might have any problem with at all.
Might be the INKER... in any case, something that could have easily been fixed before it went to the printer.
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Post by profh0011 on Sept 18, 2020 16:33:28 GMT -5
It's my understanding that Kirby developing some kind of degenerative eye condition in his later life that led to some of the wonky perspective issues at the end of his career. I can't seem to find where I read that, but I've seen it mentioned a couple times. I think about how the first 2 issues of "CAPTAIN VICTORY" were inked by Mike Royer, who had a habit of inking EXACTLY what was there. And those 2 issues were some of the BEST-looking Kirby art from that entire period.
Later, there were issues inked by Mike Thibodeaux, who struck me as amateurish... and Greg Theakston, who had a BAD habit of NEEDLESSLY making arbitrary changes to Kirby's art at the ink stage. I've seen examples of Kirby pencils side-by-side with Theakston inks, and the difference is SHOCKING. At the pencils stage-- NOTHING wrong. The inks-- distorted, "cartoony". (This was on the DC "SUPER POWERS" mini-series.)
Earlier, on Kirby's 3rd (and final) run of "CAPTAIN AMERICA", the run started out fine with Frank Giacoia inks, then became rather stilted under D. Bruce Berry.. and then looked HORRIBLE when Frank Giacoia came back. But when Mike Royert took over, there was a noticable improvement. At the same time, John Verpoorten did fabulous work with Kirby on THE ETERNALS, and Royer did equally or better great work on BLACK PANTHER, MACHINE MAN and DEVIL DINOSAUR.
It took me decades to figure out what went on, on CAPTAIN AMERICA. At the exact same time, Mike Esposito was MURDERING his old pal Ross Andru's work on AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. At one point, I read an interview with Joe Giella who talked about how his friend Frank Giacoia had this really bad habit of getting an inker's equivalent of "writer's block"-- getting a job and freezing up, unable to work on it until the last minute, when he'd have to ask for UNCREDITED help to get it done. Tone of "Giacoia" jobs were partly or entirely inked by Giella, whose style was completely different. And it turns out, in the mid-70s, Esposito filled in UNCREDITED for Giacoia, right at the point where editor Len Wein told Esposito he "needed to start spending more time at the drawing board and less at the race track" (a quote I heard directly from Dave Cockrum). Those HORRIBLE-lookng CAPTAIN AMERICA issues with inks credited to Giacoia, I now realize, were MURDERED by Mike Esposito.
Just to say, a lot of "bad" Kirby art, Kirby had nothing to do with.
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Post by tonebone on Sept 18, 2020 16:35:15 GMT -5
Frank Miller... whatever became of that guy? |
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Post by kirby101 on Sept 18, 2020 16:55:18 GMT -5
It's my understanding that Kirby developing some kind of degenerative eye condition in his later life that led to some of the wonky perspective issues at the end of his career. I can't seem to find where I read that, but I've seen it mentioned a couple times. I think about how the first 2 issues of "CAPTAIN VICTORY" were inked by Mike Royer, who had a habit of inking EXACTLY what was there. And those 2 issues were some of the BEST-looking Kirby art from that entire period. Later, there were issues inked by Mike Thibodeaux, who struck me as amateurish... and Greg Theakston, who had a BAD habit of NEEDLESSLY making arbitrary changes to Kirby's art at the ink stage. I've seen examples of Kirby pencils side-by-side with Theakston inks, and the difference is SHOCKING. At the pencils stage-- NOTHING wrong. The inks-- distorted, "cartoony". (This was on the DC "SUPER POWERS" mini-series.) Earlier, on Kirby's 3rd (and final) run of "CAPTAIN AMERICA", the run started out fine with Frank Giacoia inks, then became rather stilted under D. Bruce Berry.. and then looked HORRIBLE when Frank Giacoia came back. But when Mike Royert took over, there was a noticable improvement. At the same time, John Verpoorten did fabulous work with Kirby on THE ETERNALS, and Royer did equally or better great work on BLACK PANTHER, MACHINE MAN and DEVIL DINOSAUR. It took me decades to figure out what went on, on CAPTAIN AMERICA. At the exact same time, Mike Esposito was MURDERING his old pal Ross Andru's work on AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. At one point, I read an interview with Joe Giella who talked about how his friend Frank Giacoia had this really bad habit of getting an inker's equivalent of "writer's block"-- getting a job and freezing up, unable to work on it until the last minute, when he'd have to ask for UNCREDITED help to get it done. Tone of "Giacoia" jobs were partly or entirely inked by Giella, whose style was completely different. And it turns out, in the mid-70s, Esposito filled in UNCREDITED for Giacoia, right at the point where editor Len Wein told Esposito he "needed to start spending more time at the drawing board and less at the race track" (a quote I heard directly from Dave Cockrum). Those HORRIBLE-lookng CAPTAIN AMERICA issues with inks credited to Giacoia, I now realize, were MURDERED by Mike Esposito. Just to say, a lot of "bad" Kirby art, Kirby had nothing to do with.
That's some interesting stuff. Thanks. It explains why Gioccia was so good sometimes and so mediocre other times. |
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Post by tonebone on Sept 18, 2020 16:58:33 GMT -5
Ugh! Sue's costume. The jackets. And why is the Thing wearing a helmet? Forget that stuff... what's with the Photoshop Edit/Fill/Pattern background? I hope someone's PS card got taken away that day! Sadly, they probably got a medal. |
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Post by profh0011 on Sept 19, 2020 16:55:15 GMT -5
I remember a company called Triumphant Comics that released some books that were actually individually numbered for collectability. It had the most amateurish art you can imagine. This can only exist in an era when , because the Death of Superman sold 3 million copies, people began to see comics like an investment akin to gold or silver. I guess it was about 15 years ago, the last convention I went to (in Philadelphia), I met artist "Francesco", a really nice guy who'd done some work for them. I told him how they'd given me an absurdly-rushed deadline for inks, the pages had to be sent in by a certain Friday.... because, it turns out, they were planning, in advance, to FILE FOR BANKRUPTCY the following Monday.
He said, "I guess I was lucky. At least I got paid."
Yes. The entire company was set up AS A TAX-DODGE SCAM.
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