|
Post by Duragizer on Aug 29, 2021 0:23:35 GMT -5
Depending on who is supposed to know this one does or does not bother me. Jim Gordon is an accomplished detective. The idea that he hasn't figured out that Bruce Wayne is Batman strains my suspension of disbelief more than the idea that he has. And I personally feel that Robbie Robertson figured out Peter Parker was Spider-man in the 70s. But superhero funnybooks are so inherently silly that it's a tightrope walk. I've heard that there was a reveal in the late 1990s or early 2000s when Aunt May said that she knew Peter was Spider-Man. I think it was part of May dying, but later getting retconned away as an actress disguised as her. That's a pretty awful idea, because Aunt May often complained about Spider-Man to Peter. If she really knew, then she would have been really screwing with her nephew's mind all those years. In the issue in question, May (or the "genetically altered actress", if you want to acknowledge the garbage retcon) made it clear that though she knew the truth deep down, she was in a state of denial because she couldn't face the knowledge that Peter was putting himself in danger as Spidey.
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Aug 29, 2021 0:47:10 GMT -5
One that I especially hate and that I've complained about many times is building up one character at the expense of another. Trying to make your character seem cool by having him/her defeat and belittle another one always rubs me the wrong way: doesn't matter if I've never heard of the characters in question or even if the one being boosted is a favourite and the other isn't, it'll always be lame and a sign of bad, lazy writing to me. I especially hated Doctor Voodoo bitch-slapping Dormammu so that new readers who didn't know him would think he was stronger than Dr. Strange and worthy to be the new Sorcerer Supreme. **** Another tired trope that has to stop: saying that someone is "the next step in human evolution". That makes no sense whatsoever. Evolution doesn't work like that, and can't be observed from one generation to the next (and certainly not in a single individual). The entire concept depends on a progressive change in allelic frequency in a population, something that can only be determined in hindsight, and usually after many, many, many generations.
Very much agree about the DV-Dormammu thing - though I admit I only ever saw it in an online preview - which thereby served its purpose, from my POV, though I suppose not from Marvel, Inc's.
Your point about how evolution works reminds me of an exchange between Timothy Leary and David Suzuki on the short-lived but much-regretted (by me, at least) late-70s Canadian talk show 90 Minutes Live: Leary was going on about how humanity was on the cusp of 'evolving' into a higher state of consciousnness, etc and biologist Suzuki protested that this wasn't how evolution worked, that it took place over countless generations,etc. To make it even more memorable, Kurt Vonnegut was the other guest and sat there visibly enjoying himself and taking it all in.
|
|
|
Post by tolworthy on Aug 29, 2021 2:41:02 GMT -5
This happens more in movies than in comics I think. Have kids smarter and wittier than the adults. GOD I HATE THAT! It is one of the reasons I stopped reading FF over the last several years. Not to mention that there has to be a child version of almost every adult hero. Tell me about it! I already have serious, serious issues with how Mr Fantastic can just invent anything, any time. But fine, if that is the story you want to tell., I suppose we can find some excuse, based on his enormous and highly unique experience. But then Valeria is smarter...?
|
|
|
Post by tolworthy on Aug 29, 2021 3:00:39 GMT -5
1. Costumes that obstruct your vision. E.g. hoods that almost cover your eyes. How can you fight? How can you see the guy sneaking up on your left?
I was going to list all kinds of costume problems, e.g. women having painted on costumes (no pockets), Batman's cape, etc. But most of them are parts of the sexy power fantasy, so OK. But I think we could let heroes **actually see** without ruining the fun. 2. Shrunken head syndrome. REAL artists can make guys look muscular AND draw normal sized heads.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Aug 29, 2021 7:32:54 GMT -5
One and a corollary that I don't see as often but were ubiquitous, particularly in genre fiction and comics for at least a century that never cease to drive me nuts. Love at first sight: Yeah...I get that this happens in real life. I also think it's stupid there. It's more often lust at first sight, which I absolutely understand, but people can't face up to that. But this was just the standard way for man and woman to get together in comics and genre fiction for so long. The corollary actually drives me even more nuts: "I'll let everyone go if heroine X marries me." Let's see, you're the dictator of BeEfDeastan, the most powerful person in the country, but you MUST marry this arbitrary woman that you know nothing about, almost certainly have no common interests and is guaranteed to despise you and want poison your oatmeal, but sure. Burroughs was horrible for this one. And I've seen it already a few times in early MU stories. It drives me bat-guano crazy. It was pointed out in a podcast I listened to recently that " Marry" might be a euphemism for having sex with. But , you know, the 60's were an innocent time.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Aug 29, 2021 7:35:32 GMT -5
Any smart person that's some sort of 'scientist' is an expert in every field ever. See Tony Stark in the MCU. Most of those films are less than tolerable because of ridiculous inflating of characters into some sort of expert in fields having nothing to do with that which they've invested their lives, ideas and energies into (to get them to the point of becoming the subject of the story). In other words, Stark and time travel...no. But in the movies, Stark is a genius level human being. In one of the movies he read a book about one roof the sciences and understood it. It's more plausible that a genius could be a quick study for other sciences.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Aug 29, 2021 7:40:22 GMT -5
as to my personal trope that I find annoying? "everything you know (or thought you know) is WRONG" ugh..I hate that. It's not a bad trope considering everyone keeps secrets. But It is overdone. Good example: Swamp Thing is not Alec Holland, Holland died in the swamp from chemical burns. Bad Example: Tony Starks parents were really agents, not the Inventor that helped to start Shield and the mom is still alive.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Aug 29, 2021 7:43:13 GMT -5
Something similar applied on "House," where I would never want to be a patient at the hospital, a modern-bay counterpart of Bedlam where they diagnose you and treat you for everything from eczema to Guillain-Barré to dengue fever in a few days,nearly kill you with each new diagnosis, and then, after a sweep of your mom's home, (a technique so often used in the real world inhabited by, well, everyone not in that show), one of the doctors discovers something in the oven cleaner your mom started using when she became pregnant with you, and deliver you of a parasitic twin, solving all your problems, except a vague sense of melancholy when you think of the buddy you never knew. Man, that got old fast. I remember the "House" formula described somewhere as going through the first and second incorrect diagnosis before getting to the final and correct diagnosis. It got super old super fast. Yes it did. And what was a bit annoying also was that every cast member had a quick wit and hey all had comebacks to whatever was said. Maybe that's where Bendis got it from.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Aug 29, 2021 7:48:35 GMT -5
How about - Supporting Cast Member Has Long Known/Probably Knows Superhero's Real Identity for Years. It's one thing if Commissioner Gordon keeps getting snuck up on in the middle of the night by a dark, mysterious, gravelly voiced cloaked figure moments after bidding his friend Bruce Wayne good-night, but it's entirely another if he's known for years that said dark, mysterious figure is his actually his friend Bruce Wayne sneaking around the corner, putting on his costume, and returning moments later speaking in a gravelly voice from a cape draped in front of his face. It just makes the hero look like an idiot - "What do you mean you've known all this time who I am? You mean you knew that all those 'I am vengeance, I am the night!' speeches in my Clint Eastwood voice was being done by the same guy you saw pretending to trip over a birthday cake and urinate himself earlier in the day just to keep you off my trail?" Depending on who is supposed to know this one does or does not bother me. Jim Gordon is an accomplished detective. The idea that he hasn't figured out that Bruce Wayne is Batman strains my suspension of disbelief more than the idea that he has. And I personally feel that Robbie Robertson figured out Peter Parker was Spider-man in the 70s. But superhero funnybooks are so inherently silly that it's a tightrope walk. I finally agree with you , Slam. There goes my childhood...
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Aug 29, 2021 7:51:17 GMT -5
Sorry for all the posts, I'm just catching up on my CCF reading after a busy week.
|
|
|
Post by james on Aug 29, 2021 8:32:01 GMT -5
This happens more in movies than in comics I think. Have kids smarter and wittier than the adults. GOD I HATE THAT! It is one of the reasons I stopped reading FF over the last several years. Not to mention that there has to be a child version of almost every adult hero. Tell me about it! I already have serious, serious issues with how Mr Fantastic can just invent anything, any time. But fine, if that is the story you want to tell., I suppose we can find some excuse, based on his enormous and highly unique experience. But then Valeria is smarter...? Exactly!!!
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Aug 29, 2021 9:12:19 GMT -5
See Tony Stark in the MCU. Most of those films are less than tolerable because of ridiculous inflating of characters into some sort of expert in fields having nothing to do with that which they've invested their lives, ideas and energies into (to get them to the point of becoming the subject of the story). In other words, Stark and time travel...no. But in the movies, Stark is a genius level human being. In one of the movies he read a book about one roof the sciences and understood it. It's more plausible that a genius could be a quick study for other sciences. That's where the misunderstanding of the word / designation "genius" comes in from various writers in comics and films; "genius" does not mean capable of understanding every field or discipline, as each are dissimilar from the other, and whatever field that was the focus of his studies. The MCU wildly exaggerates the capabilities of Stark, who simply lacks the education and experience with something as specific as time travel to create a plausible theory. By making MCU Stark an expert at almost everything, it renders other characters' technical strengths weak or unimpressive, since the audience is to believe that with enough time / interest, Stark would eventually excel in other fields as well (e.g., Pym's 'Pym Particles', etc.).
|
|
Roquefort Raider
CCF Mod Squad
Modus omnibus in rebus
Posts: 16,397
Member is Online
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 29, 2021 19:29:33 GMT -5
This happens in movies more often than in comics, but still: kids who f$#@ things up for everyone because they're incapable of following simple instructions like "stay in this room and don't go looking for your dog".
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 29, 2021 21:04:15 GMT -5
Going back to the secret identity thing, how about the 'lets make it so they see me and my alter ego at the same time so they'll completely forget all other evidence to the contrary' trope. Superman did that SO MANY TIMES. As if no one could possibly consider a person in a costume and a mask could be a different person.
Even worse with Iron Man, who already looks like a robot to start with, would it be such a stretch for someone to guess the suit is empty sometimes?
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Aug 29, 2021 21:41:44 GMT -5
One of the most amusing scenes in an 8TH MAN episode was when Dr. Spectra damaged 8th Man's computer mind, causing temporary amnesia. As Spectra watched 8th Man escape his lab, from a distance, he saw 8th Man change identity... into Tobor's SECRETARY. Spectra was shocked. "Who'd ever believe it? 8th Man is really a YOUNG GIRL!" While 8th Man instinctively made his way to the lab of Dr. Genius (who said, "I would recognize my creation no matter what identity he took"), Spectra made for Tobor's detective agency office, to confront his secretary that he KNEW HER SECRET!!! (Which, of course, she had no idea what the heck he was talking about.) When a cured 8th Man arrived to save her, Spectra sure was confused.
To this day, I've never seen another show like that, that was capable of being VERY dark, moody, serious and spooky... and AT THE SAME TIME, funny as hell.
|
|