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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 14, 2021 18:46:07 GMT -5
I read FF #21 to #24 pretty quick. But I got sidetracked because the next two issues - #25 and #26 - are (in my mind) part of a six-part story arc that I call “Get the Hulk!”
So I have to read Avengers #1 to #4 before I get back to the FF.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 19, 2021 19:00:04 GMT -5
I read FF #27 last night. So that’s the last of the George Roussos issues and it’s time for some short comments before I move on to the Chic Stone issues.
First off, I love the issues inked by Roussos! (Except for #27.) Kirby and Lee were on a roll! I think they had figured out how to do a story in only 22 or 23 pages, and they don’t have the problems with pacing that bother me in some of the earlier issues (especially #16). And when they had a story with the Hulk AND the Avengers, they wisely expanded it into a second issue!
I think Roussos also benefits from getting assigned some stories that fit his style really well. Dick Ayers figures look like very flexible rubber toys. Chic Stone’s panels look like stained glass windows. George Roussos looks like he’s inking with a few strands of wet spaghetti. Everything looks kind of grimy, like there’s dust or mud everywhere ... but look at what happens in these stories! They are fighting in the jungle in #21! They are underground in the Mole Man’s caves in #22! In #23, they are covered in ionic dust (or whatever). And the Hulk/Avengers two-parter is one messy, grubby, dusty struggle in the streets of Manhattan!
#21 - Nick Fury and the Hate-Monger! Such a great story! The bad guy is HITLER!
#22 - I’ve never been much of a Mole Man fan but this one’s OK. Also Sue’s developing powers were a great idea! The Mole Man can’t figure out why he can’t push the button and destroy the surface world! Argh! How frustrating!
#23 - One of my favorite Dr Doom appearances. I love Handsome Harry, Bull Brogin and Yogi Dakor. And Sue’s new powers save the day! Again!
#24 - The Infant Terrible! Roussos’s style doesn’t add much to this one, but it’s such a great treatment of the out-of-control alien-child story (already presented several times in comic-book sci-fi) that I still like it a lot.
Here I got a bit side-tracked. I consider FF #25 and #26 to be the last two stories of an arc that starts with Avengers #1 and runs through Avengers #2, #3 and #4 before concluding in the FF. I call this six-part story “Get the Hulk!” and I read it fairly regularly. So I took a break from FF and read the first four issues of The Avengers.
“Get the Hulk!” was just as awesome as it usually is!
Which brings me to FF #27. Doctor Strange doesn’t help this comic book a bit! Namor’s obsession with Sue gets kind of old after a while. It’s not as inexplicable as some of those Jane Foster stories. But it’s still kind of jarring to see Namor acting the way he does over some landlubber. And #27 is the worst! Ugh! Get over it, dude!
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 27, 2021 13:46:33 GMT -5
I love the inking on the Chic Stone FF issues! (Also on the Avengers, The X-Men and Thor.) Every panel looks like a stained glass window at the Comic Book Church!
But some of the stories are nothing to write home about!
In the 1990s, I bought the Marvel Masterworks volumes for FF #1 to #50 and Amazing Spider-Man #1 to #40. It was the first time I’d read five or six of the Spider-Man issues and the first time for about a third of the FF issues. It was very nice to have ALL the issues of both these runs in a convenient format. My plan was to read both runs once a year.
I read Spider-Man #1 to #40 a bunch of times over the years! Sometimes two or three times a year!
Fantastic Four #1 to #50, well, I think I read that run three or four times in the 1990s and then never read the whole run again (until this year). (I read #1 to #10 and #21 to #26 every so often.) The major stumbling block is the issues from #28 to #35. Some of these aren’t really that bad but there’s a fatal lack of inspiration here. #31 and #32 are pretty bad! Some of the other issues are readable but just barely, and there’s so many dumb scenes! When the basic story is really good, the dumb stuff is kind of charming. But when you’re scratching your head about the whole story, the dumb stuff can be fatally dumb.
Let’s start with the one great story from this era - Fantastic Four Annual #2! I love this one! We start with the origin of Dr. Doom! It’s awesome! And then we get the story where Doom’s association with Latveria is first revealed and he plots against the FF from the Latverian embassy in N.Y. It’s great! It came out about the same time as FF #30.
Now, on to FF #28 to #35!
For the most part, I find myself being a little more generous with these stories than I was in the 1990s. For one thing, I haven’t read these stories in 20 years or more! And I haven’t worn these out. I’ve read a lot of these early issues of the FF 20 or 30 times or more over the years, but some of these Chic Stone-inked stories I’ve probably read only three or four times total.
#28 - The FF and the X-Men vs. the Puppet-Master and the Thinker! Somehow the Thinker has guessed what Professor X looks like! So he gets the Puppet-Master to make one of his radio-active puppets and they control him and he makes the X-Men attack the FF! For some reason! It doesn’t bother me like it did when I was a kid ... but it’s still not very good.
#29 - The Red Ghost and his apes kidnap the FF to the moon for a ridiculously complicated revenge plan! I didn’t like it as a kid, but this one has grown on me! The Red Ghost is SUCH A NUT! 🥜 This is one is pretty audacious in not making any damn sense, but it gets extra points because I do like the Red Ghost and his nutty apes, and also for the Chic Stone inking! It looks great! And the Watcher shows up, looking the creepiest ever!
#30 - The first appearance of Diablo! Here’s another one I like a lot better now.
#31 - Ugh! This just makes no sense and the Chic Stone inking can’t save it! The Mole Man’s city-block elevators make no sense and the subplot with Sue and Johnny’s father and their tragic family secrets is just ridiculous. The Avengers guest appearance is a waste of time!
#32 - And #32 is worse than #31! The alleged superiority of the Skrulls and their galactic empire is not coming through on the page very well. I will give Jack and Stan credit for killing Dr. Storm so he could never appear again!
#33 - The first appearance of Attuma! I used to like this one but there’s just too much to dislike! Dorma betrays Atlantis because Namor was mean to her and everybody just waves it away because she’s just a girl! Women! Can’t live with them, can’t punish them for treason! Reed’s spray that allows the FF to operate underwater ... and also allows Johnny to flame on in the ocean ... it’s just too stupid! And also the way the FF saves Namor’s skin and he somehow never suspects it. This story is a silly mess.
#34 - This is the one where master financier Mr. Gideon hatches a fantastic plot to destroy the FF on a bet with other financiers so he can have all the money in the world. It reminds me a bit of businessman Lex Luthor. I much prefer Gideon to businessman Lex because Gideon was only in one issue whereas businessman Lex has gotten very old and tired after 35 years. I never much liked this story before but I didn’t mind it too much this time. I have no trouble thinking a businessman like Gideon would act like this. And maybe come close to success. However, I’m a bit dubious about the ending where he has a change of heart and suddenly cares about his family. That seems a bit far-fetched.
#35 - The return of Diablo and the first appearance of Dragon Man! Here’s another one that I used to think was kind of dumb but I’m liking it a lot more after reading it recently. The FF goes to State University and has some adventures! Peter Parker on a college visit! Some students mention that Jayne Mansfield was on campus recently! A bottomless lake! Reed and Sue get formally engaged! Awww!
Well, this run from #28 to #35 held up much better than I thought it would!
I’m kind of excited about the next few issues! With the introduction of the Frightful Four, the trend toward multi-part stories and one of the best Dr. Doom appearances, the series finally begins to hit its stride as Kirby and Lee get a better grasp of what works and what doesn’t!
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Post by Hoosier X on Mar 8, 2021 20:42:54 GMT -5
I finished FF Annual #3 yesterday. And I was working my way through FF #36 to #43.
FF #36 is where it all clicks for me! Yes, the best days are ahead of us, but the run from #36 to #43 takes the groundwork of the first 35 issues and puts it all together in a wonderful run of adventure, treachery, drama and romance!
The best thing is the multi-part stories. Kirby and Lee’s creations now have a much better opportunity to grow and breathe! Aside from #37, there’s really only two stories in FF #36 to #43, the conflict with the Frightful Four in #36, #38 and #41 to #43 and a great battle with Dr. Doom in #39 and #40!
The inking is all over the place! Joe Sinnott will be along in #44, but until then we’ve got Chic Stone in #36 to #38, Frank Giacoia in #39, some nice inking from Vince Colletta in #40 to #43 and some other inking from Colletta in FF Annual #3. Except for the annual, I like the art in this run a lot! I almost forget that Wally Wood is inking guest star Daredevil in #39!
#36 introduces the Frightful Four! We’ve seen some of these faces before. The Wizard and Paste-Pot Pete (now going by The Trapster) are Human Torch villains from Strange Tales, but they’ve fought the Thing and I think one or both of them had a run-in with Sue at some point in the Torch’s series. The Sandman has fought the Torch a couple of times by now, once in Strange Tales and again in Spider-Man #19 just a few months previously. They need a fourth so the Wizard recruits ... Madam Medusa, who joins their vendetta for some reason. (I must have read why she was away from the Great Refuge and eager to join a bunch of criminals like the Wizard and his gang, but I can’t think of it now. Hopefully I’ll come across it soon.) It’s Medusa’s first appearance and thus, in a way, the first hint of the Inhumans!
I love #36! I bought this as a kid for about $6 (around 1980) and it’s always been a favorite. The Frightful Four are so awful! They beat the FF and then attach the anti-gravity discs and send them floating into the stratosphere! And because Alicia tried to help, they send her to her death as well! That really struck me reading it this time! I wonder if Alicia found it hard to make nice with Medusa after she became an FF ally.
Hey, Alicia. You remember Medusa, don’t you?
Of course I do. Hi, Medusa. Wasn’t it hilarious that time you and your gang covered us with anti-gravity discs and let us float up in the sky to suffocate from lack of air? What ya been up to?
I’ve read #36 a bunch of times! I never get tired of it.
In #37, the FF go to the Skull Galaxy to get revenge for the death of Franklin Storm. I don’t like the Franklin Storm issues, but I like #37 quite a bit. Chic Stone provides expressive inking over Kirby’s Skrull Home Planet Civilization so it’s nice to look at and it’d kind of a neat story.
The Frightful Four return in #38 and perpetrate more mischief, this time in the form of a bomb that takes away the FF’s powers. Another great battle between the two FFs ... but this time they leave Alicia alone!
Dr Doom returns and Daredevil guest-stars in #39 and #40 ... and the FF have to fight Doom without their powers! And not only that, Doom has taken over the Baxter Building and is using Reed’s inventions against them! At the end, Reed has to turn Ben into the Thing again to defeat Doom. It works, but Ben doesn’t think it was worth it and he abandons the FF.
Which sets up FF #41 to #43, as Ben becomes the pawn of the Frightful Four and the two teams fight it out in a house in the New Jersey countryside! For three issues! I didn’t think too much of them when I read them for the first time in the 1990s, but the Colletta inking has grown on me and now I love these issues. So well-choreographed with all eight combatants tramping around in this house! I wonder if the owners gave the Wizard his deposit back!
That leaves Fantastic Four Annual #3, which I like a lot more than I used to. Reed and Sue are getting married and Doom has a ray that makes every super-villain want to attack the Baxter Building. It’s chaotic as heck. It’s a fun issue but it sure looks like a rush job from inker Colletta!
Now ... looking forward to the Sinnott era!
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Post by Hoosier X on Mar 15, 2021 10:15:16 GMT -5
I read The Fantastic Four #44 to #51 over the last few days. I haven’t read these for a while and it was so much fun!
But ... they’re a bit of a mess. I had remembered that the Inhumans issues are kind of sloppy. On the other hand, the so-called Galactus trilogy is kind of sloppy too!
Still there’s a lot of great moments here! The visuals can’t be beat. The one-by-one introductions of the Inhumans. Especially Lockjaw! The Great Refuge! The Silver Surfer! The first look at Galactus.
And I get a kick out of the way The Watcher looks like a giant baby.
Galactus should say: “Are you, like, the baby from 2001: A Space Odyssey? And you grew big instead of growing up?”
Oh! Sick burn!
FF #51 is, of course, a classic.
And those last two issues have the “Johnny goes to college” subplot which unfortunately never went anywhere. I like them. They’re kind of fun.
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Post by Hoosier X on Mar 15, 2021 11:36:09 GMT -5
I’m very excited about moving on from here! I’ve read all the issues coming up, but it’s been a while, and I’ve never read them in order as a “run.” I’ve had the Marvel Masterworks issues for FF #1 to #50 for decades and I’ve read them sequentially a few times. But I’ve never done it for the rest of the Kirby run. I have recently purchased the Epic Collection volumes for these issues and I will probably get started on FF #52 later today!
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Post by Graphic Autist on Mar 15, 2021 14:19:17 GMT -5
I’m very excited about moving on from here! I’ve read all the issues coming up, but it’s been a while, and I’ve never read them in order as a “run.” I’ve had the Marvel Masterworks issues for FF #1 to #50 for decades and I’ve read them sequentially a few times. But I’ve never done it for the rest of the Kirby run. I have recently purchased the Epic Collection volumes for these issues and I will probably get started on FF #52 later today!
I spent last Spring reading the entire Lee/Kirby run on FF. Most I read via the Marvel Epic Collection line, and the rest I read digitally. It was a lot of fun, and I hope you enjoy it.
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Post by Hoosier X on Mar 23, 2021 14:47:42 GMT -5
I’m up to Fantastic Four #60!
There are so many subplots extending through the whole run that it’s almost like one story! The Silver is moping around after being banished to Earth. The Human Torch and Wyatt Wingfoot are trying to figure out how to breach the impassable barrier keeping the Inhumans trapped in the Great Refuge! (And of course, the Inhumans are trapped inside and we get to see what they are up to in almost every issue.) The Sandman and the Wizard pop up for a few panels here and there. Also, Dr. Doom, the Black Panther, Klaw, Prester John, Alicia, Reed, Sue, Ben ... and one page with the Watcher!
The Black Panther story flows through #53 and #54, with a follow up bout with villain Klaw in #56. The Human Torch and Wyatt Wingfoot encounter Prester John in #54. The Silver Surfer’s fight with Ben in #55 is a warm-up for his meeting with Dr. Doom, who steals his cosmic power in #57 and then threatens the FF and the world in #58 to #60. (One of the best Dr. Doom adventures ever! Maybe THE best!)
I’m enjoying the hell out of these!
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Post by Farrar on Mar 23, 2021 19:32:50 GMT -5
I’m up to Fantastic Four #60! There are so many subplots extending through the whole run that it’s almost like one story! ... Yes, that period of the FF comic was like reading one long, dense Russian novel, a tapestry with lots of different characters and story strands. It really made the comic stand out for its time. It's certainly a huge cast for one book but many of those characters--the Inhumans, the Panther, Wyatt Wingfoot--were introduced in the FF with an eye towards spinning them off into their own features sooner rather than later. But as we know Goodman couldn't get the restrictive distribution deal with Independent News (National) renegotiated in 1965-6, so no new superhero books at that time. The result was that the new characters had to remain in the FF book; this just added to the texture and richness of the FF series. It's also why some subplots change course suddenly or are dropped, such as Wyatt Wingfoot's story with the college football team that we see in #51.
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 1, 2021 11:06:48 GMT -5
I’m at FF #65 so I’ll be commenting on FF #61 to #67 in a few days. But I realized I forgot about FF Annual #4 when I commented on #52 to #60.
I used to have Annual #4 and I loved it because it had FF #25 and #26 reprinted in one easy-to-carry-around comic book.
The original material? Well, nice art. But the story is not so great. I barely remembered the details when I started reading. But I DID remember the feeling of disappointment as I got a few pages into it.
The Golden Age Human Torch returns ... and dies. Marvel brought him back for a one-issue battle gimmick as old and new Human Torches fight each other. Ho hum.
The original Human Torch as an android living among humans during the 1940s could have added so much to the 1960s Marvel Universe. Here he’s just a throwaway character in a fair-to-middling annual with great art and cool reprints.
Throwing away this opportunity was creative malpractice.
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Post by Farrar on Apr 2, 2021 10:11:06 GMT -5
...The Golden Age Human Torch returns ... and dies. Marvel brought him back for a one-issue battle gimmick as old and new Human Torches fight each other. Ho hum. The original Human Torch as an android living among humans during the 1940s could have added so much to the 1960s Marvel Universe. Here he’s just a throwaway character in a fair-to-middling annual with great art and cool reprints. Throwing away this opportunity was creative malpractice. At the time Carl Burgos was suing Marvel for rights to his character, the original Human Torch (and the fact that Marvel was using the name for a new character with the same powers Johnny Storm). By plugging the original Torch into that 1966 Annual, Marvel renewed/strengthened their legal hold on that character. And as you noted, they promptly kill the Original Torch off; some have hypothesized that it was a kind of "f-you" to Burgos. According to Burgos's daughter, he was so upset by what was going on with Marvel he destroyed all his comics and art in 1966. This is found in the interview with his daughter that appears in Alter Ego #49, and elsewhere too. Very sad.
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Post by MDG on Apr 2, 2021 10:43:37 GMT -5
...The Golden Age Human Torch returns ... and dies. Marvel brought him back for a one-issue battle gimmick as old and new Human Torches fight each other. Ho hum. The original Human Torch as an android living among humans during the 1940s could have added so much to the 1960s Marvel Universe. Here he’s just a throwaway character in a fair-to-middling annual with great art and cool reprints. Throwing away this opportunity was creative malpractice. At the time Carl Burgos was suing Marvel for rights to his character, the original Human Torch (and the fact that Marvel was using the name for a new character with the same powers Johnny Storm). By plugging the original Torch into that 1966 Annual, Marvel renewed/strengthened their legal hold on that character. And as you noted, they promptly kill the Original Torch off; some have hypothesized that it was a kind of "f-you" to Burgos. According to Burgos's daughter, he was so upset by what was going on with Marvel he destroyed all his comics and art in 1966. This is found in the interview with his daughter that appears in Alter Ego #49, and elsewhere too. Very sad. Around this same time, Burgos was working for Myron Fass, including on Fass's version of Captain Marvel. What happened first, I'm not sure, but plenty of room for bad blood all the way around. (Fass didn't call his company M.F. Enterprises for nothing .)
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Post by Farrar on Apr 2, 2021 12:09:41 GMT -5
Around this same time, Burgos was working for Myron Fass, including on Fass's version of Captain Marvel. What happened first, I'm not sure, but plenty of room for bad blood all the way around. LOL, right, the infamous "Split!" Captain Marvel , who debuted in early 1966. Prior to this, Stan had given Burgos some Marvel work earlier in the 1960s, a Johnny Storm Human Torch story (which included cameos by Stan and Burgos and gave Burgos in-story credit for being the "first to draw the Torch 'way back in the Golden Age of comics!") as well as a few Giant-Man & Wasp stories. But evidently Stan didn't think Burgos's style fit 1960s Marvel, so that was it in terms of Burgos's work for Marvel. In comparison, Bill Everett was given steady work and was grateful for it (so, he didn't make a fuss over Sub-Mariner); but for Burgos--and Joe Simon-- it was a different story. (Fass didn't call his company M.F. Enterprises for nothing .) I know, right? Always brings to mind the Odd Couple TV series; in a couple of episodes we see the outside of Felix Unger's photography studio, with the sign "FU Enterprises."
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 4, 2021 11:33:25 GMT -5
I read FF #61 to #67 and Annual #5 and this seems like a good place to stop and make a few comments.
The Sandman is back, with his iconic dumb costume. Then Blastaar shows up! What a nut he is! The Sandman and Blastaar team up in #63 and take on the FF!
These three issues are a lot of fun!
And then the Kree are introduced in #64 and #65 as the Fantastic Four fight Sentry 459 and Ronan! These two issues are pretty good.
I’m not so enamored of #66 and #67. It’s nice that Alicia gets to have her own adventure, I guess.
FF Annual #5 is one I have mixed feelings about. Everybody guest stars! The Inhumans! Black Panther! And they fight ... Psycho-Man! It’s a decent comic to read and admire the art but ... Psycho-Man is kind of a crap character. It’s like Kirby was purposefully coming up with bad ideas rather than make any more good characters for Marvel. Psycho-Man is bad enough to be a Green Arrow villain.
I’m taking a short break from FF to get caught up on Spider-Man ( I’m trying to read FF and Spider-Man issues that came out the same month) and I decided to finish the Super-Villain War in Iron Man before going ahead with FF. But that should only be a few days and I’ll be back to FF very soon.
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Post by Farrar on Apr 7, 2021 8:47:27 GMT -5
FF Annual #5 is one I have mixed feelings about. Everybody guest stars! The Inhumans! Black Panther! And they fight ... Psycho-Man! It’s a decent comic to read and admire the art but ... I wasn't crazy about the art in this Annual. Giacoia's inking in the FF Annual wasn't bad, I do like his linework...but here for the FF it looked kind of old-fashioned, after all those slick and polished Sinnott issues.
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