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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2022 12:01:15 GMT -5
DC received other proposals for the Superman reboot at the time, including one from Steve Gerber and one from Alan Moore. None of these have ever been made public.
The Alan Moore proposal (more retcon than reboot): It begins with "The Kryptonite Lesson". Lex Luthor reveals to Superman secret proof that every time he was exposed to Red Kryptonite in the past that split him into multiple bodies, it was actually generating a clone and when the effect wore off, they didn't merge back. His original body died, and the clone fully transformed into him complete with full memories. Superman at first rejects this as a trick on Lex's part, but eventually realizes the inevitableness of the truth and struggles with how he can carry on since he isn't the "real Superman".
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Post by badwolf on Mar 25, 2022 13:20:46 GMT -5
Eh... that one does nothing for me.
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Post by zaku on Mar 25, 2022 13:35:21 GMT -5
I would distinguish between Crisis as a comic story, and Crisis as "Reboot of the DC universe". As for the story, I personally liked it. There had been nothing like that before. About the reboot, yes, absolutely, because, let's remember that thiswas absolutely in continuity until the very last page of the very last Superman story before the reboot. Just imagine if Superman had continued as before throughout the 80s. All the new authors who would have tried their hand at the character would have enjoyed making stories like Claremont's one about the "Rape of Miss Marvel", in which they explained how many and what ways Superman was a horrible person.
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Post by MDG on Mar 25, 2022 13:41:19 GMT -5
Heh. In my case, if it wasn't for the reboot, I wouldn't be a Superman fan today. Or at the very least, would've outgrown the character long ago. The one major misstep taken was allowing Byrne to spearhead it rather than Wolfman/Ordway. I agree Swan should've been kept on after the reboot in a greater capacity than he was.
Ironically, prior to the Crisis and seeing his work on the Fantastic Four, John Byrne was literally who I wanted to see on Supeman! But … the existing Superman, not a reboot. As with others, I mainly liked the Man of Steel series (except for the Batman issue), but was less interested in him going forward.
DC received other proposals for the Superman reboot at the time, including one from Steve Gerber and one from Alan Moore. None of these have ever been made public.
When Byrne was starting to heat up after going on X-Men, someone published a interview fanzine called "The John Byrne Treasury" or something like that with a lot of his unpublished sample art. I was surprised that there was tons of Superman, Lois, and Clark in there. I actually didn't like that Barry died either. Even though I was not a big DC reader, he was still the Flash to me. It was a good way to go, though. Barry Allen had to go to officially kill off the Silver Age.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2022 14:00:22 GMT -5
Eh... that one does nothing for me. It was actually just my spoof on his earlier Swamp Thing run Not saying a good spoof, but one nonetheless!
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Post by badwolf on Mar 25, 2022 14:47:44 GMT -5
Eh... that one does nothing for me. It was actually just my spoof on his earlier Swamp Thing run Not saying a good spoof, but one nonetheless! Oh, right, "The Biology Lesson." I actually haven't read Moore's Swamp Thing run yet, but I did just get the third Absolute volume so it will happen soon!
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Post by badwolf on Mar 25, 2022 14:48:26 GMT -5
I actually didn't like that Barry died either. Even though I was not a big DC reader, he was still the Flash to me. It was a good way to go, though. Barry Allen had to go to officially kill off the Silver Age. Why? There were lots of Silver Age characters.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 25, 2022 15:46:10 GMT -5
I would distinguish between Crisis as a comic story, and Crisis as "Reboot of the DC universe". As for the story, I personally liked it. There had been nothing like that before. About the reboot, yes, absolutely, because, let's remember that thiswas absolutely in continuity until the very last page of the very last Superman story before the reboot. Just imagine if Superman had continued as before throughout the 80s. All the new authors who would have tried their hand at the character would have enjoyed making stories like Claremont's one about the "Rape of Miss Marvel", in which they explained how many and what ways Superman was a horrible person. Or...editorial could have said, that stuff was from a bygone era and was pretty silly and we're going to ignore it. Because you can actually do that if you have any intestinal fortitude.
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Post by MDG on Mar 25, 2022 15:56:31 GMT -5
Barry Allen had to go to officially kill off the Silver Age. Why? There were lots of Silver Age characters. Showcase #4 is (was?) generally considered the beginning of the Silver Age
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Post by commond on Mar 25, 2022 17:27:20 GMT -5
Wally West becoming the Flash was most successful thing that came out of Crisis. Can you imagine what they would have done to Barry Allen in the 90s?
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Post by badwolf on Mar 25, 2022 17:52:33 GMT -5
I do like Wally as Flash and collected his series when Geoff Johns was writing it.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 25, 2022 18:02:09 GMT -5
I would distinguish between Crisis as a comic story, and Crisis as "Reboot of the DC universe". As for the story, I personally liked it. There had been nothing like that before. About the reboot, yes, absolutely, because, let's remember that thiswas absolutely in continuity until the very last page of the very last Superman story before the reboot. Just imagine if Superman had continued as before throughout the 80s. All the new authors who would have tried their hand at the character would have enjoyed making stories like Claremont's one about the "Rape of Miss Marvel", in which they explained how many and what ways Superman was a horrible person. Superman continuing on that idiotic, creatively challenged Weisinger method would have ended the character. He was already seen as irrelevant by some late 1960s readers, and even throughout the Bronze Age, he was still saddled with some of the same problems. Almost more than any other DC character, Superman needed COIE to give him a new, fascinating and mature life.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 25, 2022 18:14:57 GMT -5
To this day Marvel has never straightened out its retconning / continuity issues, and in some cases instituted more screw ups. I feel like Marvel tried to pull a sort of Crisis with Onslaught, but instead of the "soft reboot" tried to do a full reboot with Heroes Reborn. I forget if they claimed the intention was always to return to the status quo with Heroes Return, but if Reborn had actually been successful, I question if they wouldn't have stuck with it. Wasn't there one point where the Ultimate universe was going to replace the main MU? maybe after Heroes Reborn was a disaster?
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 25, 2022 18:47:32 GMT -5
Wally West becoming the Flash was most successful thing that came out of Crisis. Can you imagine what they would have done to Barry Allen in the 90s? I'm sure they would have killed him off and replaced him with Wally
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Post by Duragizer on Mar 25, 2022 18:49:05 GMT -5
Heh. In my case, if it wasn't for the reboot, I wouldn't be a Superman fan today. Or at the very least, would've outgrown the character long ago. The one major misstep taken was allowing Byrne to spearhead it rather than Wolfman/Ordway. I agree Swan should've been kept on after the reboot in a greater capacity than he was.
Ironically, prior to the Crisis and seeing his work on the Fantastic Four, John Byrne was literally who I wanted to see on Supeman! But … the existing Superman, not a reboot. As with others, I mainly liked the Man of Steel series (except for the Batman issue), but was less interested in him going forward.
DC received other proposals for the Superman reboot at the time, including one from Steve Gerber and one from Alan Moore. None of these have ever been made public.
I think Byrne had a place in the reboot. A secondary position, on a secondary title. Most of his run was fluff, anyway; I doubt having to kowtow to Wolfman's vision instead of vice-versa would've prevented him from having Superman fight giant robot mummies. I've long wondered how Gerber/Miller's Superman reboot would've turned out. Miller recently wrote Superman: Year One with JRJr. on the art. Ostensibly, it's what he and Gerber envisioned together. But frankly*, Miller's no Gerber. *No pun intended.
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