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Post by berkley on Aug 4, 2021 23:35:36 GMT -5
On Russian naming conventions, the patronymic is the designation of the father's name, i.e., if a guy is named, say, Vladimir Volkov, and his dad's name is Ivan, he'd be referred to as Vladimir Ivanovich, where Ivanovich is the patronymic - and it's part of his official name, so it's used in ID documents, etc. It's also the polite way to refer to somebody. If Ivan Volkov has a daughter, Katarina let's say, she would be called Katarina Ivanovna. In the Black Widow's case, 'Romanoff' is supposed to be her last name. The more correct rendering of that surname would be Romanova - which is the female form, as Russian (and several other Slavic languages) have gendered renderings of surnames. The male form is Romanov. The "-off" ending is an old-fashioned and now largely discarded way of rendering Russian and other Slavic names that have the "-ov" suffix, although back in the 1960s when Black Widow was introduced, it was still very widely used. As for Natalia/Natasha, Natasha is the diminutive form of Natalia, kind of like Susie is for Susan. However, Natasha is often a given name at birth - although I'm not certain how common that is among Russians. It is among other Slavic peoples, e.g., in Croatia it's a fairly common name among women, while there's far fewer women who are named Natalia.Those patronymics can be a bit of a hurdle for when reading Russian novels in translation, as a given character might be referred to in various ways - the first name, some nickname version of the first name, the surname, or the patronymic, which often sees to be the most frequent. You have to make sure you remember all those if you want to follow who's talking about whom at any given moment. Those patronymics can be a bit of a hurdle for when reading Russian novels in translation, as a given character might be referred to in various ways - the first name, a diminutive or nickname version of the first name (which can sometimes sound quite different), the surname, or the patronymic. And the patronymic often seems to be the most frequently used, which throws me off at times. You have to make sure you remember all those if you want to follow who's talking about whom at any given moment. I either never knew or had forgotten Natasha was a diminutive of Natalia. That makes me think that along with Alice Cooper's Black Widow they should use Van Morrison's Natalia in BW's next movie appearance.
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 5, 2021 6:39:06 GMT -5
On Russian naming conventions, the patronymic is the designation of the father's name, i.e., if a guy is named, say, Vladimir Volkov, and his dad's name is Ivan, he'd be referred to as Vladimir Ivanovich, where Ivanovich is the patronymic - and it's part of his official name, so it's used in ID documents, etc. It's also the polite way to refer to somebody. If Ivan Volkov has a daughter, Katarina let's say, she would be called Katarina Ivanovna. In the Black Widow's case, 'Romanoff' is supposed to be her last name. The more correct rendering of that surname would be Romanova - which is the female form, as Russian (and several other Slavic languages) have gendered renderings of surnames. The male form is Romanov. The "-off" ending is an old-fashioned and now largely discarded way of rendering Russian and other Slavic names that have the "-ov" suffix, although back in the 1960s when Black Widow was introduced, it was still very widely used. As for Natalia/Natasha, Natasha is the diminutive form of Natalia, kind of like Susie is for Susan. However, Natasha is often a given name at birth - although I'm not certain how common that is among Russians. It is among other Slavic peoples, e.g., in Croatia it's a fairly common name among women, while there's far fewer women who are named Natalia.Those patronymics can be a bit of a hurdle for when reading Russian novels in translation, as a given character might be referred to in various ways - the first name, some nickname version of the first name, the surname, or the patronymic, which often sees to be the most frequent. You have to make sure you remember all those if you want to follow who's talking about whom at any given moment. Those patronymics can be a bit of a hurdle for when reading Russian novels in translation, as a given character might be referred to in various ways - the first name, a diminutive or nickname version of the first name (which can sometimes sound quite different), the surname, or the patronymic. And the patronymic often seems to be the most frequently used, which throws me off at times. You have to make sure you remember all those if you want to follow who's talking about whom at any given moment. I either never knew or had forgotten Natasha was a diminutive of Natalia. That makes me think that along with Alice Cooper's Black Widow they should use Van Morrison's Natalia in BW's next movie appearance. I read a bunch of those Russian novels in my younger days, and it was so hard keeping track of the characters! They'd variously be referred to by any one of several names, or nicknames. I started writing stuff down to keep it straight in my head!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2021 15:26:22 GMT -5
Those patronymics can be a bit of a hurdle for when reading Russian novels in translation, as a given character might be referred to in various ways - the first name, a diminutive or nickname version of the first name (which can sometimes sound quite different), the surname, or the patronymic. And the patronymic often seems to be the most frequently used, which throws me off at times. You have to make sure you remember all those if you want to follow who's talking about whom at any given moment. I either never knew or had forgotten Natasha was a diminutive of Natalia. That makes me think that along with Alice Cooper's Black Widow they should use Van Morrison's Natalia in BW's next movie appearance. I read a bunch of those Russian novels in my younger days, and it was so hard keeping track of the characters! They'd variously be referred to by any one of several names, or nicknames. I started writing stuff down to keep it straight in my head! I'm a huge fan of Russian literature and man can I relate...The Brothers Karamazov is one of my all-time favorites, but could Alexei/Alyosha have more names throughout the book? I think he had like eight. A number of similar variations, but still!
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