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Post by Duragizer on Jul 29, 2021 23:48:14 GMT -5
Romita version. Original is generic and bland, and the Miller version doesn't have enough black for a Black Widow costume. But maybe I'm just biased in favour of the red/black aesthetic.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,707
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Post by shaxper on Jul 30, 2021 8:25:50 GMT -5
I hated the Miller redesign. I love how he put Natasha and Selina Kyle in the same boring gray leotard and got branded a genius for doing both.
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 30, 2021 10:35:00 GMT -5
That "original" costume didn't show up until her sixth appearance. In the first five stories she was an elegantly dressed femme fatale.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jul 30, 2021 10:47:41 GMT -5
That "original" costume didn't show up until her sixth appearance. In the first five stories she was an elegantly dressed femme fatale. There's our winner!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 12:48:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I've always really liked the "pre-costume" original appearances as well. Serious question, again as an outsider on the Romita costume...I really don't see that much difference between a black bodysuit and a primarily gray one (I know there are some other differences, but overall they both feel pretty simple). If Romita had drawn the "Miller" version back in the day but in his artistic style and same hair he used for his original version, and Miller the "Romita" version (and likewise with his updated hairstyle), do you think this would have changed the survey results? Maybe the belt, collar, etc. are bigger differences than I'm thinking, but I wonder how much the "Romita touch" may influence this. (edit: I'll respond to my own question...I suspect this is a "skintight black outfit head-to-toe crowd )
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 30, 2021 13:20:27 GMT -5
When I looked up her early appearances, I noticed that the GCD can't decide whether her last name is Romanoff or Romanova. Is anyone familiar with Russian naming conventions? Is there a correct version?
PS. Just noticed that they have both "Natasha" and "Natalia" as her first name. Some indexes give her two complete names - "Natasha Romanoff; Natalia Romanova".
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Post by profh0011 on Jul 30, 2021 13:49:51 GMT -5
Cathy, of course, debuted 16 months before Natasha.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jul 30, 2021 14:38:56 GMT -5
When I looked up her early appearances, I noticed that the GCD can't decide whether her last name is Romanoff or Romanova. Is anyone familiar with Russian naming conventions? Is there a correct version? PS. Just noticed that they have both "Natasha" and "Natalia" as her first name. Some indexes give her two complete names - "Natasha Romanoff; Natalia Romanova". I don't exactly know, but I believe that Russians have a patronymic, and the man's usually ends on "off" (or "ov) and the womans' ends in "ova" (or something similar) so I am guessing that Romanova would be correct.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jul 30, 2021 15:11:14 GMT -5
On Russian naming conventions, the patronymic is the designation of the father's name, i.e., if a guy is named, say, Vladimir Volkov, and his dad's name is Ivan, he'd be referred to as Vladimir Ivanovich, where Ivanovich is the patronymic - and it's part of his official name, so it's used in ID documents, etc. It's also the polite way to refer to somebody. If Ivan Volkov has a daughter, Katarina let's say, she would be called Katarina Ivanovna. In the Black Widow's case, 'Romanoff' is supposed to be her last name. The more correct rendering of that surname would be Romanova - which is the female form, as Russian (and several other Slavic languages) have gendered renderings of surnames. The male form is Romanov. The "-off" ending is an old-fashioned and now largely discarded way of rendering Russian and other Slavic names that have the "-ov" suffix, although back in the 1960s when Black Widow was introduced, it was still very widely used. As for Natalia/Natasha, Natasha is the diminutive form of Natalia, kind of like Susie is for Susan. However, Natasha is often a given name at birth - although I'm not certain how common that is among Russians. It is among other Slavic peoples, e.g., in Croatia it's a fairly common name among women, while there's far fewer women who are named Natalia.
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Post by profh0011 on Jul 30, 2021 16:08:47 GMT -5
Then there's "Tatiana Romanova", who debuted on film in October 10, 1963 (but wasn't seen in the USA until April 8, 1964). The novel came out on April 8, 1957.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jul 31, 2021 9:49:58 GMT -5
I hated the Miller redesign. I love how he put Natasha and Selina Kyle in the same boring gray leotard and got branded a genius for doing both. I don't recall Miller's Black Widow redesign being especially highly regarded by most people. People who branded him a genius for his work on Daredevil were probably more impressed by how he handled the Kingpin and Bullseye without redesigning them. Is the Year One Catwoman redesign known to be Miller's and not Mazzucchelli's?
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Post by profh0011 on Jul 31, 2021 13:36:10 GMT -5
I hated the Miller redesign. I love how he put Natasha and Selina Kyle in the same boring gray leotard and got branded a genius for doing both. I thought the Jim Balent version was a big improvement over Miller, although in his case, he gave her gigantic bazooms.
Now, Darwyn Cooke's Catwoman design I REALLY liked.
But, I got VERY annoyed when Cooke left after only one 4-part story, and for the next 2 years they kept having artists doing "Cooke-lite".
I came back when Gulacy took over. Gulacy told me in an e-mail how he eventually got fired off the book following an AVALANCHE of non-stop complaints about his art, EVEN THOUGH sales had definitely gone UP while he was on the book. That was a big "WTF?" moment for me. I started buying again when Paul started on it... and QUIT buying when he left. (He was kicked off one issue into a 3-part story, and the other 2 parts were done by someone noticably doing "Gulacy-lite". It reminded me of when Jim Craig replaced him on MOFK.)
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Post by SJNeal on Aug 2, 2021 19:17:26 GMT -5
Bomber jackets are cool. Gonna go with this look, because it's what she was sporting when I first started reading comics; and we all know that whenever we respectively started is always the best! And can someone please explain the Natasha Romanoff / Natalia Romanova thing? I've ignored it for decades, just chalking the difference up to Russian vs. English translation, but I just decided that's not a satisfying answer...
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Post by EdoBosnar on Aug 3, 2021 5:46:51 GMT -5
(...) And can someone please explain the Natasha Romanoff / Natalia Romanova thing? I've ignored it for decades, just chalking the difference up to Russian vs. English translation, but I just decided that's not a satisfying answer... Well, sure. Scroll up a very little bit...
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Post by SJNeal on Aug 4, 2021 19:46:52 GMT -5
(...) And can someone please explain the Natasha Romanoff / Natalia Romanova thing? I've ignored it for decades, just chalking the difference up to Russian vs. English translation, but I just decided that's not a satisfying answer... Well, sure. Scroll up a very little bit... I guess it pays to pay attention, huh? Thank you sir!
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