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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2022 18:27:55 GMT -5
Silver Age Superman is probably some of my all-time favorite comic book reading. It's like biting into a homemade fresh baked chocolate chip cookie right out of the oven. You can give me all the reasons I shouldn't like that cookie, but my senses tell me something different.
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Post by commond on Mar 27, 2022 18:41:36 GMT -5
Don’t forget what Crisis did to Donna Troy, or the Hawkman mess
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Post by Duragizer on Mar 27, 2022 20:02:55 GMT -5
Silver Age Superman is probably some of my all-time favorite comic book reading. It's like biting into a homemade fresh baked chocolate chip cookie right out of the oven. You can give me all the reasons I shouldn't like that cookie, but my senses tell me something different. Won't begrudge you that. Like I said, I don't think the DC Multiverse should've ever been destroyed. Earth-1 & 2 should've continued to exist alongside the post- Crisis Earth so none of the fans would've felt slighted.
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Post by zaku on Mar 28, 2022 4:06:29 GMT -5
Silver Age Superman is probably some of my all-time favorite comic book reading. It's like biting into a homemade fresh baked chocolate chip cookie right out of the oven. You can give me all the reasons I shouldn't like that cookie, but my senses tell me something different. I have nothing against the Silver Age Superman! It was a differente era! The problem arose when they ferried the same character from the Silver Age to the Bronze Age, practically without changing his personality. So some quirks, absolutely (well not always) acceptable in a simpler era, became problematic when placed in a more "realistic" context.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 4:24:17 GMT -5
Question: has anyone ever read CRISIS in one sitting?
When I first acquired a volume (90s, I guess), from the look of it - and the pages are crowded - I knew I had to pace myself. I read one issue a day. Slowly. Still felt cramped.
I wonder, did anyone ever buy it and read it all in one go?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 4:42:25 GMT -5
Question: has anyone ever read CRISIS in one sitting? When I first acquired a volume (90s, I guess), from the look of it - and the pages are crowded - I knew I had to pace myself. I read one issue a day. Slowly. Still felt cramped. I wonder, did anyone ever buy it and read it all in one go? I read it monthly when it first came out, but when I've re-read it a few times over the years in collected form, I actually don't remember. It's been several years for sure, and actually, since I happen to have the day off from work (and it's frigid outside and I have no other plans), I just pulled out the trade and am going to endeavor to do a straight read-through today and see how that goes!
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Post by zaku on Mar 28, 2022 4:53:09 GMT -5
Question: has anyone ever read CRISIS in one sitting? When I first acquired a volume (90s, I guess), from the look of it - and the pages are crowded - I knew I had to pace myself. I read one issue a day. Slowly. Still felt cramped. I wonder, did anyone ever buy it and read it all in one go? I read it in... eight months! (Yep, long story - no actually very short - In Italy they translated and published it sometimes two issues and sometimes a issue every month). www.comicsbox.it/serie/CRISISINFE
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 6:09:20 GMT -5
Ok, I tried getting into re-reading Crisis...can't even make it through the first issue. I still don't find interesting the character of Harbinger or why she needs say the Blue Beetle's help. Pariah seems a bit whiny as well. Where's Uatu when you need him? He'd at least have some great stoic dialogue, or declare for the first time ever (even though it was like #17 in reality) that he'd forsake his vow against interfering for the greater good.
I was hoping maybe as a standalone read (forgetting all the continuity implications) I might enjoy with some fresh eyes after all these years, but I think I'm going to have to pass.
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Post by tonebone on Mar 28, 2022 10:22:16 GMT -5
I have enjoyed the insight of tarkintino in this thread. It has given me food for thought. Tarkintino, in relation to the post you’ve just made, what would be your response to the idea that DC should have ignored (or brushed off) any nit-picking letters about continuity? Is there any compelling reason you think DC couldn’t/shouldn’t have done that? I think DC was responding to something other than "continuity nit picking". I think they were looking at their entire line up and realizing that, unlike Marvel, whose universe was built upon more sophisticated stories from the 60's, theirs was built upon children's stories from the 40's and 50's. The multiple universes was a tad confusing, I guess (to no one I ever knew, however), but what really gummed up their "continuity" was that the continuity included the silliness that wowed the kids decades ago. It's not so much "confusing" that Superman was in love with a mermaid, but it is EMBARASSING and childish. So, it wasn't the sheer quantity of continuity, but the quality. Just my opinion.
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Post by tonebone on Mar 28, 2022 10:24:15 GMT -5
If I've ever read a pre-Crisis DC comic it was probably a random Batman/Detective Comics issue whose cover caught my eye. So I have no horse in the race when it comes to the actual changes, or lack of promised changes that happened because of COIE. However like others have posted, I do dislike it for the trend it set for constant repeating reboots. I also didn't read it until the late 90's, so I also didn't have the context of DC's continuity at the time it was released. As far as the story itself; I've read it at least 3 times, and yet I couldn't tell you much about it. It seems it never really made sense to me reading it, and seemed that it was over-written (is that even a word?) and could have been condensed down to 4 issues and told the same story. Art was good though. Mr Perez was knocking it out of the ballpark then. So I guess I will vote bad at 45, just because it hasn't managed to impress me. Coupled with the starting of the trend of reboots. I completely agree. It's not great as a "collected" read. But back in the day, in the heat of it all, I loved it. I think mostly for the spectacle and the weight DC gave it at the time.
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Post by tonebone on Mar 28, 2022 10:25:58 GMT -5
DC received other proposals for the Superman reboot at the time, including one from Steve Gerber and one from Alan Moore. None of these have ever been made public.
The Alan Moore proposal (more retcon than reboot): It begins with "The Kryptonite Lesson". Lex Luthor reveals to Superman secret proof that every time he was exposed to Red Kryptonite in the past that split him into multiple bodies, it was actually generating a clone and when the effect wore off, they didn't merge back. His original body died, and the clone fully transformed into him complete with full memories. Superman at first rejects this as a trick on Lex's part, but eventually realizes the inevitableness of the truth and struggles with how he can carry on since he isn't the "real Superman". Well, THAT simplifies things.
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Post by tonebone on Mar 28, 2022 10:30:42 GMT -5
If Jenette Kahn hadn't replaced Carmine Infantino as publisher, I doubt there would be a DC Comics today. Time-Warner would've probably cancelled the line and licensed its IP to another publisher (likely Marvel). Cei-U! I summon the uncomfortable alternative! According to Shooter, that was indeed in the works. It got to the point of brainstorming sessions, generating plots, and some scripting, before DC changed their mind.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 10:41:30 GMT -5
If Jenette Kahn hadn't replaced Carmine Infantino as publisher, I doubt there would be a DC Comics today. Time-Warner would've probably cancelled the line and licensed its IP to another publisher (likely Marvel). Cei-U! I summon the uncomfortable alternative! According to Shooter, that was indeed in the works. It got to the point of brainstorming sessions, generating plots, and some scripting, before DC changed their mind. I never knew all this. I did a quick search and this came up and seems to cover Shooter's comments. This is really fascinating to digest. jimshooter.com/2011/08/superman-first-marvel-issue.html/
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Post by tonebone on Mar 28, 2022 11:05:33 GMT -5
And the answer might be "yes, that was the whole point in some ways of Crisis and specifically the Byrne reboot!" But my conjecture is...what if they hadn't waited 8 years and struck while the iron was hot with a blockbuster motion picture behind it? What might that have looked like. And would we have even been in that situation by the mid-80's. Very thought-provoking! Why did they wait 8 years? Because marketing, by its' very nature, is reactive, not proactive. From the viewpoint of WB/DC, all was good... tv shows, movies, underoos... why do anything to rock that boat. No one was thinking "How do we shore this up so that the NEXT generation still loves these characters". Instead, they react to no one loving their characters, and try to fix them, based on what worked in the past. Crisis, for good or ill, was a BOLD move, which they probably felt was akin to ripping off a band-aid, in the hopes of preserving these characters for the future. During the marketing explosion of the 70's no one was thinking that far ahead, and were just busy counting money.
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Post by tonebone on Mar 28, 2022 11:07:42 GMT -5
I, too, collected Super Powers figures with a passion (best toyline ever!). That was sort of my “gateway drug” into DC, although the annuals I bought (UK) were reprinting stuff from the late 70s/early 80s. Earliest memory is a UK annual reprinting the SUPER POWERS mini-series. I was a little "aged out" of the action figure scene by the time Super Powers came around. In your opinion, what makes it so special? Your assessment that it was the best ever is thrown around A LOT in action figure circles, but I could never really pin down what people loved about it. Was it the variety? The faithfulness to the characters? I would love to know, from a fan.
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