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Post by EdoBosnar on Apr 16, 2022 10:04:58 GMT -5
Stan Lee, Wagner (haven't read enough of his work), Hickman, Bisley and Remender - no. Jose Louis Garcia Lopez - a very regretful no, even though he's one of the finest artists to ever work in the medium. But, like a few other personal favorites, e.g., Kane or Wrightson, he doesn't quite make make my top ten cut.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 16, 2022 10:59:04 GMT -5
Day Twenty ChoicesOkay so I feel like I have to at some point offer up Stan Lee as a choice. So today is that day. And let’s get some other pretty big more modern names out of the way too. Are Matt Wagner, Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez, Jonathan Hickman, Simon Bisley, or Rick Remender on your list? Stan The Man - no. But he’s well up on the list. Matt Wagner - a very reluctant no. I just can’t quite see how I can fit him in (and I can see where at least one or two on my list will drop off if we keep going with this). But he wrote one of my top five comic series (Sandman Mystery Theater). Simon Bisley -no. I run hot and cold on his work. Jonathan Hickman - Great big ideas that inevitably seen to fizzle out into not much of anything. I did like Marvels Project. Rick Rememder - I’ve never gotten around to reading any of his stuff. Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez - this one actually hurts to say no, because he’s a top ten artist and illustrator. But he didn’t do enough or a long enough sustained run to make my list. I absolutely adore his art though.
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Post by MDG on Apr 16, 2022 11:52:28 GMT -5
No one on this list. Garcia-Lopez is an excellent all-around artist--one of the best to emerge in the 70s--and I've seen things from Wagner and Bisley that I've liked. And, yes, I'm still guilty I never read Mage.
Remender and Hickman are unknowns.
Stan Lee was a great marketer, and his greatest contributions happened outside of the story pages. He'd've done his legacy a lot more good by comparing himself to someone like Bill Gaines--indisputably one of the most important people in the history of comics, though not a creator--than by trying to claim credit for things he didn't do. And I'm not trying to lessen what he did do--as with Julie Schwartz or Mort Weisinger, you can tell a Stan Lee story a mile away, but not 'cause he was a "creator."
(Also, reading the early DDs a little while back, Lee's digs at Wally Wood in captions in the goddamn story, really left a bad taste in my mouth. There are similar comments once in a while in stories by other artists.)
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 16, 2022 12:24:00 GMT -5
Matt Wagner: no.
Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez: no.
Jonathan Hickman: no.
Simon Bisley: no.
Rick Remender: no. What about Stan Lee? Stan Lee: Yes. I know well enough about his creative contributions / innovations (direct from fellow creators' mouths in number of cases) to know that he was not the "end-all" of comics...and not some "thief" either, but one of its most defining forces. Remove him from history and Marvel vanishes still trying to chase after the Silver Age launched by DC (which Lee himself championed, but he took the medium beyond simply trying to compete / capitalize on DC's breakouts).
There are a few talents who were truly successful "double-threats" in the industry, and sent it to places never imagined before thanks to being able to create / shape in more than one way. Lee certainly fit that role (similar to Infantino at DC).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2022 13:30:06 GMT -5
Jonathan Hickman - Great big ideas that inevitably seen to fizzle out into not much of anything. I did like Marvels Project. Marvels Project was Brubaker wasn't it? or is there another Marvels Project you are referring to that I am unfamiliar with? -M
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 16, 2022 15:59:29 GMT -5
Matt Wagner makes my list (Grendel and Mage first and foremost, but also for other works like Sandman Mystery Theatre and Madam Xanadu). Reason for his inclusion: no artist portrays movement in comics as well as he does (opinion of course).
Rest doesn't make my list. Hickman comes the closest (love a lot of his work), just not Top 20 writers and as artist not Top 100.
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Post by badwolf on Apr 16, 2022 17:26:28 GMT -5
Day Twenty ChoicesOkay so I feel like I have to at some point offer up Stan Lee as a choice. So today is that day. And let’s get some other pretty big more modern names out of the way too. Are Matt Wagner, Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez, Jonathan Hickman, Simon Bisley, or Rick Remender on your list? Stan...he created Marvel Yes.
Wagner, not read much of.
Garcia-Lopez was one of DC's best artists, but a top 10 creator, nah.
Hickman, not impressed with what little I've read.
Bisley, I like some of his art. Top creator, no.
Remender, not read.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 16, 2022 20:27:28 GMT -5
Jonathan Hickman - Great big ideas that inevitably seen to fizzle out into not much of anything. I did like Marvels Project. Marvels Project was Brubaker wasn't it? or is there another Marvels Project you are referring to that I am unfamiliar with? -M Yeah it was. I saw Manhattan Projects and my mind warped. Never mind.
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Post by commond on Apr 17, 2022 2:17:24 GMT -5
Sampling a few more creators.
Sal Buscema -- Thor -- I was sorely disappointed as a kid when Simonson dropped the penciling duties on Thor. I was so upset I actually refused to buy the issues that Sal drew, which meant I never finished Simonson's run on the title. I've had it in the back of my mind for a while now to read the Buscema issues. Looking at it now, bringing Sal on was a smart choice by the editor since his style closely resembles Simonson's. I wasn't 100% sold on the issue I read. The artwork wasn't very detailed, and Simonson's cover was better than the interior work, but I'm committed to finishing the run.
John Romita Jr -- Wolverine: Enemy of the State -- Hmm, Wolverine is turned evil by the Hydra and the Hand and fights Elektra. This is the kind of storyline that turned me off comics in the 90s. Romita's art doesn't resemble anything I've seen from him before. I respect the fact that his artwork continued to evolve over time, but these types of comics don't do it for me anymore.
Grant Morrison -- Flex Mentallo -- this was from the period where Morrison was still heavily into deconstructing comic books and the art of making comic books. This was interesting on an intellectual level, but lacked the emotional punch that I look for from a great piece of work. It's kind of annoying how Morrison has to cram drug use into all of his stories just because he used stimulants himself. Nice art by Quitely.
Alan Moore -- Lost Girls -- Man, this was a bad choice for Moore. Awful. I don't like the art at all. Too static.
David Mazzuchelli -- Rubber Blanket -- this was a radical departure from Mazzuchelli's superhero work. He used a more expressionistic, cartoonist style. I've read better cartoonists, though to be fair this was his first crack at it. The stories weren't bad, but I hated the use of a single color. As far as I'm concerned, you should either stick to black and white or full color. The Comic Book Journal considered this one of the most important comic book works of the 20th Century. I have no idea why.
Bill Sienkiewicz -- The Shadow -- this was underwhelming. The writing wasn't the greatest, but I expected more from the layouts and design work. Sienkiewicz doing strictly pencils and inks instead of paint and other materials. It wasn't very interesting visually.
Bernie Wrightson -- Creepy #62 -- now, this! This! This was incredible. This was Wrightson adapted Edgar Allen Poe's The Black Cat, and it was utterly brilliant. The angles and point-of-view perspectives Wrightson used were stunning. I'm definitely going to read more Wrightson on the back of this.
Katsuhiro Otomo -- Farewell to Weapons -- really nice short story. One thing I've noticed about the master storytellers is the painfully meticulous work they put into designing the backgrounds to their work.
Chris Ware -- Acme Novelty Library #1 -- this was utterly brilliant. One of the best comics I've read in a long time. Perhaps ever.
Matt Wagner -- Batman and the Monster Men -- Wagner draws a mean Batman. He's also very good at writing pulp stories. He's hardly breaking new ground by putting a modern spin on Golden Age Batman, but it was interesting to see his take on Hugo Strange, 30s Gotham, and Bruce Wayne's first girlfriend.
Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez -- Twilight -- I wanted to read some of the fringe projects Garcia-Lopez did at DC. This is a dense sci-fi mini-series written by Howard Chaykin. Apparently, it's a reimagining of DC's 50s science fiction heroes, bringing them all into the same universe. That part went over my head since I'm not familiar with the characters. I'm a fan of American Flagg! and enjoy Chaykin doing sci-fi, and the artwork is utterly fantastic. There's a lot of story to it, but plenty of bang for your buck.
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Post by Trevor on Apr 17, 2022 6:01:08 GMT -5
Day Twenty Response and Wrap—Up
Matt Wagner an easy in for me. Mage and Grendel are top ten works, and I love all his DC work too.
Remender is probably top ten if it was writers only.
Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez, praise be his name, makes my art only list. I grew up a DC kid, and his art is still the template I see when I think of those main characters. Even though I now tend to dislike ‘normal’ super-hero artwork, I’ll always love JLGL.
I like Bisley’s style, but not top ten.
I appreciate Stan Lee for his championing and furthering of the industry, and love comics of that era, but can't stand his writing.
Hickman is working his way up the list. Still have dozens of his runs to read or finish someday.
My list is now at eight members: Frank Miller Jack Kirby Carl Barks Alan Moore Mike Mignola Jeff Lemire Bernie Wrightson Matt Wagner
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Post by Trevor on Apr 17, 2022 6:04:10 GMT -5
Day Twenty-One Choices
Why not, let’s have another Strip Sunday! Please, stay dressed everyone.
Do any of the following make your list? Gary Larson, George Herriman, Hal Foster, Walt Kelly, or Alex Raymond.
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Post by Cei-U! on Apr 17, 2022 6:25:41 GMT -5
Day Twenty-One ChoicesWhy not, let’s have another Strip Sunday! Please, stay dressed everyone. Do any of the following make your list? Gary Larson, George Herriman, Hal Foster, Walt Kelly, or Alex Raymond. Walt Kelly not only makes my list, he makes *both* my lists. Larson and Herriman also make my comic strip Top Ten. I love both Foster and Raymond's art and recognize the enormous influence they had on their medium, but I've never sat down and read a big chunk of either's work, so no.
My lists now stand at:
Top Ten (comic books): Barks, Gilbert Hernandez, Kelly, Kirby, Perez*, Stevens Top Ten (comic strips): Canniff, Herriman, Kelly, Schulz, Watterson
* provisional
Cei-U! I summon the big leap forwards!
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Post by EdoBosnar on Apr 17, 2022 6:57:51 GMT -5
No to all of them. Like I said before, I'm mainly going to keep strictly strip artists out of this, to keep it from getting confusing for me, but if I were compiling a list of strip creators, Larson, Herriman and Kelly would certainly join Watterson on it. Foster and Raymond have produced gorgeous work and I greatly respect their place in the medium's history, but like Kurt, I've never sat down and read an extended run of anything they've done. Walt Kelly, by the way, produced a considerably quantity of work for comic books early in his career, and I have seen enough of it to say that he ranks quite highly for me in that regard, although he doesn't crack my top ten.
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 17, 2022 7:32:03 GMT -5
Day Twenty-One ChoicesWhy not, let’s have another Strip Sunday! Please, stay dressed everyone. Do any of the following make your list? Gary Larson, George Herriman, Hal Foster, Walt Kelly, or Alex Raymond. Larson: no.
Herriman: no.
Foster: not for a top ten, but in my top 40.
Kelly: no.
Raymond: yes - one of the central reasons for the popularity and advancement of adventure art for print, and early attempts at marketing an artist's work. Brilliant artist with shoulders arguably three consecutive generations talents stood on.
Comic book talent:
Stan Lee
John Romita Sr.* John Buscema Neal Adams* Denny O'Neil Roy Thomas Marv Wolfman George Perez Gil Kane
Comic strip talent:
Charles Schulz Alex Raymond
*Both also had excellent comic strip runs
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 17, 2022 7:34:11 GMT -5
Day Twenty-One ChoicesWhy not, let’s have another Strip Sunday! Please, stay dressed everyone. Do any of the following make your list? Gary Larson, George Herriman, Hal Foster, Walt Kelly, or Alex Raymond. None of them make my list, just too little experience with all of them. Few of their work was reprinted over here (though we bit get a Prince Valiant omnibus a year ago)
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