|
Post by brianf on Dec 20, 2020 16:16:21 GMT -5
I have all the FF essential volumes, I think I'll join up too. Been too long since I read those classics.
|
|
|
Post by MDG on Dec 20, 2020 20:30:13 GMT -5
People interested in doing this might want to listen to the Marvel by the Month podcast from the beginning.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Dec 20, 2020 21:37:18 GMT -5
I’ve been listening to a podcast called Make mine Marvel. It goes from the first FF book and covers all the Marvel books that came out every week. It has about 135 episode, I’m on episode 30. It’s good stuff.
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Dec 26, 2020 20:40:07 GMT -5
I read Fantastic Four #1 a few days ago. I've read it so many times! But not lately.
My first issue of Fantastic Four was #165 in late 1975 or early 1976, and I don't think I missed an issue until around #295. Boy, let me tell you, I loved the FF! And so many reprints floating around those days to help you get an idea what you had missed in those 15 years that had passed since #1. I think that within a year and a half of picking up #165, I had read reprints of #1, #3, #4, #5 and #6 through Marvel Treasury Editions, Bring on the Bad Guys and a stray issue of Marvel Collector's Item Classics I had picked up somewhere.
And of course, Origins of Marvel Comics, that I got in a trade in 1976.
I remember being fascinated with Fantastic Four #1! It's awesome … and terrible! Even a 12-year-old kid could see how dumb it was … yet how amazing! I read it all the time over the next few years.
I don't know what all there is to say about it at this point. The cover is WHACK! Let's start with Sue. The monster burrowed through the Earth, leaped out of the ground and grabbed her tenderly without her noticing, and so quickly and unexpectedly that she wasn't able to turn invisible fast enough! And somehow the monster found time to throw ropes at Reed, thus ensnaring him a in tangle of hemp long enough for him to brag about how quickly he'll get out.
It's an easy target. The whole think is an easy target. Look at the first page of the FF's origin. We have to beat the commies to the moon! Because the moon … has valuable minerals? Will be a staging point for missile attacks? Because JFK said so? And then Sue calls Ben a coward! Well! What choice does he have now? Sue called him a coward! And Sue has to go because she's Reed's fiancée and she has to keep an eye on him … or something. And Johnny's tagging along with Sue. So it's settled!
And they get past the security (SHIELD must be in charge) and manage the take-off without any help from outside the rocket and head in the general direction of the moon.
Whatever, comic book!
But I love every weird dialogue balloon and every lumpy figure of the Thing and Mole Man's tale of persistence until he has radar sense and control of hordes of subterranean monsters. And Sue riding around invisible in a taxi cab, and Johnny melting a roadster and burning a hole in the garage ceiling, and Reed's pipe, and Ben making a new manhole, and the Valley of Diamonds and all the other crazy stuff.
It's never boring and it's hard to put down. And when you are done, you say "That was dumb. Are there more? Keep them coming!"
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Dec 27, 2020 11:05:28 GMT -5
Last night I read Fantastic Four #2.
I first saw this in a paperback that reprinted the first six issues. Late 1970s. I had read all the other issues reprinted therein, and normally I wouldn’t have spent my money on a book of reprints if I had read all but one of the stories, but I really wanted to read FF #2.
I loved it then and I love it now.
It’s dopey as hell but it’s not quite so relentlessly dumb as the first issue.
Highlights include: the Skrull imitating Reed plunges the city into darkness by flipping one switch! The FF hiding in a hunting lodge and the Thing throwing a bear head. Sue’s brilliant plan for escaping from some dumb soldiers! Reed tricking the Skrull fleet commander by defacing some dumb monster comics. (And aren’t all those things real in the Marvel Universe anyway?) The Thing turns back into Ben for a few panels. And the fate of the Skrulls hypnotized into believing they are cows!
These very early issues of the FF are so chaotic and fun.
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Dec 28, 2020 10:29:00 GMT -5
I’m up to FF #3!
I haven’t read this one nearly as many times as the other issues in the first six. Very early on as a collector, I got Marvel Collector’s Item Classics #2, with FF #3 and Spider-Man #4, and I never really liked FF #3 very much. The Miracle Man is a terrible villain and his hypnotism gimmick leaves a lot to be desired. There were so many problems with this story to 13-year-old Hoosier X. His hypnotism worked through television? His hypnotism was so powerful that his victims remained hypnotized for days? People not present when the Miracle Man seemed to animate the Monster from Mars statue would walk on the scene and say: What are you talking about? The statue is still here! And do on. Through nearly every scene.
At this point, it may have been fifteen years or more since I last read it, and I’m inclined to be lenient. It’s not simple hypnotism! It’s either a mutant illusion-casting power or mind-control magic that the Miracle Man learned in the Himalayas. And that makes the story work a lot better.
It’s also kind of refreshing to read an early FF story that I haven’t pored over a hundred times! Of course, I’ve read it a few times, but I was never obsessed with it like I was with most of the rest of the first six issues. I don’t have all the dialogue and the panel layouts memorized.
And there’s much to love here. The FF at the Miracle Man’s stage show and the challenge to the Thing. Then that great scene with the FF lounging around at home - the first time we’ve seen anything like this - and Sue makes a grand entrance with the costumes she’s designed! The Thing’s suit is great! Although he rips it up pretty quickly.
And the Fantasticar! And the diagram of the building where they live. This is quickly becoming the FF we all know and love.
And then the big running battle with the Miracle Man and the Monster from Mars! The theft of the atomic tank! Sue hides on the getaway vehicle! But she’s detected by the Miracle Man’d dogs! Reed, Ben and Johnny give chase in an antique car and Reed has to substitute as a tire! (OMG! That is so dumb!)
And Johnny saves the day, which makes Ben jealous and he drives Johnny away so he can hang out in the Bowery in the next issue where he will make an astonishing discovery!
|
|
|
Post by kirby101 on Dec 28, 2020 10:53:15 GMT -5
FF#1 and #2 were still very much in the Monster and SciFi mold. The trick ending in #2 could have been in any Strange Tales issue. #3 felt like a Challengers story. I think it wasn't until #4 that Stan and Jack started feeling they had a real super hero book on their hands (though they still gave us the monster whale in #4). Of course the FF always stayed more of a SciFi book than any of the others they did.
|
|
|
Post by MDG on Dec 28, 2020 11:00:15 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jan 2, 2021 14:37:29 GMT -5
I am still reading the early issues of the FF! But I put off writing about #4, #5 and #6 until I had read all three and I could comment on them as a group.
It’s a sweet little trilogy. The return of Namor. The first appearance of Dr Doom. And Namor and Doom team up in #6.
I read reprints of #4 and #6 very early on because I started collecting when the Marvel Treasury Editions were readily available at the newsstand. I got MTE #11 (with #4) brand new and I ordered MTE #2 (with FF #6) soon after.
I love both these comics so much! The Torch burning the beard off a random hobo who turns out to be Namor! He renews his war on humanity! Giganto is summoned to level Manhattan! The Thing’s boots! Namor falls in love with Sue for some reason.
And then in #6! Sue pushes her way through the crowd like she owns the place. Johnny burns Sue’s photo of Namor. Doom and Namor team up. Doom betrays Namor and hi-jacks the Baxter Building into space! Namor defeats Doom with his electric eel power!
Whatever, FF #6!
It’s so easy to pick out some dumb stuff, but I love these issues anyway.
I was never quite so enamored of FF #5. Despite the great Sinnott inking! I first read it in Bring on the Bad Guys, which I got as soon as it was published. Doom’s plan just makes no dang sense! I also used to hate the idea that the Thing went back in time and created the legend of Blackbeard! No no no! I had gone through a phase where I read all about pirates, and I knew Blackbeard was a real guy with a real past and a fascinating history! Stupid FF #5!
That part doesn’t bother me at all now, reading it 45 years later. In the Marvel Universe, the Thing went back in time and became Blackbeard! No problem!
It’s still pretty dumb. I don’t know why I can wave away the dumb stuff in the other issues and yet consider #5 such a failure. I know it’s not very consistent.
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jan 4, 2021 21:10:52 GMT -5
I read FF #7 last night. I’ve read it a lot, but not nearly as much as the earlier issues. I didn’t get a copy until later, so that was past the time when I read comics over and over again dozens of times.
Still, I’ve read FF #7 more than a few times! I love it! Kurrgo is such a nut! He’s the ruler of the Pekinese People! And he’s very pleased with himself!
I also love the bit where each member of the FF has a weird fantasy about how much they hate speaking formally in public. I had forgotten that scene.
And so Kurrgo kidnaps them to Planet X and asks them to save the Pekinese People because they are all about to be killed by a meteor! And there’s only two rocket ships!
Reed figures it out and shrinks the whole population so they can fit on one rocket ship! Except Kurrgo! Who plans to remain large-sized so he can continue to be the ruler!
His plan doesn’t go do well and he is killed when the meteor hits. But he got better and appeared in the early 1970s in Marvel Feature, with the Thing, the Hulk and the Leader!
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jan 25, 2021 21:45:43 GMT -5
I got kind of busy, but I’m still reading the early issues of the FF, just not as fast as I had intended. I decided to comment on them in groups,
I put #8 to #12 together because I think the whole vibe changes with #8 with the addition of Alicia Masters. And then ... several issues with the return of the best villains, a major throwback to the “monster/suspense” tales (#11), and a guest appearance with The Hulk.
And #13 is a good place for a new grouping to start because the next few issues are a sequence of super-villain showcase issues.
No, it’s not a very objective way to arrange the issues.
I hate to admit that I don’t really like #8, #9 and #10. There’s some fun little sequences here and there, for sure, but this is a little run that doesn’t do much for me, Puppet-Master’s schemes just don’t seem to be leading to anything. And that whole bit with Alicia looking just like Sue (which is never mentioned again) is just dumb.
#9 has the potential to be an amusing parody of Hollywood, but that goes NOWHERE as Reed fights an unknown Cyclops monster, Johnny fights fire-proof natives and Ben fights Namor, and all the while Sue dithers about whether she loves Reed or an amphibious human hybrid who wrecked New York and teamed with Dr. Doom to kill them all just three issues ago. What’s a girl to do!
And #10 is pretty bad. It’s sometimes hard to see why Doom was such a favorite in the early days because so many of his early stories are so dumb! #5, #10 and#16 are all pretty terrible! I like #17 and #23 a lot! (And I love Spider-Man #5 so so much, even if Doom looks like some of his armor plates were put on crooked or upside-down.)
But I love #11! The Impossible Man is hilarious! And the way they defeat him, by ignoring him until he gets bored and leaves, looks like a story from Tales of Suspense or Journey into Mystery where they figure out how to get rid of a pesky alien because one of the boys in town reads books. The “reader mail” section is also fun, even if the way they defend Sue from misogynistic letters is pretty dumb.
FF #12 is another one I’m not too keen on, but I enjoyed it when I read it a few days ago. The interaction of the FF and the Hulk cast is pretty neat (But where’s Betty?), especially Johnny trying to impress Rick Jones. The problem with #12 is that it’s all set-up, and then the story gets wrapped up pretty quickly. There’s not much interaction between the Hulk and the FF. And the Wrecker is sooo lame. The FF and the Hulk look like bullies going up against the Wrecker, who looks like Kirby’s comic book Don Knotts.
I love FF #13! This is where it gets good! I’ll be reviewing #13 to #20 in a group, hopefully in a week or so.
|
|
|
Post by Farrar on Jan 31, 2021 17:22:52 GMT -5
... I hate to admit that I don’t really like #8, #9 and #10. There’s some fun little sequences here and there, for sure, but this is a little run that doesn’t do much for me, Puppet-Master’s schemes just don’t seem to be leading to anything. And that whole bit with Alicia looking just like Sue (which is never mentioned again) is just dumb. ... It's the Puppet Master who remarks on their resemblance, probably due to their light-colored hair and fine features. Reed sees through it pretty quickly, or at least once the fighting stops and Alicia speaks. Sue and Alicia's superficial resemblance is used in 2005's Marvel Knights 4 #12: {Spoiler: Click to show} The story has Alicia impersonating Sue. Neither the Psycho- Man nor the readers are made aware of this until several pages into the story.
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Feb 10, 2021 13:48:50 GMT -5
I finished FF #20 and I was going to write up a few comments on FF #13 to #20, but then I remembered FF Annual #1, and I feel like it’s a better fit with the group that’s mostly Dick Ayers inking than with the next batch, #21 to #27, which is all George Roussos inks.
I should be able to get to the annual today and write it up in the near future.
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Feb 12, 2021 14:04:26 GMT -5
A few comments about FF #13 to #20 and the first FF Annual:
FF #13 - One of my favorites of the early issues of the FF! It’s just so fast-paced and nutty! Ditko inking Kirby! The Red Ghost and the Super-Apes! The Watcher! The Blue Area of the Moon! One thing about the Masterworks bugs me a lot. The coloring! I used to have my own copy of FF #13 and Kragoff’s outfit was colored dark green. In the reprint it’s red and blue. He’s not the Red Ghost because he wears red! He’s the Red Ghost because he’s a Communist!
FF #14 - I’m not too keen on this one. The Sub-Mariner’s infatuation with Sue gets kind of old pretty quickly - for me anyway. So I have a tendency to not much like some of the Subby appearances just before Sue finally chooses Reed. It’s a worn-out trope in the early Marvels, where the women are so beautiful and enchanting that some of the villains are always coveting them and abducting them and trying to force the women to marry them.
FF #15 - This one is a lot of fun! The Thinker and his awesome android! I love the way the Thinker has everything calculated to a fraction of a second! “In 17 3/4 seconds, a monkey will burn down a shack and destroy the evidence!” What a nut!
FF #16 - Here’s another one I don’t like very much. The story spends too much time on introducing Ant-Man and setting up the story, and there’s only four or five pages left when we get to the Micro-World! Another of those mediocre Dr. Doom stories from the early days.
FF #17 - This is more like it! Dr. Doom is back, seeking revenge now! And he sends some dopey multi-colored balloons to follow the members of the FF around in order to humiliate and intimidate them. Then they face death traps on Doom’s flying fortress!
FF#18 - The Skrulls return! The Skrull emperor sends the Super Skrull to Earth to get revenge on the FF for turning the previous batch of Skrull operatives into cows! So much fun!
FF #19 - The FF goes back in time to fight Rama-Tut! Another rollicking round of Silver Age silliness.
FF #20 - The Watcher returns to warn the FF of ... the Molecule Man! He’s kind of like Element Lad with bad acne. I love this story, despite the duuumb ending.
FF Annual #1 - I first read this in the late 1970s when I picked up FF King-Size Special #8, which reprinted the first annual. I’ve always liked this one a lot. Namor has been reunited with his people. It’s the first appearance of Dorma! And Warlord Krang! It was a great new direction for Namor, much better than the Namor-Sue romance (which we aren’t done with, unfortunately). It’s almost 40 pages long and it’s stuffed to the brim with Atlantean banana shenanigans!
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,049
|
Post by Confessor on Feb 13, 2021 3:26:14 GMT -5
FF#13 is one of my favourite early issues too. Not least because the art is by the Silver Age dream team of Jack Kirby on pencils and Steve Ditko on inks.
|
|