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Post by Calidore on Oct 31, 2022 18:27:18 GMT -5
To be fair, the climax was dictated by Shooter, and was not Claremont's original climax at all (although, given what he had planned, maybe it was for the better).
Having read what was supposed to happen, yeah, I think it would have been all the worse. At least Shooter's way gave the story an earned emotional climax.
Oh, fine, I'll bite. What was Claremont's intended ending?
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Post by badwolf on Oct 31, 2022 20:18:40 GMT -5
Having read what was supposed to happen, yeah, I think it would have been all the worse. At least Shooter's way gave the story an earned emotional climax.
Oh, fine, I'll bite. What was Claremont's intended ending?
Jean would have lived but been depowered by the Shi'ar. The original story was published in a one-shot called Phoenix: The Untold Story, along with a transcript of the discussion between the various creators. This issue is included in the Dark Phoenix Saga hardcover; not sure if it is in an X-Men omnibus as well (but it probably is.)
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,709
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Post by shaxper on Oct 31, 2022 22:43:17 GMT -5
Oh, fine, I'll bite. What was Claremont's intended ending?
Jean would have lived but been depowered by the Shi'ar. The original story was published in a one-shot called Phoenix: The Untold Story, along with a transcript of the discussion between the various creators. This issue is included in the Dark Phoenix Saga hardcover; not sure if it is in an X-Men omnibus as well (but it probably is.) In addition to being depowered, she was going to be a mental simpleton, at least for the time-being.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Nov 1, 2022 11:43:54 GMT -5
In addition to being depowered, she was going to be a mental simpleton, at least for the time-being.
I don't remember that part. But she was going to be kidnapped by the Shi'Ar for eating a broccoli planet and taken to space jail. The X-Men were going to go around trying to borrow a spaceship to rescue and the Avengers and F4 would be like, no way, then Magneto turns up and HE has a spaceship. They all go rescue Jean and go against the Shi-Ar forces again and seem like they're losing, and then the Phoenix force appears to Jean and offers to repower her so she can save them all, and she turns it down.
Not a bad story, per se, but the Saga had already been quite lengthy and this would have pushed the same storyline out for another year or more. Post-Shooter, it finally got concluded and the X-Men got to move on to other things.
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Post by tonebone on Nov 1, 2022 13:58:28 GMT -5
I gave it a 9. Now, I was reading it monthly at the time... and I think it suffers, now, from being able to read it in one sitting. But in its original run, and original presentation, it was unbelievably great.
I have encouraged newer comics fans to read it over the years, and they are ALWAYS disappointed by something... either the dated references, the heavy dialogue, the unfamiliar characterizations of characters (who have now become caricatures of themselves)...
But as it was developing, it was really something... a little bit gothic horror/romance, a little bit teen fantasy, a little bit Star Trek, a healthy dose of Legion of Superheroes, the first inklings of Wolverine's evolution into the anti-hero he was to become, and of course, a ton of Superhero Smash-em-ups. It fulfilled the true potential of a serialized comic book epic, only hinted at since "Monster Society of Evil" attempted it for the first time 40 years earlier.
The bane of my existence is clickbait articles about classic 80's movies and why they are now "problematic" or how they "haven't aged well". Anything viewed through that lens is destined for disappointment, but lucky are the few who can read and enjoy it today for what it was... pretty revolutionary.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2022 14:03:20 GMT -5
The bane of my existence is clickbait articles about classic 80's movies and why they are now "problematic" or how they "haven't aged well". Anything viewed through that lens is destined for disappointment, but lucky are the few who can read and enjoy it today for what it was... pretty revolutionary. The bane of my existence is clickbait articles, period. Utter rubbish. ”ACTOR SPEAKS ABOUT HIS DREAM ROLE” (which, when you click on it, is some actor that has long since retired and which few might remember) Comic sites can be the worst for it.
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Post by badwolf on Nov 1, 2022 14:42:58 GMT -5
Jean would have lived but been depowered by the Shi'ar. The original story was published in a one-shot called Phoenix: The Untold Story, along with a transcript of the discussion between the various creators. This issue is included in the Dark Phoenix Saga hardcover; not sure if it is in an X-Men omnibus as well (but it probably is.) In addition to being depowered, she was going to be a mental simpleton, at least for the time-being. Ah, yes. John Byrne has explored this in his personal "Elsewhen" project.
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Post by james on Nov 4, 2022 8:19:14 GMT -5
I gave it an 8. I am rereading the whole Claremont/Byrne run 108-143. Specifically, 129-137 has really aged well as far as readability. Even as I give it an 8 I can't say why I'm not giving it a ten, except to quote a supervisor i had in my 20's when i questioned why I only got eights on my performance but then she would gush at how well of an employee I was. " No one ever gets a ten."
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Post by jason on Nov 20, 2022 23:30:14 GMT -5
The bane of my existence is clickbait articles about classic 80's movies and why they are now "problematic" or how they "haven't aged well". Anything viewed through that lens is destined for disappointment, but lucky are the few who can read and enjoy it today for what it was... pretty revolutionary. The bane of my existence is clickbait articles, period. Utter rubbish. ”ACTOR SPEAKS ABOUT HIS DREAM ROLE” (which, when you click on it, is some actor that has long since retired and which few might remember) Comic sites can be the worst for it. Even worse is when they use it to report deaths, like "Member of a rock band passes away" and it turns out to be a performer from a later, less well-known incarnation of said band. It's still sad, but the clickbait is trying to trick you into thinking someone well-known died.
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