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Post by berkley on Oct 19, 2022 21:09:23 GMT -5
Another one I've blathered on about here many times before: the comic in which Crystal is changed from the Kirby/Lee character to the completely different version that was defined by her various love affairs, marriages, etc, etc. In this case, it's more the idea than a specific comic I can point to, because it's really only something I've heard about online more than any comics I've actually read.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 19, 2022 21:25:02 GMT -5
Another one I've blathered on about here many times before: the comic in which Crystal is changed from the Kirby/Lee character to the completely different version that was defined by her various love affairs, marriages, etc, etc. In this case, it's more the idea than a specific comic I can point to, because it's really only something I've heard about online more than any comics I've actually read. She was such a great character ... and then somebody decided she needed to be married to Quicksilver. Neither one of them has been interesting since.
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 19, 2022 21:50:31 GMT -5
Another one I've blathered on about here many times before: the comic in which Crystal is changed from the Kirby/Lee character to the completely different version that was defined by her various love affairs, marriages, etc, etc. In this case, it's more the idea than a specific comic I can point to, because it's really only something I've heard about online more than any comics I've actually read. Your post made me think of another change like that that occurred in the Len Wein run of Justice League when out of nowhere, Hawkman became a semi-fascist forever going back and forth with Green Arrow. At least Green Arrow's change had been somewhat gradual by comics' standards, with the unveiling of the new GA in Brave and the Bold 85. Len Wein went for (non-existent) low-hanging fruit there, using the fact that Hawkman was a "policeman" on Thanagar as the justification for his attitude. Forget that he was one of the brainier, more scientifically knowledgeable DC characters, the beneficiary of a deep knowledge of the universe courtesy the Absorbascon. Forget also that his attitude toward women was light years beyond the prehistoric attitude Green Arrow had toward Black Canary. Suddenly he was a skull-crushing member of Mayor Daley's Chicago PD circa 1968. It's one thing to lay the groundwork for a 180-degree shift like this, however unlikely it might have been, quite another to simply "make it so" as it seemed to me Wein did here. Neither character did anything but carp at each other, pick nits and try to score with what today we'd call talking points. And the third-grade insults: GA calling Hawkman "Ol' Featherface", buzzard-beak," "feather-duster" and -- brace yourself -- "ostrich-orbs." Really? Really? Meanwhile Hawkman, repressed right-"winger" that he is, holds in his temper and refers to Green Arrow coldly and formally a la Mr. Spock, because alien, right? In his glory days, Hawkman would never have uttered a line like "I suggest we discuss the geographical happenstance later, archer." Suddnely, after a dozen or so years since the Earth-One Hawkman appeared, he starts talking like the robot on "Lost in Space?" Bleeahh, to quote Snoopy. Oh, yeah, there was probably some "Very Special JLA"where each grudgingly realized he'd respected each other, but IIRC, the relationship never much went below simmer. In any event, it took away from my enjoyment of the title, and I was indeed angered by what I regarded as Wein's sloppy (read lazy) scripting.
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Post by berkley on Oct 19, 2022 23:05:41 GMT -5
Another one I've blathered on about here many times before: the comic in which Crystal is changed from the Kirby/Lee character to the completely different version that was defined by her various love affairs, marriages, etc, etc. In this case, it's more the idea than a specific comic I can point to, because it's really only something I've heard about online more than any comics I've actually read. Your post made me think of another change like that that occurred in the O'Neil run of Justice League when out of nowhere, Hawkman became a semi-fascist forever going back and forth with Green Arrow. At least Green Arrow's change had been somewhat gradual by comics' standards, with the unveiling of the new GA in Brave and the Bold 85. Len Wein went for (non-existent) low-hanging fruit there, using the fact that Hawkman was a "policeman" on Thanagar as the justification for his attitude. Forget that he was one of the brainier, more scientifically knowledgeable DC characters, the beneficiary of a deep knowledge of the universe courtesy the Absorbascon. Forget also that his attitude toward women was light years beyond the prehistoric attitude Green Arrow had toward Black Canary. Suddenly he was a skull-crushing member of Mayor Daley's Chicago PD circa 1968. It's one thing to lay the groundwork for a 180-degree shift like this, however unlikely it might have been, quite another to simply "make it so" as it seemed to me Wein did here. Neither character did anything but carp at each other, pick nits and try to score with what today we'd call talking points. And the third-grade insults: GA calling Hawkman "Ol' Featherface", buzzard-beak," "feather-duster" and -- brace yourself -- "ostrich-orbs." Really? Really? Meanwhile Hawkman, repressed right-"winger" that he is, holds in his temper and refers to Green Arrow coldly and formally a la Mr. Spock, because alien, right? In his glory days, Hawkman would never have uttered a line like "I suggest we discuss the geographical happenstance later, archer." Suddnely, after a dozen or so years since the Earth-One Hawkman appeared, he starts talking like the robot on "Lost in Space?" Bleeahh, to quote Snoopy. Oh, yeah, there was probably some "Very Special JLA"where each grudgingly realized he'd respected each other, but IIRC, the relationship never much went below simmer. In any event, it took away from my enjoyment of the title, and I was indeed angered by what I regarded as Wein's sloppy (read lazy) scripting.
I don't know Hawkman as a character well enough to appreciate this one but you reaise a couple of interesting points:
Len Wein went for (non-existent) low-hanging fruit there, using the fact that Hawkman was a "policeman" on Thanagar as the justification for his attitude - I've noticed this pattern with other writers who make these sudden, nonsensical changes to established personalities: isolating some element of that established persona, taking it out of context and blowing it up to become the most important or noticeable thing about them. Gillen's re-invention of Kirby's Thena is another example.
Hawkman, repressed right-"winger" that he is, holds in his temper and refers to Green Arrow coldly and formally a la Mr. Spock, because alien, right? - This is another thing I find annoying: aliens (or in some cases, just plain old foreigners) habitually being given this stiff, stilted speech pattern, even if doesn't suit the personality of the character. It happens sometimes with Barda, for example, even though Kirby wrote her and the Furies more as rough and ready 'Sgt Fury and the Howling Commandos' types rather than stiff-necked Prussian officers (that was Virmin Vundabar, if they'd only bothered noticing).
Though lately it seems that the more common tendancy is to make the opposite error and have every single character talk like one of the gang from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, complete with wisecracks and attitude, no matter where they're from or what kind of personality they were meant to have.
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