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Post by EdoBosnar on May 8, 2022 6:55:08 GMT -5
Up front, I'll say that none of these guys make my top ten, but now you're hitting me where I live as far as comics go. All have done work that I have enjoyed over the years - Mantlo and Michelinie in particular have written some of my favorite stuff from the late '70s/early '80s, the former in Micronauts and the Hulk, and the latter in Iron Man in particular - the Michelinie/Layton run is still the best ever for that character as far as I'm concerned. And Buckler is, I think, an often overlooked talent.
My list, though, remains at nine: John & Sal Buscema, Alan Moore, George Perez, Walt Simonson, John Byrne, Alan Brennert, Will Eisner and Archie Goodwin.
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Post by Trevor on May 8, 2022 7:46:56 GMT -5
Pretty much every Bronze Age choice today was an important part of my childhood, but I actually need to play the wildcard: Dave CockrumCostume designer without peer, my favorite Legion of Super-Heroes artist during also my favorite era, and of course his classic X-Men run. I also just happen to really like him as an artist overall. And with that, I have crossed the finish line with my top ten and really love how the list finally came together. Thanks Trevor , a lot of fun here and definitely a lot of new names for me to explore in the process. Ross Andru John Buscema Sal Buscema Dave Cockrum Steve Ditko José Luis García-López Gil Kane Jack Kirby George Pérez Curt Swan Cockrum was actually 11th in my queue to list when I decided to cut it off at ten. Love his work too. I’m glad you enjoyed it, and I hope the exercise gets all of us to explore something outside our comfort zone. Still three more slates after today though!
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Post by tarkintino on May 8, 2022 9:53:11 GMT -5
Rich Buckler: no He spent a good deal of his breakout years being a quasi-Kirby and Sal Buscema, which was impossible to ignore.
Mike Grell: no Some might say he had the unfortunate task of following Adams on Green Lantern and Cockrum on Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes, but he carried on certain traditions of both and made the titles his own. That said, its not enough to place him in the top ten.
Len Wein: no
Dick Giordano not top ten , but an easy top 20 placement. His middle name should have been "versatile".
Mark Evanier: no.
Bill Mantlo: no.
Al Milgrom: no.
Davis Michelinie: no.
Jim Shooter: not top ten, but an undeniable top 20 placement.
Frank Brunner: no.
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Post by Trevor on May 9, 2022 7:06:16 GMT -5
Day Thirty-Eight Response and Wrap—Up
I wish I had met Len Wein (and Bernie Wrightson). Their 1970s Swamp Thing is one of the main reasons I’m here today. Still one of the best ten issue runs in comic history.
Definitely wouldn’t be here if we had no Swamp Thing or Micronauts. Plop got me started, but Swamp Thing and then Micronauts cemented me as a collector. As great of Golden’s art was, Bill Mantlo deserves most of the credit for making Micronauts (and Rom) so good.
But as close as they are, my list remains at 9. Frank Miller Jack Kirby Carl Barks Alan Moore Mike Mignola Jeff Lemire Bernie Wrightson Matt Wagner Will Eisner
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Post by Trevor on May 9, 2022 7:11:22 GMT -5
Day Thirty-Nine Choices
Only a couple more slates after today, I promise you we’re almost done here.
Our final Manga Monday cheats in two ways. First, it includes all non-US creators, and two, it’s another wildcard option day. So if any non-US creators are still to be revealed in your top ten, please tell us all about them now.
Hopefully you’re not boring like me and have only US/English creators on your list. Hopefully my list in ten years has nobody from the big-two and at least half non-US creators.
Kazou Koike wrote some of the biggest names in manga (and adapted into anime) history; Lone Wolf and Cub, Lady Snowblood, and Crying Freeman.
Hayao Miyazaki didn’t go a ton of manga, but Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind is a landmark.
Takehiko Inoue is most known for the huge sellers Slam Dunk and Vagabond.
Moto Hagio is a founding mother of shōjo manga (girls comics), so perhaps not many of her main target audience here.
Go Nagai pioneered many genres of manga, and is know for Cutie Honey, Devilman, and Mazinger Z.
Albert Uderzo drew, and wrote for a time, Asterix. He is best know for that of course, but did a couple other notable works with René Goscinny. René died way too soon, and worked on other titles, notably decades of Lucky Luke.
Lucky Luke creator Morris didn’t do much else, but almost 50 years on that beloved title might be enough for one of you to have him on your list.
Hugo Pratt, one of the Group of Venice, is best known for Corto Maltese.
Are the myriad works of Alejandro Jodorowsky great enough to make your list?
Can you ignore the controversies and put Dave Sim on your list?
And again, so many more deserve to be discussed I’m sure, as I’m about the last person you want writing about international comics. So please use your wildcards and tell us about them.
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Post by commond on May 9, 2022 7:54:55 GMT -5
Don't underestimate shojo manga. The Rose of Versailles is still my favorite anime series of all-time and that was a shojo manga.
Takehiko Inoue makes my list because he's a superlative artist. It's a shame he never finished Vagabond, but it remains an incredible piece of work.
Of the Silver Age and Bronze Age creators, I'm a big fan of Doom Patrol and think it's one of the best comics of the era, so shout out to Arnold Drake. I also like Curt Swan's classic style on Legion of Superheroes. Mike Grell has done a lot of stuff I like. In fact, Green Arrow, Warlord and Jon Sable are among the best stuff I've read. That's three great runs. But his art can be really ugly at times.
There was a time when Cerebus was hugely important in my life. I never finished it, but I would regard parts of it to be among the best work comics has to offer. I can't really justify putting Sim on the list, especially when Gerhard was so influential in the way the book looked, and of course, because of all the batshit insane things that Sim wound up doing.
Loved Asterix as a boy. Thank you, René Goscinny and Albert Uderzo. I didn't realize that it's still going. I think the last book I read was 1987's Asterix and the Magic Carpet. I clearly remember when that came out.
My list so far: John Buscema, Gene Colan, Jaime and Gilbert Hernandez, Dan Clowes, Kentaro Miura, Takehiko Inoue
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Post by EdoBosnar on May 9, 2022 8:43:36 GMT -5
I've read a little of Lone Wolf & Cub and really liked it, but Koike (and Kojima for that matter) don't make my list. Neither does Miyazaki, although he might after I get around to reading Nausicaa. Asterix by Uderzo and Goscinny is quite brilliant, and Goscinny comes close to the top ten, but not quite. One day I'd like to get around to reading Corto Maltese, and also at least some of Lucky Luke (it's quite popular among comics fans in Croatia). I've read a few things by Jodorowsky which, to be honest, I didn't like all that much. However, the Incal, like Nausicaa, is on my shelf waiting to be read - so I'll reserve judgment on him until after I finish that. No to the rest as well.
My list is still in a holding pattern at nine names: John & Sal Buscema, Alan Moore, George Perez, Walt Simonson, John Byrne, Alan Brennert, Will Eisner and Archie Goodwin.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2022 8:58:50 GMT -5
While my top ten has already been claimed, I wanted to comment on a few of these names.
Miyazaki will forever be my favorite animator (Spirited Away changed everything for me when it comes to animation), but I'm not as close to his manga work. My wife has a Nausicaa collection and I probably need to finally read that.
The Asterix creative team...this is definitely in the "need more than ten spots in my top ten". At some point I need to find time to savor the entire run again, I have them all sitting on a shelf. As a kid, I always felt like they transported me away to this other really cool world to hang out in.
Dave Sim...I can largely separate a creator's works from who they are except in some extreme cases, but in truth I do find his personality makes it a bit of a challenge to put him high on my list. That said, High Society would likely make my top ten "most re-read" story arcs ever.
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Post by badwolf on May 9, 2022 9:05:16 GMT -5
Day Thirty-Eight ChoicesStandard disclaimers on this Bronze Age slate: many of these spanned multiple Ages, many others were nominated earlier, and many great creators won’t be mentioned here due to space. So please use wildcards if needed and tell us all about your Bronze Age favorites. Bronze Age 1970-1985 Rich Buckler drew for just about every comic company ever, but is probably best known for creating Deathlok and drawing a lot of Fantastic Four. I know him best from his great DC work on All-Star Squadron and World’s Finest. We all owe him thanks for not only decades of great art, but for giving George Perez his first job in the industry. Mike Grell has so many career highlights. He’d be on this list just for his creation Warlord, but also had memorable runs on Legion and Green Lantern, rebooted Green Arrow in 1987, and created Jon Sable. Len Wein would be here just for co-creating Swamp Thing. But he also co-created a minor character over at Marvel called Wolverine, and most of the new X-Men. I can’t do his career justice, but just his editing or just his writing would be enough to consider him among the greats. Dick Giordano started drawing comics in the Golden Age, and continued into the Modern Age, but I think best belongs here. An amazing career editing and managing lines, and still drawing up until his death in 2010. I had forgotten that he inked some issues of Neil Gaiman’s Sandman. Mark Evanier has written books for several companies, but is probably best known for working with Sergio on what must be close to 200 issues of Groo. He’s also a great comic historian and has had numerous must-read columns and blogs over the decades. Bill Mantlo co-created Rocket Racoon and Cloak & Dagger, and is perhaps best known for long writing runs on the licensed properties Rom and Micronauts. Both were so much better than most such comics, and I’m continually saddened that he was the victim of a hit-and-run accident and has been in institutional care for 30 years now. Al Milgrom co-created Firestorm, but is probably best known for his Marvel work that included helming Marvel Fanfare, inking a lot of Starlin, and runs writing, penciling, or inking many characters. Davis Michelinie co-created Venom, Carnage, Scott Lang, Claw, and War Machine. Has written a lot for Marvel and DC, and several other companies, from 1974 to today. Jim Shooter has made an impact. I’ll let somebody else flesh out some thoughts on him if they choose. Frank Brunner did beautiful work at Marvel in the 70s on mostly Doctor Strange and Howard the Duck. Has a few bits of other notable work at various companies but has apparently been mostly working in the film industry since the 90s. Had a couple Marvel stories pop up in 2010. Not a ton of info easy to find on his life and career decisions, will have to seek out interviews or stories about him. Anyone know more? Mantlo and Michelinie were large and positive parts of my childhood, but I'm not sure they would make my top 10. I still get sad when I think about Bill too. I've only gotten to appreciate Brunner's art recently, as I think I just didn't read the books he was drawing back in the day. Great stuff, maybe a top 10 artist.
The rest, no.
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Post by badwolf on May 9, 2022 9:09:48 GMT -5
Day Thirty-Nine ChoicesOnly a couple more slates after today, I promise you we’re almost done here. Our final Manga Monday cheats in two ways. First, it includes all non-US creators, and two, it’s another wildcard option day. So if any non-US creators are still to be revealed in your top ten, please tell us all about them now. Hopefully you’re not boring like me and have only US/English creators on your list. Hopefully my list in ten years has nobody from the big-two and at least half non-US creators. Kazou Koike wrote some of the biggest names in manga (and adapted into anime) history; Lone Wolf and Cub, Lady Snowblood, and Crying Freeman. Hayao Miyazaki didn’t go a ton of manga, but Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind is a landmark. Takehiko Inoue is most known for the huge sellers Slam Dunk and Vagabond. Moto Hagio is a founding mother of shōjo manga (girls comics), so perhaps not many of her main target audience here. Go Nagai pioneered many genres of manga, and is know for Cutie Honey, Devilman, and Mazinger Z. Albert Uderzo drew, and wrote for a time, Asterix. He is best know for that of course, but did a couple other notable works with René Goscinny. René died way too soon, and worked on other titles, notably decades of Lucky Luke. Lucky Luke creator Morris didn’t do much else, but almost 50 years on that beloved title might be enough for one of you to have him on your list. Hugo Pratt, one of the Group of Venice, is best known for Corto Maltese. Are the myriad works of Alejandro Jodorowsky great enough to make your list? Can you ignore the controversies and put Dave Sim on your list? And again, so many more deserve to be discussed I’m sure, as I’m about the last person you want writing about international comics. So please use your wildcards and tell us about them. I adore Miyazaki's films, but there isn't enough comics work (that I know of) to put him on this list. I think I read Nausicaa back when Viz first published it here, but that was a long time ago. I now have the latest collection box set but haven't read that yet.
I've only read a couple Jodorowsky books. One was good, the other I didn't care for. I know it probably shouldn't matter, but he is a real scumbag as far as his filmmaking goes (real animal cruelty, as well as other dubious practices regarding his actors), so even if I loved something of his I'd probably leave him off.
Haven't read enough Sim.
The rest, no or not familiar at all.
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Post by Trevor on May 9, 2022 10:16:58 GMT -5
While my top ten has already been claimed, I wanted to comment on a few of these names. Miyazaki will forever be my favorite animator (Spirited Away changed everything for me when it comes to animation), but I'm not as close to his manga work. My wife has a Nausicaa collection and I probably need to finally read that. The Asterix creative team...this is definitely in the "need more than ten spots in my top ten". At some point I need to find time to savor the entire run again, I have them all sitting on a shelf. As a kid, I always felt like they transported me away to this other really cool world to hang out in. Dave Sim...I can largely separate a creator's works from who they are except in some extreme cases, but in truth I do find his personality makes it a bit of a challenge to put him high on my list. That said, High Society would likely make my top ten "most re-read" story arcs ever. Can High Society be appreciated without reading any of the previous arcs?
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2022 10:44:15 GMT -5
While my top ten has already been claimed, I wanted to comment on a few of these names. Miyazaki will forever be my favorite animator (Spirited Away changed everything for me when it comes to animation), but I'm not as close to his manga work. My wife has a Nausicaa collection and I probably need to finally read that. The Asterix creative team...this is definitely in the "need more than ten spots in my top ten". At some point I need to find time to savor the entire run again, I have them all sitting on a shelf. As a kid, I always felt like they transported me away to this other really cool world to hang out in. Dave Sim...I can largely separate a creator's works from who they are except in some extreme cases, but in truth I do find his personality makes it a bit of a challenge to put him high on my list. That said, High Society would likely make my top ten "most re-read" story arcs ever. Can High Society be appreciated without reading any of the previous arcs? Others may have a different thought, but I believe it can. And my reason for that is I actually read it out of sequence that way. My first exposure to Cerebus was High Society and while there were a number of prior references I had to sort of piece together, I didn't find it too hard to get the gist of what had happened nor did it take away from my enjoyment of the arc itself. In fact, when I went back and read the prior arc which started it all, I found it was a little rough since it took a bit for the series to evolve into what it became by the time of High Society. Sure, it filled in some details more, and I do appreciate it on some level as well, but it wasn't like "oh this makes so much more sense now!", at least for me personally. Again, others may have some different perspective here.
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Post by Trevor on May 9, 2022 10:50:59 GMT -5
I think I actually own the first two phonebooks, so maybe I’ll just give it a go again. I made it part way thru the first years ago, and liked it enough, it was still in its mostly Conan parody period iirc. Just got buried in my mountains of books to someday read….
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2022 10:56:43 GMT -5
I think I actually own the first two phonebooks, so maybe I’ll just give it a go again. I made it part way thru the first years ago, and liked it enough, it was still in its mostly Conan parody period iirc. Just got buried in my mountains of books to someday read…. Yeah, IMO that can be the problem starting with the first phonebook even though it's the logical sequence normally. By the time High Society rolls around, it's much more than the Conan parody it started as and might grab you more. I don't really revisit that first one too often to be honest.
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Post by Dizzy D on May 9, 2022 11:27:39 GMT -5
Day Thirty-Nine ChoicesOnly a couple more slates after today, I promise you we’re almost done here. Our final Manga Monday cheats in two ways. First, it includes all non-US creators, and two, it’s another wildcard option day. So if any non-US creators are still to be revealed in your top ten, please tell us all about them now. Hopefully you’re not boring like me and have only US/English creators on your list. Hopefully my list in ten years has nobody from the big-two and at least half non-US creators. Kazou Koike and Takehiko Inoue: I contemplated putting them on my manga creator lists before, but I have to read too little by each. They don't make my Top 10. Hayao Miyazaki: I know mostly for his animation work rather than manga work.
Moto Hagio: As expected not the target audience.
Go Nagai: Never got around to his work.
Albert Uderzo: Like his art, didn't like his writing. Liked Goscinny a lot more, but I'll use my Wildcard for today to put in somebody that combines both (IMHO). (Goscinny would definitely be in my Top 20 though, or Top 10 writers)
Morris and Pratt: Also in a very crowded Top 20, but not the Top 10. Alejandro Jordorowsky: A lot of interesting works, but I usually am far more interested in the artists (Moebius, Jeremy, Igor Kordey, Ladronn, Boucq) on his works than his writing.
Have read very little Dave Sim and everything about him make me not want to seek out more.
Wildcard: I'm gonna use my wildcard for André Franquin (also while most of my list is not numbered, he's without question number 1). A good friend of Morris, and together with Morris, Peyo (creator of the Smurfs), Jean Giraud (Moebius) and several others, one of the students of Joseph Gillain (who should be on my list, if more of his work got reprinted over the years.. maybe in the near future as there are a lot of "Integral" reprints of old comics coming out right now). As a child, Franquin's work always appealed to me more than his contemporaries. He got to do more weird things than Morris and Uderzo, who stuck to their (slightly) more historical based comics. His artwork was more energetic and his writing funnier than Herge or Vandersteen. His Spirou was the most exciting and adventurous of the comics at the time, his Gaston the funniest and when I got older his Ideees Noires introduced me to more cynical and dark humour. I even paid some good money for Slowburn (which is a 20 page dumb joke by Gotlib) just because Franquin illustrated it.
There are better writers, there are better artists (though are they, really?) but there is none better for me (a similar feeling I have for my two remaining picks).
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