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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 8:51:09 GMT -5
Less is never more in comics. Just look how many Spider-Man “spin-off characters” are running around the Marvel Universe now. It makes me pine for the days when the only other Spider-Man was Scarlet Spider.
As we all know, in 1963, the X-Men appeared for the first time. They were Angel, Beast, Cyclops, Marvel Girl and Iceman. All led by Professor X. Then, in the 70s, we had a new X-team consisting of the likes of Wolverine, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Rogue and Storm (I hope I haven’t forgotten anyone). I wouldn’t be without the likes of Wolverine, but it seems things have become too unwieldy nowadays.
The X-Men were never the most simplistic group, their storylines were often convoluted and more “grown up” than, say, Spidey. It’s got worse since that time, though. I mean, at one point, we had two teams of X-Men: Red and Blue. In the 80s, we had X-Factor. Then X-Force. Goodness knows how many mutants are around now.
Less really is more, whether we’re talking about Spider-Man, Hulk, X-Men, etc. I mean, is the Hulk’s universe any better for having in it Red Hulk (General Ross) and Red She-Hulk (Betty Ross)? Weren’t Hulk and She-Hulk enough?
I don’t even mind “Marvel 2099”. Seeing future incarnations of the likes of Spidey, Punisher, Hulk, Doom and X-Men was and is fun. In the mainstream Marvel Universe, though, I think it’s too much.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the mutants had been allowed to be rare? Imagine if the “new” 70s X-Men had been the final word on mutantkind. Two teams would have been fine. Or, preferably, one team, but with a mixed roster, each member not being part of every mission. Wouldn’t it have meant more if it had been revealed that mutants were an extreme rarity on Earth - and only a handful of people had the mutant gene?
In years to come, I suspect there’ll be more mutants than ever. And I can see them going down the silly route of having people revealed as mutants (Coming Soon: Aunt May is a mutant. Or not. Perhaps. It’s all about the dollars!).
Thoughts?
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Post by hondobrode on Sept 9, 2020 9:12:07 GMT -5
You could kick it off with a whispered, "No more mutants..."
Now that's class !
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Post by Ozymandias on Sept 9, 2020 9:12:30 GMT -5
Less is never more in comics. Just look how many Spider-Man “spin-off characters” are running around the Marvel Universe now. It makes me pine for the days when the only other Spider-Man was Scarlet Spider. I liked it better when the only other "arachnid" around was the Black Widow.
And of course it's all about the dollars, even when they're giving comics away, it's for money
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Post by Ozymandias on Sept 9, 2020 9:16:48 GMT -5
You could kick it off with a whispered, "No more mutants..." Now that's class ! I'm sure that's what Morrison was aiming for with E Is for Extinction, or something remarkably close, but we all knew it wouldn't stick.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 9, 2020 9:17:22 GMT -5
Fewer mutants? I agree with everything taxidriver1980, and don't really have much to add to it. I definitely agree with the "less is more" philosophy here. I suppose eventually everybody in the MU will become a mutant and they'll all be part of some X-title.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 9:18:19 GMT -5
You could kick it off with a whispered, "No more mutants..." Now that's class ! I'm sure that's what Morrison was aiming for with E Is for Extinction, or something remarkably close, but we all knew it wouldn't stick. That is true, but if we reach the stage where Aunt May is revealed to be a mutant, and gets a mini-series that ties in with the latest X-crossover, I’m gonna think those are some tainted dollars!
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Post by Ozymandias on Sept 9, 2020 9:20:48 GMT -5
That is true, but if we reach the stage where Aunt May is revealed to be a mutant, and gets a mini-series that ties in with the latest X-crossover, I’m gonna think those are some tainted dollars! I don't know, would it be worse than seeing her in a mini-skirt? (Some things can't be unseen)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 9:20:58 GMT -5
Fewer mutants? I agree with everything taxidriver1980, and don't really have much to add to it. I definitely agree with the "less is more" philosophy here. I suppose eventually everybody in the MU will become a mutant and they'll all be part of some X-title. I can never resist a wrestling analogy (it’s a major character flaw!), and it’s not quite the same, but in WCW, we went from the nWo having Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall - to everyone and anyone being part of it, diluting it badly. Not everyone needs to be a JLA member. Or Avengers member. Or a mutant.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 9, 2020 9:49:37 GMT -5
Fewer mutants? I agree with everything taxidriver1980, and don't really have much to add to it. I definitely agree with the "less is more" philosophy here. I suppose eventually everybody in the MU will become a mutant and they'll all be part of some X-title. I can never resist a wrestling analogy (it’s a major character flaw!), and it’s not quite the same, but in WCW, we went from the nWo having Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall - to everyone and anyone being part of it, diluting it badly. Not everyone needs to be a JLA member. Or Avengers member. Or a mutant. Yeah, if they came up with another Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, when they got to the Avengers entry, they'd just have to say "everybody: see every other entry in this series".
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 9, 2020 9:57:50 GMT -5
I'm sure that's what Morrison was aiming for with E Is for Extinction, or something remarkably close, but we all knew it wouldn't stick. That is true, but if we reach the stage where Aunt May is revealed to be a mutant, and gets a mini-series that ties in with the latest X-crossover, I’m gonna think those are some tainted dollars! I'd rather see her as a herald of Galactus: Or as Aunt Ant-Man:
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Post by tarkintino on Sept 9, 2020 10:14:49 GMT -5
Less is never more in comics. Just look how many Spider-Man “spin-off characters” are running around the Marvel Universe now. It makes me pine for the days when the only other Spider-Man was Scarlet Spider. As we all know, in 1963, the X-Men appeared for the first time. They were Angel, Beast, Cyclops, Marvel Girl and Iceman. All led by Professor X. Then, in the 70s, we had a new X-team consisting of the likes of Wolverine, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Rogue and Storm (I hope I haven’t forgotten anyone). I wouldn’t be without the likes of Wolverine, but it seems things have become too unwieldy nowadays. The X-Men were never the most simplistic group, their storylines were often convoluted and more “grown up” than, say, Spidey. It’s got worse since that time, though. I mean, at one point, we had two teams of X-Men: Red and Blue. In the 80s, we had X-Factor. Then X-Force. Goodness knows how many mutants are around now. Less really is more, whether we’re talking about Spider-Man, Hulk, X-Men, etc. I mean, is the Hulk’s universe any better for having in it Red Hulk (General Ross) and Red She-Hulk (Betty Ross)? Weren’t Hulk and She-Hulk enough? I don’t even mind “Marvel 2099”. Seeing future incarnations of the likes of Spidey, Punisher, Hulk, Doom and X-Men was and is fun. In the mainstream Marvel Universe, though, I think it’s too much. Wouldn’t it be nice if the mutants had been allowed to be rare? Imagine if the “new” 70s X-Men had been the final word on mutantkind. Two teams would have been fine. Or, preferably, one team, but with a mixed roster, each member not being part of every mission. Wouldn’t it have meant more if it had been revealed that mutants were an extreme rarity on Earth - and only a handful of people had the mutant gene? In years to come, I suspect there’ll be more mutants than ever. And I can see them going down the silly route of having people revealed as mutants (Coming Soon: Aunt May is a mutant. Or not. Perhaps. It’s all about the dollars!). Thoughts? In a word...yes.
There was a point at Marvel where mutants seemed to be the central focus of everything. No matter how incredibly popular Spider-Man was at various stages of the character's published life (even at a time when he simultaneously appeared in three monthlies) , he was not the overexposed, all-important character or idea for Marvel in the way the mutants were. Its one of the reasons why I can only tolerate the early, raw X-Men of the 60s, as they were truly unique, with their lives more isolated--in other words, they were not routinely dropping in on and/or influencing other Marvel characters.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 10:37:16 GMT -5
Seems much better, eh? Less really is more, whether we’re talking about wrestling (God, I miss the era of fewer PPVs) or comics.
This dawned on me in the late 90s when the Punisher’s book had an “Onslaught” tie-in. I thought, ‘Why do the X-Men and their problems have to intrude on Frank Castle’s book?’
Someone shared a meme on Facebook of Wolverine, coloured green, with his usual claws protruding. It was titled “The Incorrigible Wulk”. There was a sarcastic tagline along the lines of, ‘Because We Ran Out Of Ideas’.
Now, I know that some, with respect, will talk about comic readers getting the comics that their buying habits deserve. I’m not really here to debate the semantics of that. As ever, this is an emotive topic. Fact is, I think the mutant numbers have made the X-Men “less unique”. How can there even be a phrase such as “less unique”, it makes no sense? But I have used it. I find it hard to care about the X-Men now because of the fact that, on the present trajectory, there’ll be more mutants within the superhero “community” than not. It gets back to my original point.
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Post by Dizzy D on Sept 9, 2020 14:27:27 GMT -5
No
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 14:40:02 GMT -5
Anything to add, just out of interest?
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Post by beccabear67 on Sept 9, 2020 16:23:26 GMT -5
The first good mutant added to the original five X-Men was The Mimic circa #19, so they had the world to themselves for all of eighteen issues and a little over two years. Usually I liked a new mutant, but when it got so there were so many idiosyncratic dialect characters I started to get fed up, so you had "Och Boy-O" Banshee, "Da Tovarische" Colossus, "Ach Mein Freund" Nightcrawler, plus whatever the heck Storm and Wolverine might be saying (and as a Canadian I can't recall anyone here calling everyone Darlin' or Bub like he does), having Rogue doing her southern "Sugah" all over the place and Gambit with his cajun "Cher", things felt way too crowded around the X-mansion.
Some additions I did take to: the first alternate future offspring Rachel/Phoenix held my interest at first (but then didn't seem to particularly lead anywhere), though the rest after that, Cable, X-Man, Dark Beast, even Bishop and characters who came back with him... not thrilled at all. Marrow from the morlocks was/is interesting. So as with the Legion Of Superheroes, if they can bring something unique, but not in yet more dialect, sure come on in!
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