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Post by tonebone on Mar 29, 2022 8:34:02 GMT -5
I'm not a Kane supporter as much as I just can't really be arsed to care about him enough to think about it. Ham Fisher was also a miserable S.O.B. by most accounts and Al Capp was no jewel. Maybe there's a type. Al Capp was a rapist. Eh... I've read a couple of books that were pretty critical of Capp, and they never mentioned this... what's your source?
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 29, 2022 8:41:28 GMT -5
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 29, 2022 8:48:23 GMT -5
I still struggle to pronounce Wein and Trimpe correctly, myself. Wein especially confuses me, as for years I assumed it was a shortening of Weinstein.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2022 8:59:23 GMT -5
On just the couple of Zoom calls I joined last year with this group, it probably corrected at least 10 names I had been mispronouncing for decades.
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Post by berkley on Mar 29, 2022 9:20:02 GMT -5
On the consensus question, I don't think there is one for American superhero comics - too fan-oriented and therefore based on emotion and subjective favourites rather than any attempt at critical assessment. Comparing it to other pop culture media, I think it probably has the smallest body of criticism of any of them. Look at pop music, for example, and the numbers of books written on that subject and its artists. Comics suffers by comparison - and I would say not only in terms of quantity but also of quality. Interesting you should mention pop music, as I've come across too many that are filled with some of the most biased, fannish opinions passed off as fact, or regurgitate long-debunked "facts," which one of the reasons I no longer buy any books claiming to be an objective history of pop music (especially any about the Rolling Stones). There's a ton of fannish dreck, no doubt about it, and I'm sure it far outweighs the more serious efforts. But in comics there's almost nothing but fannish dreck. Maybe the closest to comics might be television: I haven't seen as much serious criticism of that medium as I have of film.
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Post by tonebone on Mar 29, 2022 9:23:06 GMT -5
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Post by shaxper on Mar 29, 2022 9:25:45 GMT -5
There's a ton of fannish dreck, no doubt about it, and I'm sure it far outweighs the more serious efforts. But in comics there's almost nothing but fannish dreck. Maybe the closest to comics might be television: I haven't seen as much serious criticism of that medium as I have of film. I suspect its more an issue of lack of demand than lack of expertise. If Cei-U!'s upcoming book sells in the tens of thousands, I think it's safe to say more of us semi-experts will quit our jobs to try to emulate his success (and expertise). We certainly showcase a wealth of knowledge and semi-scholarly criticism here that matches or exceeds what you'll find in most of those pop music history books. Brian Cronin would probably enjoy writing a best seller every two years. I'd certainly be shopping publishers for a book about Doug Moench by now. Unfortunately, there isn't enough interest, and even the fan base that would be interested has to choose between spending money on a book about comics and spending money on more comics. With pop music, you can only buy so many albums by your favorite artists.
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Post by MDG on Mar 29, 2022 11:00:51 GMT -5
...but I sometimes tire of him always being the smartest guy in the room... I can identify with that feeling. But part of it might be him feeling he's "keeper of the flame," especially concerning Kirby. There's a ton of fannish dreck, no doubt about it, and I'm sure it far outweighs the more serious efforts. But in comics there's almost nothing but fannish dreck. Maybe the closest to comics might be television: I haven't seen as much serious criticism of that medium as I have of film. I suspect its more an issue of lack of demand than lack of expertise. If Cei-U!'s upcoming book sells in the tens of thousands, I think it's safe to say more of us semi-experts will quit our jobs to try to emulate his success (and expertise). We certainly showcase a wealth of knowledge and semi-scholarly criticism here that matches or exceeds what you'll find in most of those pop music history books. Brian Cronin would probably enjoy writing a best seller every two years. I'd certainly be shopping publishers for a book about Doug Moench by now. Unfortunately, there isn't enough interest, and even the fan base that would be interested has to choose between spending money on a book about comics and spending money on more comics. With pop music, you can only buy so many albums by your favorite artists. Unless somebody can point me to something I'm missing, there's probably room for a good, scholarly (or at least well-researched) podcast on comics--something similar to what The Projection Booth is for movies, or Cocaine and Rhinestones for country music. I just started listening to (cherry-picked episodes) of The History of Rock in 500 songs, and that's excellent as well. Many of these are labors of love, but they get support and some podcasts lead to book deals.
I'm contributing to the Patreon for Marvel by the Month, but because it's fun. I can sometimes get through Comic Book Historians, but their interviews are pretty shallow. I like Voice of Latveria and love Alex Toth in Depth, but they are , obliviously, focused on one topic.
Jacque Nodell of the Sequential Crush blog is starting a podcast that I think should be pretty good.
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Post by tonebone on Mar 29, 2022 12:49:50 GMT -5
...but I sometimes tire of him always being the smartest guy in the room... I can identify with that feeling. But part of it might be him feeling he's "keeper of the flame," especially concerning Kirby. Evanier's writing on Kirby I find especially frustrating. His "Kirby" book basically lays out the trope that's been widely embraced, that Kirby was a dupe, who was taken advantage of by everyone. In the book, his entire career was a rollercoaster of wild success and stupidity. Meanwhile, in reality, he worked feverishly, and honorably, to keep food on his family's table. He made choices that would provide for his family NOW, not really planning for the future. That is commendable, and what a father does for his family, and Evanier sees it as something regrettable, because he wasn't rolling in dough from Captain America and the other heroes he co-created. I feel that's a real disservice to a working man who put his nose to the grindstone and plowed away every day for 50 years.
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Post by shaxper on Mar 29, 2022 14:56:29 GMT -5
Unless somebody can point me to something I'm missing, there's probably room for a good, scholarly (or at least well-researched) podcast on comics--something similar to what The Projection Booth is for movies, or Cocaine and Rhinestones for country music. Many of our featured review threads meet most of that criteria beyond not being podcasts. We do have our CCF Podcast, but it's been out of commission for a while now as Scott has been inundated with other projects. I do agree that the wide variety of other classic comics podcasts I've checked out tend to be light on information and critical evaluation, but that seems to be the nature of so many amateur podcasts -- friends just bantering while the computer records. So why not start your own, my friend, or ask Scott if you can volunteer to help get the CCF Podcast back up and running?
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Post by MDG on Mar 29, 2022 15:18:35 GMT -5
Unless somebody can point me to something I'm missing, there's probably room for a good, scholarly (or at least well-researched) podcast on comics--something similar to what The Projection Booth is for movies, or Cocaine and Rhinestones for country music. Many of our featured review threads meet most of that criteria beyond not being podcasts. We do have our CCF Podcast, but it's been out of commission for a while now as Scott has been inundated with other projects. I do agree that the wide variety of other classic comics podcasts I've checked out tend to be light on information and critical evaluation, but that seems to be the nature of so many amateur podcasts -- friends just bantering while the computer records. So why not start your own, my friend, or ask Scott if you can volunteer to help get the CCF Podcast back up and running? If I had the energy and knowledge, I'd consider it. But right now, I just want something interesting to listen to, not another project.
Ten or more years ago, a couple of film scholars were doing a podcast on film noir and their institutions were accepting at as publication. There might be an opportunity for something like that to turn up as more colleges and universities are starting comic programs.
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Post by Mister Spaceman on Mar 29, 2022 20:03:10 GMT -5
I was 12 when it came out and I liked it. But I'm not sure if I ever rewatched it and have no wish to revisit it. I find most of Spielberg's work too saccharine and emotionally manipulative, as you say. Isn't that the whole point of most art/fiction? To manipulate emotions? I don't think anyone ever set out to artistically leave your emotions untouched. "It was such a great movie... such a rollercoaster ride of feeling cold and numb inside." I think most people who complain about Spielberg's "emotional manipulation" is really complaining that he's GOOD at it. He's achieving what others wish they could in their movies, but haven't cracked the code. OR he's manipulating the wrong emotions - the ones they wouldn't choose to. Like, manipulating my abject fear is ok, but to make me feel distraught because ET is dead, is manipulative. For me, it's that too often Spielberg's manipulations are ham-fisted and obvious and, thus, ineffective. As Ernst Lubitsch said, "The job of the director is to suggest two plus two. Let the viewer say four."
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Post by spoon on Mar 30, 2022 19:11:17 GMT -5
Add me to the list of people who don't really like Batman: Year One. And I like the first issue of Untold Legend of the Batman, but didn't feel #2 and #3 maintain that quality. As I recall it had a silly ending.
I'm sort in the middle on E.T. I think it's good, but find some talk of its greatness to be overstated. I've seen the year Gandhi beat E.T. in an article on the worst Best Picture injustices, and I found that view ridiculous. Gandhi is a really great epic. Obviously, different strokes for different folks, but I don't get how someone considers Gandhi a disappointing Best Picture winner.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 30, 2022 20:28:43 GMT -5
For me, it's that too often Spielberg's manipulations are ham-fisted and obvious and, thus, ineffective. As Ernst Lubitsch said, "The job of the director is to suggest two plus two. Let the viewer say four." This. I never bought into Spielberg's all-too-obvious attempts to milk certain emotions (mainly in his fantasy movies), particularly when the main subject has nothing to make me care about the characters.
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Post by Duragizer on Mar 31, 2022 0:50:03 GMT -5
I don't care for any Spielberg film featuring aliens.
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