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Post by EdoBosnar on Apr 26, 2022 16:04:07 GMT -5
Yeah, if Bob Layton gets consideration for his overall work, then so should John Severin and Joe Staton - like Slam said, they should both be considered pencilers more than inkers in any case. Staton ranks pretty highly for me, very close to the top ten. Although I like many of the inkers mentioned, none of them make my list.
So my picks remain: John & Sal Buscema, Alan Moore, George Perez, Walt Simonson, John Byrne, Alan Brennert and Will Eisner.
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 26, 2022 16:09:33 GMT -5
Inkers: okay, let's start with two who should not be on this list--John Severin: Not considering him for the inker category, as he was a fantastic, well-established comic illutrator and painter. How he's selected exclusively for the inking category raises an eyebrow. Ernie Chan: No--because he--like Severin--is yet another well-established artist known first and foremost as a prolific penciller.
Now, for the rest...
Joe Sinnott: Undoubtedly, he added much-needed softness and a kind of "beauty" to Kirby's work, but Syd Shores and John Romita Sr did that as well--each helping in delivering Kirby's best work. That said, Sinnott is not in the top ten.
Frank Giacoia: No. He was a very, very talented inking on a diverse group of legends, but even he does not make the cut. Jerry Ordway: no.Norm Rapmund: no. Brett Breeding: no.Klaus Janson (who has his die hard supporters): Excellent inker and one of the few who made George Perez's Marvel work among the best of that period (arguably Perez's best inker across his entire career), but I would not place him in the top ten. Tom Palmer: Another great inker, who made everyone from John Buscema to Walt Simonson that much better, but no, I cannot place him in the top ten--that's for the best of the best. The Mount Rushmore of comic book creators, which leads mme to say the same about... Murphy Anderson: Another painful one! A great artist as well as inker, and there's no question about the endless, iconic, era-defining covers, interiors and licensing art he produced with Carmine Infantino, but even with those towering achievements, he's not in the top ten, but in the top thirty. Terry Austin: no.Romeo Tanghal: No! I never found his thin inking suitable for Perez on The New Teen Titans--actually watering down Perez's work, and if you can to that, you are the wrong guy for the job. Mike Esposito: Ohh, this one really hurts, as Esposito's work with Romita was stellar, certainly contributing to some of the greatest Marvel books ever published, but no, he's not in the top ten. Pablo Marcos: no.Joe Rubenstein: no.Jim Mooney: no.
Joe Staton: no.
Bob McLeod: no.Syd Shores.
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Post by badwolf on Apr 26, 2022 16:17:12 GMT -5
Janson, Rubinstein, Palmer and Austin are all top inkers for me, but I couldn't put them on a list for "creators."
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Post by Duragizer on Apr 26, 2022 18:34:14 GMT -5
Will Eisner — Read a little bit of The Spirit. Liked what I read, but it's not enough to have formed a strong appreciation.
Stuart Immonen — Have lots of respect for the man, but he's not a top creator for me.
Hergé — He's borderline. I really love the artistry that went into The Adventures of Tintin, though my enthusiasm for the writing and characters themselves are more subdued.
As for inkers, I'm gonna pass on this one. The number of inkers I can automatically recognize without consulting the credits I can count on one hand, and only when paired with specific pencillers.
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Post by Cei-U! on Apr 27, 2022 3:58:49 GMT -5
We’re done with strips. So you cheaters with two lists can go ahead and fill in your ten, with some commentary on your additions please. Convince us! Well, as long as you asked so nicely... Roy Crane was a master storyteller. His use of duotone to add depth and mood to his panels is legendary. Had he done nothing but Wash Tubbs, he still would've made my list, but he has two more classic strips, Captain Easy and Buz Sawyer, to his credit. And he was a major influence on Superman co-creator Joe Shuster. Fred Gottfredsen bumped Winsor "Little Nemo in Wonderland" McCay off my list at the last second. Although he didn't script the Mickey Mouse newspaper strip, he did plot it, creating one of the best adventure strips of the 1930s. But he's mostly here because I read an interview with him in Comics Journal years ago where he discussed his approach to panel composition that I took to heart and applied to my own work. E.C. "Elzie" Segar created Popeye. Nuff said! Cliff Sterrett is long forgotten by the general public, which is a darned shame. No other artist of the Jazz Age (and few since) experimented with page layout the way Sterrett did in "Polly and Her Pals," or incorporated elements of the era's art movements (Art Deco, expressionism, surrealism) so effectively. A forgotten genius.
Top Ten (comic books): Carl Barks, George Carlson, Will Eisner, Gilbert Hernandez, Walt Kelly, Jack Kirby, George Perez*, Dave Stevens* Top Ten (comic strips): Milton Caniff, Roy Crane, Fred Gottfredsen, George Herriman, Walt Kelly, Gary Larson, Charles Schulz, E.C. Segar, Cliff Sterrett, Bill Watterson
* provisional
Cei-U! I summon my pantheon of comic strip greats!
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Post by commond on Apr 27, 2022 6:35:39 GMT -5
Day Thirty ChoicesWe have another wildcard today, and a guest turn at writing the post. The below post is from B5Erik at my other comic book forum. We will go ~36 hours since we had a late start. And if anyone here has ideas for a day’s choices shoot me a private message. It's INKER'S DAY! I've been a great admirer of a lot of inkers over the decades, going back to the 70's when I first started buying the comics and reading the credits. I pretty much guessed how the penciling and inking process worked, and noticed right away that some inkers were better than others. And sometimes it's a matter of styles meshing well. I'm not a fan of Klaus Janson's inks, but sometimes, on some pencil artists, he did a great job. Case in point, The Defenders when inking Keith Giffen's pencil art. Giffen was doing an odd Kirby meets Everett style at the time (shown most in the couple of issues he inked himself). I'm not a fan of that period in Giffen's work, but Klaus Janson, an inker who I don't usually like, really worked wonders on the handful of issues he inked there. Their styles were totally different, but perfectly complementary. Inkers can make mediocre pencil art look really good, but they can also make really good pencil art look mediocre. Sometimes a great inker just didn't fit with a great pencil artist, too. For me, there are a group of inkers that are some of my favorites - and that's where the nominees start today. Joe Sinnott, Frank Giacoia, Jerry Ordway, John Severin, Ernie Chan, Norm Rapmund, and Brett Breeding. I'd also include John Romita Sr. in there, but he's already a nominee for his overall work, as were Bob Layton and Sal Buscema. Beyond that, though, there are a bunch of other guys worthy of recognition. The aforementioned Klaus Janson (who has his die hard supporters), Tom Palmer, Murphy Anderson, Terry Austin, Romeo Tanghal, Mike Esposito, Pablo Marcos, Joe Rubenstein, Jim Mooney, Joe Staton (both pencils and inks, at different times), Bob McLeod, and I'm sure I'm forgetting several others worthy of recognition. Feel free to take this opportunity to include a write in candidate and include them in your Top 10 if you believe they belong there - and give a reason why. That's a lot of inkers, but I suspect that we won't see many, if any, of them make your Top 10 lists. One will make mine, though... I don't have a firm enough grasp on inking to have an opinion on a lot of these guys. I have a few half-arsed opinions like Kirby's pencils on Fantastic Four improving dramatically once Sinnott was on inks, and Chan being my favorite inker on Buscema's Conan work, but that's about it.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Apr 27, 2022 7:35:43 GMT -5
As for inkers, I'm gonna pass on this one. The number of inkers I can automatically recognize without consulting the credits I can count on one hand, and only when paired with specific pencillers. I am the same pretty much. Of those mentioned I do think Romeo Tanghal complimented Darryl Banks when they did Green Lantern together. And I've always though Al Milgrom was the best inker for Jim Starlin. Otherwise I couldn't tell you one inker from another without credits.
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Post by MDG on Apr 27, 2022 8:13:51 GMT -5
We’re done with strips. So you cheaters with two lists can go ahead and fill in your ten, with some commentary on your additions please. Convince us! Well, as long as you asked so nicely... I'll go as well, with some repeats from Cei-U! 's list:
Roy Crane: His Buz Sawyer is just a master class in storytelling and clear drawing. His characters have loads of personality.
Cliff Sterrett: Someone I needs to look at more purposefully, but his Sunday pages are gorgeous.
Frank King: Another subject for further study, but the Gasoline Alley examples I've read can beautifully balance gag-a-day and telling the story of a family that ages and grows in real time. And, like Sterrett, he often does this in the context beautifully designed and colored Sunday pages.
Ernie Bushmiller: A master at using the comic form to clearly and unmistakably communicate a single idea and/or emotion. In this way, he's very similar to Steve Ditko.
On inkers: none make my list, though there's plenty to love there.
So far: Comic Books: Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, Xaime Hernandez, Dan Clowes
Final list: Comic Strips: Bill Watterson, Milton Caniff, Charles Schulz, Alex Raymond, George Herriman, Chester Gould, Roy Crane, Cliff Sterrett, Frank King, Ernie Bushmiller
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 27, 2022 9:39:00 GMT -5
Well, as long as you asked so nicely... Frank King: Another subject for further study, but the Gasoline Alley examples I've read can beautifully balance gag-a-day and telling the story of a family that ages and grows in real time. And, like Sterrett, he often does this in the context beautifully designed and colored Sunday pages. Frank King's Sunday pages rivaled Winsor McKay and Herriman for sheer beauty.
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 28, 2022 4:53:58 GMT -5
Sorry kinda busy this week, so missed the Inkers, but none of them make my Top 10. My remaining for are all both writer and artist (though not always both at the same time).
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Post by Trevor on Apr 28, 2022 9:41:47 GMT -5
Day Thirty Response and Wrap—Up
There are a lot of great artists in that list, and some excellent artists known primarily for their inking in the industry. I’ll admit that I’ve never been an “art guy” and am especially bad at identifying inkers from their work.
I loved the Swanderson team, so Murphy Anderson is a favorite, along with Alfredo Alcala and Jerry Ordway.
But I stay at 90%. Frank Miller Jack Kirby Carl Barks Alan Moore Mike Mignola Jeff Lemire Bernie Wrightson Matt Wagner Will Eisner
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Post by Trevor on Apr 28, 2022 9:46:18 GMT -5
Day Thirty-One Choices
I’m going back to cleanup names from a certain era of comics and ask you if Matt Fraction, Jason Aaron, or Joe Hill are in your top 10.
And I’m gonna see if a couple of random wildcards are lurking and ask if you have R Crumb saved for a spot or if you have good taste and are a true 20th century boy and ride for Naoki Urusawa.
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Post by arfetto on Apr 28, 2022 10:05:26 GMT -5
I am not familiar with anything Fraction or Joe Hill have written, I do not believe (maybe I have read something they have done without realizing it though). I don't know how much I "liked" it, but this Aaron book was a compelling read for me: So on the strength of that series I checked out his superhero stuff and so far have not enjoyed much of it unfortunately. I am not sure if I've read any of his work from 2012 or back though. As for Urasawa, he is probably a top 15 or 20 creator for me. Truthfully he should probably be higher on the list when I think about it, but I already made my list in my head (but I might revise it for him to be number 10, I will think a bit). I love Monster, 20th Century Boys, Pluto, Yawara and Master Keaton, and his other works (there are a few I have not checked out yet). It is quite the resume.
Edit: I think I will replace Morrison with Urasawa.
So my list is currently: Jack Kirby, Joe Kubert, Jim Shooter, Jim Starlin, Naoki Urasawa
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 28, 2022 10:11:58 GMT -5
Fraction would be on my list of writers (Iron Fist, Hawkeye, Casanova, Sex Criminals, November, Ody-C, FF: all very different books, all books I enjoyed a lot), but again not Top10 of writers/artists/etc. combined. He's very close though.
I like Aaron a lot, not as much as Fraction though.
Urasawa: 20th Century Boys is a top book. Monster wsa veyr good as well. Haven't read the rest. On a Top 20 list, he'd probably make it.
Joe Hill: I like his work better than his father's, but I still notice the same writing tics that put me off.
R. Crumb: Not my kind of thing.
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Post by MDG on Apr 28, 2022 10:13:03 GMT -5
Day Thirty-One ChoicesI’m going back to cleanup names from a certain era of comics and ask you if Matt Fraction, Jason Aaron, or Joe Hill are in your top 10. And I’m gonna see if a couple of random wildcards are lurking and ask if you have R Crumb saved for a spot or if you have good taste and are a true 20th century boy and ride for Naoki Urusawa. I read some Fraction--it's fine, I guess. Just seems to take forever for anything to happen.
Crumb is probably one of the five or so most important and influential cartoonists of the 20th century, but not a top 10 favorite of mine.
Never heard of the others.
So far: Comic Books: Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, Xaime Hernandez, Dan Clowes
Comic Strips: Bill Watterson, Milton Caniff, Charles Schulz, Alex Raymond, George Herriman, Chester Gould, Roy Crane, Cliff Sterrett, Frank King, Ernie Bushmiller
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