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Post by Graphic Autist on May 19, 2021 12:36:36 GMT -5
I also enjoyed the first and third Christoper Nolan Batmovies. The second one was just OK. And, these are just one comic lover's opinion.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 19, 2021 12:42:46 GMT -5
I also enjoyed the first and third Christoper Nolan Batmovies. The second one was just OK. And, these are just one comic lover's opinion. I second this post! Ooops... wrong thread.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 19, 2021 13:58:32 GMT -5
I don’t like Mask of the Phantasm either. The best Batman movie is Batman: The Movie from 1966. All the Batman movies are stupid and silly. But Batman: The Movie is the only one that doesn’t take itself seriously. The other Batman movies takes themselves way too seriously for me to ignore all the dumb stuff in the dumb scripts. For live action, the '66 film is my favorite. I thought it was a great action film, as a kid, and a fun action/comedy, as an adult. I remember reading an interview with Adam West, in the early 90s, talking about the Burton film and saying "Wouldn't it be great if my batman showed up and rescued the film one? People would love it!" At the time, I thought, "Oh, hell no!" In retrospect, if that had happened in Batman Returns, I would have enjoyed the hell out of it. It would have made up for all the gross out scenes, overly convoluted schemes, giant penguins, and the Circus Gang stupidity. I always felt they should have gotten West to portray Thomas Wayne, in the '89 film, both as a nod to the past and a bone to the anti-tv show pitchfork & torch crowd, so they could see him shot dead (not West, just the campy Batman persona). I was very happy with "The Grey Ghost" episode of BTAS, where he is a retired actor who had portrayed a mystery man on television, who was an inspiration to young Bruce. That was a fitting tribute.
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Post by foxley on May 19, 2021 14:07:23 GMT -5
I don’t like Mask of the Phantasm either. The best Batman movie is Batman: The Movie from 1966. All the Batman movies are stupid and silly. But Batman: The Movie is the only one that doesn’t take itself seriously. The other Batman movies takes themselves way too seriously for me to ignore all the dumb stuff in the dumb scripts. For live action, the '66 film is my favorite. I thought it was a great action film, as a kid, and a fun action/comedy, as an adult. I remember reading an interview with Adam West, in the early 90s, talking about the Burton film and saying "Wouldn't it be great if my batman showed up and rescued the film one? People would love it!" At the time, I thought, "Oh, hell no!" In retrospect, if that had happened in Batman Returns, I would have enjoyed the hell out of it. It would have made up for all the gross out scenes, overly convoluted schemes, giant penguins, and the Circus Gang stupidity. I always felt they should have gotten West to portray Thomas Wayne, in the '89 film, both as a nod to the past and a bone to the anti-tv show pitchfork & torch crowd, so they could see him shot dead (not West, just the campy Batman persona). I was very happy with "The Grey Ghost" episode of BTAS, where he is a retired actor who had portrayed a mystery man on television, who was an inspiration to young Bruce. That was a fitting tribute. West did voice Thomas Wayne in the Batman: The Brave and the Bold episode "Chill of the Night!". And Julie Newmar was Martha Wayne.
(And, in further nods to other version of Batman on TV, Kevin Conroy was the Phantom Stranger and Mark Hamill was the Spectre.)
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Post by codystarbuck on May 19, 2021 14:17:43 GMT -5
For live action, the '66 film is my favorite. I thought it was a great action film, as a kid, and a fun action/comedy, as an adult. I remember reading an interview with Adam West, in the early 90s, talking about the Burton film and saying "Wouldn't it be great if my batman showed up and rescued the film one? People would love it!" At the time, I thought, "Oh, hell no!" In retrospect, if that had happened in Batman Returns, I would have enjoyed the hell out of it. It would have made up for all the gross out scenes, overly convoluted schemes, giant penguins, and the Circus Gang stupidity. I always felt they should have gotten West to portray Thomas Wayne, in the '89 film, both as a nod to the past and a bone to the anti-tv show pitchfork & torch crowd, so they could see him shot dead (not West, just the campy Batman persona). I was very happy with "The Grey Ghost" episode of BTAS, where he is a retired actor who had portrayed a mystery man on television, who was an inspiration to young Bruce. That was a fitting tribute. West did voice Thomas Wayne in the Batman: The Brave and the Bold episode "Chill of the Night!". And Julie Newmar was Martha Wayne.
(And, in further nods to other version of Batman on TV, Kevin Conroy was the Phantom Stranger and Mark Hamill was the Spectre.)
Yeah, I caught that, though it's been a while. he did a fine job in the Super Powers Team: Galactic Guardians episode, "The Fear", which retold the origin story (which involved some of the future BTAS animation people).
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Post by badwolf on May 19, 2021 15:39:51 GMT -5
Agreed about the Schumacher films, but I liked all of Nolan's. Mask of the Phantasm was okay, but I think I liked the Mr. Freeze animated film (Sub-Zero?) better.
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Post by tarkintino on May 19, 2021 15:41:05 GMT -5
I haven't seen Returns in years, but I did not think it was good at the time. Suffered from "too many villains" syndrome. Re watching Batman 1989 a few times, I progressively find it worse with each viewing. The last time I found the whole fight in the Cathedral quite bad. I thought the Burton Batman movies were awful and overrun with all of Burton's quirks, horrible casting choices and a lack of understanding of who Batman was supposed to be.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 17:39:02 GMT -5
I don’t like Mask of the Phantasm either. The best Batman movie is Batman: The Movie from 1966. All the Batman movies are stupid and silly. But Batman: The Movie is the only one that doesn’t take itself seriously. The other Batman movies takes themselves way too seriously for me to ignore all the dumb stuff in the dumb scripts. Hell yeah. I'll never understand anybody who even tolerates the Nolan Batman movies. Not an ounce of entertainment, but plenty of cringy-ness.
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Post by foxley on May 20, 2021 2:41:23 GMT -5
We do seem to be getting quite a way away from retcons (and I include myself in this). Perhaps we need a 'Why All Batman Movies Suck' thread?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 20, 2021 8:58:01 GMT -5
Jean Grey was not attracted to Wolverine at all when they first met. His crush on her was mostly used to show how clueless he was in society, as shown in X-Men #101 and Iron Fist #15. The retcon dates from 1986's Classic X-Men #1 (written by Chris Claremont himself, so I guess that makes it kosher).
I don't know what motivated it... Perhaps Chris felt that her leaving the team in X-Men #94 needed some kind of explanation? Perhaps he wanted the newly-resurrected Jean Grey to have a thing with by-then extremely popular Logan, since Scott Summers had been married away?
Anyhoo... I don't even now how things stand between all these characters now. They all died and came back several times since I stopped reading.
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Post by tonebone on May 20, 2021 11:06:38 GMT -5
I don't mean to be contrarian, but I hate BOTH of the Burton Batman movies, and I hate BATMAN RETURNS the most. It is the only ONLY movie I have ever paid for and walked out in the middle of it. Catwoman, obviously, was the bright part of the movie, but EVERY thing else about it drove me crazy. Batman machine guns and sets fire to the goons in the street, Cabwoman's origin is nonsense, the Max Shreck character was boring and ONLY slightly interesting because it was Walken in a wig, but the thing that REALLY killed it for me was the Penguin. Burton took a classic Batman rogue and turned him into something that is Penguin in name only. He's a mutant with physical deformities that seem penguin-like ( ) is DROWNED by his parents, and found and raised by PENGUINS in... Gotham City? He has a beak nose, and flippered hands, and is raised by penguins, learns to speak, read, and dress, yet eats raw fish (with green blood). He has an army of sentient penguins and is, despite his handicap and limited education (by penguins, remember)a technological weapons genius. It was so freaking stupid and disturbing and disrespectful to the original character. It was on par with Shaq's portrayal of Steel. No relation. This portrayal, sadly, even was foisted on the Animated Series, to an extent. To millions of kids, Penguin has flipper fingers. I decided that if Burton showed him ONE MORE TIME, eat a raw fish, I was leaving. He did. I did. Burton made 2 good movies... Pee Wee's Big Adventure, and Beetlejuice. Everything else is, in my opinion, stylized, pretentious, overwrought crap. And don't get me started on Planet of the Apes.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 20, 2021 11:30:19 GMT -5
We do seem to be getting quite a way away from retcons (and I include myself in this). Perhaps we need a 'Why All Batman Movies Suck' thread? YES!!
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Post by Hoosier X on May 20, 2021 11:32:50 GMT -5
I don't mean to be contrarian, but I hate BOTH of the Burton Batman movies, and I hate BATMAN RETURNS the most. It is the only ONLY movie I have ever paid for and walked out in the middle of it. Catwoman, obviously, was the bright part of the movie, but EVERY thing else about it drove me crazy. Batman machine guns and sets fire to the goons in the street, Cabwoman's origin is nonsense, the Max Shreck character was boring and ONLY slightly interesting because it was Walken in a wig, but the thing that REALLY killed it for me was the Penguin. Burton took a classic Batman rogue and turned him into something that is Penguin in name only. He's a mutant with physical deformities that seem penguin-like ( ) is DROWNED by his parents, and found and raised by PENGUINS in... Gotham City? He has a beak nose, and flippered hands, and is raised by penguins, learns to speak, read, and dress, yet eats raw fish (with green blood). He has an army of sentient penguins and is, despite his handicap and limited education (by penguins, remember)a technological weapons genius. It was so freaking stupid and disturbing and disrespectful to the original character. It was on par with Shaq's portrayal of Steel. No relation. This portrayal, sadly, even was foisted on the Animated Series, to an extent. To millions of kids, Penguin has flipper fingers. I decided that if Burton showed him ONE MORE TIME, eat a raw fish, I was leaving. He did. I did. Burton made 2 good movies... Pee Wee's Big Adventure, and Beetlejuice. Everything else is, in my opinion, stylized, pretentious, overwrought crap. And don't get me started on Planet of the Apes. Planet of the Apes is AWFUL. But Ed Wood is one of my favorite movies of the 1990s.
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Post by MDG on May 20, 2021 11:43:39 GMT -5
... Burton made 2 good movies... Pee Wee's Big Adventure, and Beetlejuice. Everything else is, in my opinion, stylized, pretentious, overwrought crap. And don't get me started on Planet of the Apes. Planet of the Apes is AWFUL. But Ed Wood is one of my favorite movies of the 1990s. Yeah, Ed Wood and Pee Wee are probably his best movies--certainly the only ones I'd re-watch by choice.
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Post by tonebone on May 20, 2021 11:47:48 GMT -5
I also enjoyed the first and third Christoper Nolan Batmovies. The second one was just OK. And, these are just one comic lover's opinion. I totally agree with you! In general, I liked Nolan's Batman movies. Like you, Dark Knight was my least favorite. I remember all the praise heaped on it at the time and I just felt "meh" about it. Ledger's Joker (which was responsible for 90% of the praise, I feel) was good, and I really liked the fact that he cited different origins for himself. The plot was overly contrived, and Two-Face's story and origin I found to be uninteresting. The swapping of Katie Holmes with Maggie Gillenhall (Jakes's less-pretty sister) was distracting and should have just been a new character. With all the praise for the "serious crime noir/detective plot" left me thinking "I've read a HUNDRED better Batman stories in the comics." I feel like most of Nolan's movies spend the first act setting up the rules, and the 2nd and 3rd breaking them. They are certainly entertaining and watchable, and full of creativity, but under scrutiny, tend to fall apart. I feel like Dark Knight falls into that category. I feel like Nolan is at his best when he sticks to a solid, linear story. Plus, I love the fact that Dark Knight Rises ended with Batman having one of those days where you just can't get rid of a bomb.
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