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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 17:11:35 GMT -5
I know little about The Shadow, other than what I’ve read. I did read one comic featuring him. And I’ve seen the 1994 movie, which was solid but hardly spectacular.
The latest issue of retro sci-fi magazine Infinity had an article about The Shadow. Assuming what I read was correct - some articles don’t exactly appear accurate if some letters are to go by - it stated that the Shadow started off as a narrator of Detective Story Hour, a CBS radio show. As many have written, The Shadow no doubt clearly influenced the likes of Batman. I think it’s peculiar and interesting that he started life as a humble narrator.
The article stated that Orson Welles, who voiced The Shadow at one point, had to commandeer an ambulance in order to attend the recordings due to running the Mercury Theatre. It was mentioned that at the time, the law in New York City was that you didn’t need to be sick to travel in an ambulance.
I also didn’t realise that the character had two alter egos, Kent Allard in print, Lamont Cranston in other media.
Judex, a French character created for a 1916 silent film, was mentioned as an inspiration for The Shadow.
The 15-part 1940 serial had the character face a villain called The Black Tiger, who could turn invisible. The Shadow lost his ability to turn invisible in that serial as Columbia deemed that a fight between two invisible opponents wouldn’t be entertaining.
Most interesting in the article was mention that Sam Raimi had pitched an idea to Columbia not only for a Shadow film, but a movie that would feature other pulp heroes like Doc Savage, so that a shared film universe could be built up.
Is all of the above accurate? I ask because last month, the magazine did a feature on The Phantom, which may not have been the most accurate after people here debunked it. More than once, including in the letters pages of the magazine, there have been clarifications and corrections.
On a wider note, any Shadow thoughts? A product of his time who couldn’t possibly hope for longevity in the 2020s? Or a character, influential in many ways, that deserves more support, hype, exposure and time/care from whoever holds the licence now? (And who does hold the licence?)
What was your first experience of The Shadow? When I was 9, at Christmas, I got a Batman book (must share a pic one day) which had a chapter on the characters that influenced Batman. Then, after that, I just saw the film - and read one comic years later. Perhaps I should read more of his exploits.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 18:31:36 GMT -5
When I was in jr. high (7th grade iirc) I had an English teacher who would play Shadow radio drama episodes on days before school vacations or if we were last period on a Friday and that was my first exposure to the character (and still my preferred medium for Shadow stories). Didn't encounter the character again until uppeclassmen years of high school when the Chaykin mini came out ('86 or so, about 4-5 years after my 1st exposure), which got a lot of hype, but which I was only meh on. The first in print Shadow story I read and really liked was the Kaluta OGN Hitler's Astrologer. I've seen the movie, tracked down and read some Shadow comics and some of the novels collecting pulp stories, but to me the character still works best in radio dramas despite having a very distinctive look. Of all the major "pulp" characters of the 30s era (Doc Savage, Avenger, Spider, Conan, et. al) he has the most distinctive look, but the one I have the least affection for. I like the character, I don't love it.
-M
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 23, 2023 21:52:56 GMT -5
In NYC, they used to have a radio station called WMCA that broadcast old Shadow shows. I taped a bunch of them but I don’t think it was Orson Welles that did the voice acting. A few Years later they came out with Shadow #1 from DC.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 23, 2023 23:08:28 GMT -5
I know little about The Shadow, other than what I’ve read. I did read one comic featuring him. And I’ve seen the 1994 movie, which was solid but hardly spectacular. The latest issue of retro sci-fi magazine Infinity had an article about The Shadow. Assuming what I read was correct - some articles don’t exactly appear accurate if some letters are to go by - it stated that the Shadow started off as a narrator of Detective Story Hour, a CBS radio show. As many have written, The Shadow no doubt clearly influenced the likes of Batman. I think it’s peculiar and interesting that he started life as a humble narrator. The article stated that Orson Welles, who voiced The Shadow at one point, had to commandeer an ambulance in order to attend the recordings due to running the Mercury Theatre. It was mentioned that at the time, the law in New York City was that you didn’t need to be sick to travel in an ambulance. I also didn’t realise that the character had two alter egos, Kent Allard in print, Lamont Cranston in other media. Judex, a French character created for a 1916 silent film, was mentioned as an inspiration for The Shadow. The 15-part 1940 serial had the character face a villain called The Black Tiger, who could turn invisible. The Shadow lost his ability to turn invisible in that serial as Columbia deemed that a fight between two invisible opponents wouldn’t be entertaining. Most interesting in the article was mention that Sam Raimi had pitched an idea to Columbia not only for a Shadow film, but a movie that would feature other pulp heroes like Doc Savage, so that a shared film universe could be built up. Is all of the above accurate? I ask because last month, the magazine did a feature on The Phantom, which may not have been the most accurate after people here debunked it. More than once, including in the letters pages of the magazine, there have been clarifications and corrections. On a wider note, any Shadow thoughts? A product of his time who couldn’t possibly hope for longevity in the 2020s? Or a character, influential in many ways, that deserves more support, hype, exposure and time/care from whoever holds the licence now? (And who does hold the licence?) What was your first experience of The Shadow? When I was 9, at Christmas, I got a Batman book (must share a pic one day) which had a chapter on the characters that influenced Batman. Then, after that, I just saw the film - and read one comic years later. Perhaps I should read more of his exploits. The bulk of that is relatively accurate; never heard the story about Welles commandeering an ambulance but it fits his persona. It was originally the narrator of the detective show and it was sponsored by or based on a Street & Smith pulp magazine. People kept asking news vendors for the magazine with "that Shadow fella." Stret & Smith commissioned writer/magician Walter Gibson, under the pen name of Maxwell Grant, to create the first Shadow pulp novel. Gibson had already written Harry Blackstone Sr's adventure novels and was a respected pulp writer. He created the mythos and eventually wrote 282 of 325 published stories, including two a month, at one stage. He was one of the highest paid writers in the pulps. Gibson's Shadow was Kent Allard, who took over the role of Lamont Cranston from the real guy, using it as a cover identity. he worked through a series of agents, led by Harry Vincent, a man the Shadow saves from a suicide attempt and tells him he owes him his life. There was cab driver Moe "Shrevy" Shrevnitz, who often acts as transport for The Shadow and the others. Burbank is a radio operator who keeps up communications with The Shadow and the other agents, via radio and pneumatic tubes, with messages running to and from the Shadow's Sanctum Sanctorum and his agents. Margo Lane was created for the radio series and grudgingly added to the pulps, by Gibson, but wasn't as big of a figure in them as the radio dramas (where she was played by Agnes Moorehead, with Welles as The Shadow/Lamont Cranston). There were several others, including Dr Roy Tam, a Chinese-American scientist. Moe, Margo, Dr Tam and Burbank were seen in the 1994 film. Suprisingly, Harry vincent was not used in the film. I was aware that there had been a radio show; but, my first intro to the character was a Batman story, back when DC had the rights. I did later have the hardcover collection of the O'Neil and Mike Kaluta stories, which are great. Also had the Hitler's Astrologer GN, with O'Neil and Russ Heath, which is good. The Dark Horse comics, with Gary Gianni on art, are fantastic. Wasn't so wild about the Chaykin mini or the subsequent series. The Shadow Strikes series was more in keeping with the original character. I have the serial version, which is okay, but it is more generic serial action, than The Shadow. The Spider was adapted better to the movie serial format. There was also a series of short films. From 1931-1932, there were 6, with Frank Readick, who voiced him on radio, voicing the hero. Rod La Rocque did two films, The Shadow Strikes and International Crime, in 1937 and 38. The serial came out in 1940 and was followed by low budget films, from Monogram Studios, with Kane Richmond (who played Spy Smasher, in the Republic serial, which influenced Raiders of the Lost Ark): The Shadow Returns, Behind the Mask, The Missing Lady. In 1957, a tv pilot, The Invisible Avenger, was shot. Then, there was the 1994 Alec Baldwin film, directed by Russell Mulcahy (Highlander). I have PDFs of all of the pulps; but have only read The Living Shadow, the first one. I had trouble finding the paperback reprints, of those, before. I have read more Doc Savages and The Spider (have all of Doc on PDF). Shiwan Khan, the villain in the 1994 film, was a recurring villain, in the pulps. Judex predates the character by nearly 15 years. He was the hero of a Louis Feuillade serial, largely inspired by Alexandre Dumas' The Count of Monte Cristo. Feuillade had directed fantomas and Les Vampires, but wanted to specifically do a hero, after some criticism and censorship issues over glorifying villains. He wears a slouch hat and black clothes and cape and uses various agents, operating from a secret lair. Doctor Strange's Sanctum Sanctorum was cribbed from the Shadow's HQ, along with the window to the Spirit's Wildwood Cemetery home. Batman swiped a lot from the Shadow, as Bruce Wayne was heavily based on Lamont Cranston (which borrowed from Sir Percy Blakeny, in The Scarlet Pimpernel, as well as Don Diego de la Vega, in Zorro) and Batman's methods are greatly copied from the Shadow. Bill Finger was a big Shadow fan and used many elements. In the pulps, the Shadow used his girasol ring to hypnotize the weak minded and used various disguises, as well as twin Colt .45 automatics. In the film version, they used long-slide versions to make the guns look bigger, since everyone in existence used .45 or 9 mm autos, in film. Sam Raimi tried to get the rights to do a film, but they were sewn up. He created Darkman, instead, which is a very pulpy movie. He would have done a much better Shadow film, or, especially, The Spider.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 23, 2023 23:26:15 GMT -5
In NYC, they used to have a radio station called WMCA that broadcast old Shadow shows. I taped a bunch of them but I don’t think it was Orson Welles that did the voice acting. A few Years later they came out with Shadow #1 from DC. I loved WMCA. Dandy Dan Daniel, Scott Muni, Ed Baer, Gary Stevens, and the rest of the Good Guys.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 24, 2023 4:22:44 GMT -5
There was also a Shadow newspaper strip by Gibson and artist Vernon Greene that only lasted about a year. Some of it was later reprinted in .Shadow Comics, flagship title of Street & Smith's modest comic book line. The comic book began in 1940 and ran through '49, mostly as a monthly except during the war when newsprint rationing required it to be cut back to bi-monthly. Gibson and Greene provided original stories as well as the reprints for the first couple of years, mostly recycling plots from the pulp stripped to the bone to fit into ten pages (though some mid-40s issues featured months-long continued narratives). The comic book, like the radio series, gave Shadow the power of invisibility, something the pulp version never had. Shadow Comics steadily dropped in quality over its lifespan, the post-Greene artwork being notably slipshod. Gibson was unceremoniously fired from both comic book and pulp in 1946, never to return. His replacement, Bruce Elliot, was considerably less talented, even briefly giving the hero a kid sidekick, Shadow, Jr! Sales dropped precipitously over the last few years before S&S pulled the plug. There was also an 8-issue run of The Shadow from Archie Comics in 1964-65, featuring an blonde Lamont Cranston as a green tights-wearing super-hero, that is notoriously bad. I can't in good conscience recommend either of these comic book versions.
Who knows what dreck lurks in the back issue bins of men? Cei-U knows!
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Post by tartanphantom on Jan 24, 2023 8:40:46 GMT -5
There was also a Shadow newspaper strip by Gibson and artist Vernon Greene that only lasted about a year. Some of it was later reprinted in . Shadow Comics, flagship title of Street & Smith's modest comic book line. The comic book began in 1940 and ran through '49, mostly as a monthly except during the war when newsprint rationing required it to be cut back to bi-monthly. Gibson and Greene provided original stories as well as the reprints for the first couple of years, mostly recycling plots from the pulp stripped to the bone to fit into ten pages (though some mid-40s issues featured months-long continued narratives). The comic book, like the radio series, gave Shadow the power of invisibility, something the pulp version never had. Shadow Comics steadily dropped in quality over its lifespan, the post-Greene artwork being notably slipshod. Gibson was unceremoniously fired from both comic book and pulp in 1946, never to return. His replacement, Bruce Elliot, was considerably less talented, even briefly giving the hero a kid sidekick, Shadow, Jr! Sales dropped precipitously over the last few years before S&S pulled the plug. There was also an 8-issue run of The Shadow from Archie Comics in 1964-65, featuring an blonde Lamont Cranston as a green tights-wearing super-hero, that is notoriously bad. I can't in good conscience recommend either of these comic book versions. Who knows what dreck lurks in the back issue bins of men? Cei-U knows!
To add to this, the original Shadow newspaper strips were reprinted sequentially in a 13-issue run by Malibu/Eternity in 1988-89. They are somewhat difficult to find due to small print runs, but are usually quite affordable when you find them. While the interiors are in traditional (for strips) B&W, many of the covers are colored blow-ups of Vernon Greene's individual strip panels.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 9:35:48 GMT -5
There was also a Shadow newspaper strip by Gibson and artist Vernon Greene that only lasted about a year. Some of it was later reprinted in . Shadow Comics, flagship title of Street & Smith's modest comic book line. The comic book began in 1940 and ran through '49, mostly as a monthly except during the war when newsprint rationing required it to be cut back to bi-monthly. Gibson and Greene provided original stories as well as the reprints for the first couple of years, mostly recycling plots from the pulp stripped to the bone to fit into ten pages (though some mid-40s issues featured months-long continued narratives). The comic book, like the radio series, gave Shadow the power of invisibility, something the pulp version never had. Shadow Comics steadily dropped in quality over its lifespan, the post-Greene artwork being notably slipshod. Gibson was unceremoniously fired from both comic book and pulp in 1946, never to return. His replacement, Bruce Elliot, was considerably less talented, even briefly giving the hero a kid sidekick, Shadow, Jr! Sales dropped precipitously over the last few years before S&S pulled the plug. There was also an 8-issue run of The Shadow from Archie Comics in 1964-65, featuring an blonde Lamont Cranston as a green tights-wearing super-hero, that is notoriously bad. I can't in good conscience recommend either of these comic book versions. Who knows what dreck lurks in the back issue bins of men? Cei-U knows! To add to this, the original Shadow newspaper strips were reprinted sequentially in a 13-issue run by Malibu/Eternity in 1988-89. They are somewhat difficult to find due to small print runs, but are usually quite affordable when you find them. While the interiors are in traditional (for strips) B&W, many of the covers are colored blow-ups of Vernon Greene's individual strip panels. Cool. I have a random issue of this (#2) but I wasn't sure what the material being reprinted was. Thanks for the info. -M
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Post by MDG on Jan 24, 2023 10:09:39 GMT -5
I've always liked the character, but few of the incarnations live up to my ideal of it. A few of the novels and the 70s DC version are some of the best. My first exposure was a hardback that came out in '66 during the first nostalgia craze that my uncle ended up giving me in '72 or so... I was able to get it signed by Walter Gibson at a convention in '74 or so. There's a lot of good info in a book called The Shadow Scrapbook by Walter Gibson and Anthony Tollin (mainly known as a colorist for DC) During the Shadow's height of popularity in the 30s, it was coming out twice a month with a full short novel in each. Gibson said that he was not only able to keep up, but could actually write a novel a week when he was firing on all cylinders. (If he could write them fast, they are best read fast as well.)
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Post by badwolf on Jan 24, 2023 10:16:38 GMT -5
I liked the '94 film. I also read some of the 1980s series from DC by Andy Helfer and liked it. (Sad that it will probably never be collected.) I think he could work in the modern era. Moon Knight was a riff on Batman but he also reminded me of the Shadow, particularly his use of "agents" like Crawley, the lady at the diner and her kid, etc.
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Post by tartanphantom on Jan 24, 2023 10:39:45 GMT -5
I've always liked the character, but few of the incarnations live up to my ideal of it. A few of the novels and the 70s DC version are some of the best. My first exposure was a hardback that came out in '66 during the first nostalgia craze that my uncle ended up giving me in '72 or so... I was able to get it signed by Walter Gibson at a convention in '74 or so. There's a lot of good info in a book called The Shadow Scrapbook by Walter Gibson and Anthony Tollin (mainly known as a colorist for DC) During the Shadow's height of popularity in the 30s, it was coming out twice a month with a full short novel in each. Gibson said that he was not only able to keep up, but could actually write a novel a week when he was firing on all cylinders. (If he could write them fast, they are best read fast as well.)
The Shadow Scrapbook is well worth seeking out. My copy is well-loved and dog-eared from referring to it. Quite comprehensive for its time of publication (1979).
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 24, 2023 11:49:25 GMT -5
I liked the '94 film. I also read some of the 1980s series from DC by Andy Helfer and liked it. (Sad that it will probably never be collected.) I think he could work in the modern era. Moon Knight was a riff on Batman but he also reminded me of the Shadow, particularly his use of "agents" like Crawley, the lady at the diner and her kid, etc. And the Jake Lockley identity (cab driver, like Shrevy) and Steven Grant (millionaire playboy, like Cranston).
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 24, 2023 11:54:41 GMT -5
In his excellent novel, The Chinatown Death Cloud Peril, Paul Malmont depicts Gibson as having two type writers, on opposite desks, with a large supply of paper, to dash off a book, when the mood struck. I have read that Gibson was an obsessive writer, which was part of his ability to churn out the novels (and other books, particularly on magic). It also depicts him as having a private rail car, though I've never been able to verify that, as to whether that was fact or something he Malmont created to liken Gibson to the Shadow. The novel features several pulp writers, in a pulp mystery, with Gibson, Doc Savage author Lester Dent, L Ron Hubbard, Robert Heinlein, and Louis L'amour all being major characters. EE "Doc" Smith and some others appear at the White Horse, a bar that was noted as a gathering place of pulp writers. Smith, who was a chemist for a baking company, brings donuts that were baked with his flavor mixes.
Great novel, built around the death of HP Lovecraft.
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Post by MDG on Jan 24, 2023 12:17:13 GMT -5
Might as well add these to the discussion. The Kaluta is from around '74 in NYC; the Wrightson at Ithacon in the 80s or 90s.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Jan 24, 2023 12:34:38 GMT -5
I also didn’t realise that the character had two alter egos, Kent Allard in print, Lamont Cranston in other media. This is technically true, but misleading. When the character was first introduced, he called himself Lamont Cranston. It was later revealed there was a real Lamont Cranston, but he only appeared in one story, and Allard continued to call himself Cranston for the remainder of the run. If you didn't read any of the two or three stories which referred to the Allard identity specifically, the casual reader of the pulps would assume he was actually Cranston. His replacement, Bruce Elliot, was considerably less talented, even briefly giving the hero a kid sidekick, Shadow, Jr! Sales dropped precipitously over the last few years before S&S pulled the plug. There was also an 8-issue run of The Shadow from Archie Comics in 1964-65, featuring an blonde Lamont Cranston as a green tights-wearing super-hero, that is notoriously bad.
I've always assumed that Shadow Jr grew up to be the superhero Shadow, filling in for the real one when he was off on some secret mission. He was probably killed my Shiwan Khan.
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