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Post by tartanphantom on Feb 15, 2022 22:20:16 GMT -5
The most egregious one that I remember that really turned me off to his newer stories was in the wake of Civil War when a villain incinerated him literally down to the adamantium skeleton, and he regrew and came back. I need a word stronger than absurd to convey how ridiculous that amount of power creep was. His power creep was already making him boring, but piling on such utter BS like that really rubbed me the wrong way.
That proves it.... Wolverine was actually bitten by a radioactive planarian.That would make this scenario so much more plausible.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Feb 15, 2022 23:00:40 GMT -5
Nah, he still had a lot of good stories left by that point and before it got really out of hand. I agree. And I actually personally like Wolverine’s solo adventures over any X-Men story save maybe X-Men: TAS as I watched that before I ever got into the actual comics.
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Post by badwolf on Feb 16, 2022 9:56:23 GMT -5
Is the Wolverine omnibus worth getting then? I've never read his ongoing solo series.
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Post by impulse on Feb 16, 2022 9:59:20 GMT -5
Nah, he still had a lot of good stories left by that point and before it got really out of hand. I agree. And I actually personally like Wolverine’s solo adventures over any X-Men story save maybe X-Men: TAS as I watched that before I ever got into the actual comics. I also watched X-Men: TAS early on in my comics journey. I think I had stuck my toe in the comics water first, but TAS came out pretty early in my journey, and I thought it was the coolest thing I had ever seen by that point. That said, it's hard to watch now. It looked great and was fairly "serious" for its time, but the quality of art and storytelling in animation is lightyears better these days. Also, Wolverine suffered a lot from Worf syndrome and being intentionally nerfed as it was a family-friendly show. He talks and acts like a badass, but he hardly gets to do anything and gets his ass handed to him pretty regularly.
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Post by dbutler69 on Feb 16, 2022 10:24:43 GMT -5
Wolverine is just ridiculous at this point of his potential with his mutant powers to the point, that as I mentioned in the other thread, the last issue of his series I bought he foungt Galactus and won. At that point I wasn't sure what I was reading and looked back on the cover sure that was I was reading was a parody in an issue of MAD. I wasn't. It really was an issue of Wolverine I was suppose to take seriously. I remember that issue and thinking it was a bit silly, but if I recall correctly there were plot contrivances that helped, no? It's not like they played it as Wolverine straight-up defeating him. The most egregious one that I remember that really turned me off to his newer stories was in the wake of Civil War when a villain incinerated him literally down to the adamantium skeleton, and he regrew and came back. I need a word stronger than absurd to convey how ridiculous that amount of power creep was. His power creep was already making him boring, but piling on such utter BS like that really rubbed me the wrong way. Didn't Magneto tear his adamantium skeleton out of him? That's pretty ridiculous. Wolverine is basically immortal and un-killable by now. Power creep is one reason I voted for him. Plus, I'm waiting for some stories that show how he met Caesar, Alexander the Great, etc., because he's actually 3,000 years old. However, I see that Batman related characters are doing "well" in this poll.
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Post by impulse on Feb 16, 2022 10:44:12 GMT -5
I remember that issue and thinking it was a bit silly, but if I recall correctly there were plot contrivances that helped, no? It's not like they played it as Wolverine straight-up defeating him. The most egregious one that I remember that really turned me off to his newer stories was in the wake of Civil War when a villain incinerated him literally down to the adamantium skeleton, and he regrew and came back. I need a word stronger than absurd to convey how ridiculous that amount of power creep was. His power creep was already making him boring, but piling on such utter BS like that really rubbed me the wrong way. Didn't Magneto tear his adamantium skeleton out of him? That's pretty ridiculous. Wolverine is basically immortal and un-killable by now. Power creep is one reason I voted for him. Plus, I'm waiting for some stories that show how he met Caesar, Alexander the Great, etc., because he's actually 3,000 years old. However, I see that Batman related characters are doing "well" in this poll. Yes, and it nearly killed him. It ripped out of his pores and poked holes, and he was hanging on by a thread. It was such a strain that it short-circuited his healing factor for a while, so he was basically powerless. It made for some interesting stories for a while with the power balance inversion. Then the feral Wolverine thing happened...oh, late 90s Marvel.
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 16, 2022 11:47:26 GMT -5
Oddly enough.................I NEVER really liked Wolverine... until Hugh Jackman played him in the movies.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Feb 16, 2022 14:24:57 GMT -5
I agree. And I actually personally like Wolverine’s solo adventures over any X-Men story save maybe X-Men: TAS as I watched that before I ever got into the actual comics. I also watched X-Men: TAS early on in my comics journey. I think I had stuck my toe in the comics water first, but TAS came out pretty early in my journey, and I thought it was the coolest thing I had ever seen by that point. That said, it's hard to watch now. It looked great and was fairly "serious" for its time, but the quality of art and storytelling in animation is lightyears better these days. Also, Wolverine suffered a lot from Worf syndrome and being intentionally nerfed as it was a family-friendly show. He talks and acts like a badass, but he hardly gets to do anything and gets his ass handed to him pretty regularly. I agree. Some years back the whole series was on Netflix streaming, so I watched it. And if not for nostalgia it would have been difficult to watch. But that being all that I knew of the X-Men when I got into comics I have fond memories of watching it. But I guess when you are 13 something it's different than 30 something lol
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Feb 16, 2022 14:31:34 GMT -5
Is the Wolverine omnibus worth getting then? I've never read his ongoing solo series. I remember enjoying it at the time I read it. I got into X-Men right before AoA and then went back and read the older issues. I think for someone that has never read Wolverine's solo stuff the first 50 issues or so are pretty solid both in writing and art. There were some good stories after #50, but they were fewer. After #100 it started the slow decent into being bad in my opinion. Also if you don't know much about the character at that time, #50 (and maybe a few previous issues) deal with what people have mentioned in this thread where they decide to try and explain Logan's then mysterious past. Lots of readers apparently didn't like that. So depending on what is in the omnibus it could be worth it. Especially if they include the mini series before his ongoing. I've still not read it but have heard good things about the mini-series. It's on my want list, but mostly for the Mr Fixit appearance. I'm not terribly rushed to read it otherwise.
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Post by badwolf on Feb 16, 2022 18:09:39 GMT -5
Is the Wolverine omnibus worth getting then? I've never read his ongoing solo series. I remember enjoying it at the time I read it. I got into X-Men right before AoA and then went back and read the older issues. I think for someone that has never read Wolverine's solo stuff the first 50 issues or so are pretty solid both in writing and art. There were some good stories after #50, but they were fewer. After #100 it started the slow decent into being bad in my opinion. Also if you don't know much about the character at that time, #50 (and maybe a few previous issues) deal with what people have mentioned in this thread where they decide to try and explain Logan's then mysterious past. Lots of readers apparently didn't like that. So depending on what is in the omnibus it could be worth it. Especially if they include the mini series before his ongoing. I've still not read it but have heard good things about the mini-series. It's on my want list, but mostly for the Mr Fixit appearance. I'm not terribly rushed to read it otherwise. Thanks. Looks like it's out of print already. A little while back I was thinking of adding it to my wish list. The first omni only has #1-10, because there is a ton of other stuff in it. Second one goes up to #30.
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Post by SJNeal on Feb 16, 2022 21:32:22 GMT -5
^ ^ ^ I believe vol. 1 was recently reprinted. Unless that too is already OOP! The material in those first two omnis is pretty good, imho, despite not being a huge fan. That was before he was overexposed and as adamwarlock said, it was the back end of the first solo series that really went downhill.
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Post by Marv-El on Feb 17, 2022 1:27:00 GMT -5
I remember that issue and thinking it was a bit silly, but if I recall correctly there were plot contrivances that helped, no? It's not like they played it as Wolverine straight-up defeating him. The most egregious one that I remember that really turned me off to his newer stories was in the wake of Civil War when a villain incinerated him literally down to the adamantium skeleton, and he regrew and came back. I need a word stronger than absurd to convey how ridiculous that amount of power creep was. His power creep was already making him boring, but piling on such utter BS like that really rubbed me the wrong way. Didn't Magneto tear his adamantium skeleton out of him? That's pretty ridiculous. Wolverine is basically immortal and un-killable by now. Power creep is one reason I voted for him. Plus, I'm waiting for some stories that show how he met Caesar, Alexander the Great, etc., because he's actually 3,000 years old. However, I see that Batman related characters are doing "well" in this poll. But that action made sense to me though. As in well why hasn't Magneto done to that him already? Before, under Claremont, every time Logan faced off against Magneto, he would simply seize the metal in Logan's body and fling him away or some variation thereof. Plus, it wasn't like Logan just got up and walked away after that. It took Professor X & Jean Grey both to keep him alive till they could get him serious medical attention. Then the reveal of his natural bone claws (that was HUGE back then) and now what does he do without the adamantium? They created and explored some great consequences for his character as a result of that long overdue form of attack by Magneto.
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Post by impulse on Feb 17, 2022 10:54:36 GMT -5
But that action made sense to me though. As in well why hasn't Magneto done to that him already? Before, under Claremont, every time Logan faced off against Magneto, he would simply seize the metal in Logan's body and fling him away or some variation thereof. Plus, it wasn't like Logan just got up and walked away after that. It took Professor X & Jean Grey both to keep him alive till they could get him serious medical attention. Then the reveal of his natural bone claws (that was HUGE back then) and now what does he do without the adamantium? They created and explored some great consequences for his character as a result of that long overdue form of attack by Magneto. Yes, and Magneto's attack was a response to Wolverine pulling the gloves off and trying (and nearly succeeding) to kill him. In fact, I think he grievously wounded him IIRC. It's been a long time since I've read it. In fact, it always bothered me that they imply Wolverine all but gutted him as Magneto basically said "this is the end of the road for both of us" and then they show the aftermath and it's..nothing. Literally nothing. Tore up his shirt. I get that they weren't allowed to get as graphic at the time, but it really made the panel confusing and didn't sell the scene. But yes, he barely survived and was basically both depowered and had no adamantium, and his deadly enemies didn't stop coming at him. It was an interesting until they utterly crapped the bed, but that is a story for another time.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Feb 17, 2022 11:20:40 GMT -5
From that scene after his recovery outside talking to Jubilee to Cyber (?) breaking his claws showed a lot of the vulnerability he had without his adamantium. It was just that his attitude never changed despite it. He'd still go after more than he really could handle or barely could. So the issues after this incident up till #100 when he gets it back really grounded him and made for some interesting stories. One of my favorite scenes in the latter issues is with Juggernaut picking a fight with Logan while him and Cannonball were in a bar having a drink. Kubert did good with showing just how much bigger he is than Logan.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 17, 2022 11:27:59 GMT -5
Yes, and Magneto's attack was a response to Wolverine pulling the gloves off and trying (and nearly succeeding) to kill him. In fact, I think he grievously wounded him IIRC. It's been a long time since I've read it. In fact, it always bothered me that they imply Wolverine all but gutted him as Magneto basically said "this is the end of the road for both of us" and then they show the aftermath and it's..nothing. Literally nothing. Tore up his shirt. I get that they weren't allowed to get as graphic at the time, but it really made the panel confusing and didn't sell the scene.
Magneto LOVED that shirt!!! No way he was going to let Logan get away with such wanton vandalism!
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