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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 20:28:30 GMT -5
Well, that logo was the problem, as the World Wildlife Fun beat them to the punch for trademarking the initials "WWF." They could have continued to call themselves the World Wrestling Federation; but, they wouldn't have been able to use the logo. ironically, they started out as the WWWF, the World Wide Wrestling Federation; so they could have gone that route. Thing of it is, the WWF was never actually the legal name for the company. Under Vince Sr it was Capitol Sports and under Jr, it was Titan Sports, until 1998, when they changed to World Wrestling Federation Inc, then the lawsuit forced them to change to World Wrestling Entertainment Inc. Most promotions operated under names that were different than the fans or magazines used. Central States (Kansas City) was Heart of America Sports Attractions. Mid-Atlantic was Jim Crockett Promotions. Georgia Championship Wrestling was ABC Booking, then Mid-South Sports, then Georgia Championship Wrestling. The AWA was the Minneapolis Boxing and Wrestling Club. What I find ridiculous is that Vince is obsessed with not using the word "wrestling," yet he kept that as part of the company name. I'm surprised he didn't change it to the WSE, World Sports Entertainment. I mean, how silly is it that the world's most successful pro wrestling promoter is ashamed of being a wrestling promoter? You can call it Dudes Rolling Around in their Underwear; but, it's still pro wrestling to the world. Vince really needs therapy. Correct on all COUNTS! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 20:35:48 GMT -5
Thing is, I don't like what the World Wildlife Fund did because Vince McMahon's wrestling company has done so much to promote animals during its existence. I mean, they've promoted an Animal, Snake, Bulldog, Superfly, 2 Killer Bees, Hawk, Gorilla, Dog, Rhino, Raven, Dragon, etc. We've seen them employ a pig farmer. Jake Roberts' snake and Koko B. Ware's parrot gained much exposure. They even raised awareness of a Missing Link and Mantaur, two species that may not exist.
Who has done more to promote wildlife than the World Wrestling Federation?
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Post by wickedmountain on Nov 22, 2019 0:22:42 GMT -5
I actually hate the term "sports entertainment". I have been to wrestling events. With friends. Not one of us ever said, "Are we ready to go and see some sports entertainment?" I have never said to anyone, "I've bought some sports entertainment tickets." Didn't Vince dictate that the term "superstars" be used instead of "wrestlers"? You are right about the panda charity vs. wrestling company link, but I will never stop being angry. I should join Vince in his therapy session... Yes he did and by treating it not as a sport he has now hurt the wrestling business ugh |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 7:21:46 GMT -5
Can you say more on that point, Wickedmountain? It's intriguing, and I'd love to read more thoughts on that (if you have the time).  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 9:31:58 GMT -5
Can you say more on that point, Wickedmountain? It's intriguing, and I'd love to read more thoughts on that (if you have the time). I think I know the answer ... give me a day or two to come up with one. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 12:10:36 GMT -5
Tito Santana To Release Autobiography During Holiday Season
Back in the day, I enjoyed Santana's work. I was rooting for him to win the Intercontinental Championship tournament held in 1990. I remember rooting for him against the Warlord at SummerSlam 1990. I think it's great he appeared at eight consecutive WrestleMania events, and was disappointed he wasn't on the card at WM IX (didn't he wrestle in a dark match against Papa Shango, though?). I'll have to Google it to be sure, but someone told me Santana got a pinfall win over the Undertaker in 1991 during a world tour, possibly an untelevised match that took place in Santana's home country. Santana was a great wrestler for me because he gave it his all and was often an underdog.
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Post by wickedmountain on Nov 22, 2019 16:37:23 GMT -5
Can you say more on that point, Wickedmountain? It's intriguing, and I'd love to read more thoughts on that (if you have the time). Well for one because I'm friends with several former and current wrestlers in real life , It's disrespectful to them because now it's harder to sell what they say and do to make it semi believable . Many people especially in TN and the south believed it was real and these guys really hated each other. I miss the days when fans believed or were able to spend disbelief that wrestling to them was or seemed or looked real. Another way it hurt wrestling was now some guys went to far with stuff they did like the hardcore extreme stuff not the mild hardcore stuff like from Memphis or Knoxville matches. but the tables on fire with guys going through them Like in ECW..... I liked ECW they just took it too far more injuries and it hurt there TV show they had on TNN. But why did they do this because Vince JR said it's a entertainment and no longer a sport but even before he said that his characters that were created for his federation in the mid 90s proved this . Doink the clown, etc ECW did that to try and make it seem more real and Legitimate . Also the tables were not gimmick ed they were real tables Tommy dreamer said he got slivers in him from the tables because of the way they broke etc. Oh and Real barbed wire used it went through half of Sabu's bicep he completed the match with it duck taped together. |
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Post by wickedmountain on Nov 22, 2019 16:49:19 GMT -5
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 22, 2019 20:22:19 GMT -5
Tito Santana To Release Autobiography During Holiday Season
Back in the day, I enjoyed Santana's work. I was rooting for him to win the Intercontinental Championship tournament held in 1990. I remember rooting for him against the Warlord at SummerSlam 1990. I think it's great he appeared at eight consecutive WrestleMania events, and was disappointed he wasn't on the card at WM IX (didn't he wrestle in a dark match against Papa Shango, though?). I'll have to Google it to be sure, but someone told me Santana got a pinfall win over the Undertaker in 1991 during a world tour, possibly an untelevised match that took place in Santana's home country. Santana was a great wrestler for me because he gave it his all and was often an underdog. I preferred him outside the WWF; but, he adapted well to it, without completely burying his old style. He worked in Georgia, before coming to the WWF and I saw him there. He used to use a reverse indian deathlock as a finisher and it looked great as a pinning move. Once he was in the WWF it was a flying forearm and that was harder to buy into, for me. Also, he was stuck in that punch-kick WWF style and didn't get to show how great a worker he was, as often. Every once in a while, with the right opponent, he got to go full out. Here's Tito in the Georgia days, from the Columbus, GA tv (they had their own tv for the Georgia promotion).... Dale Veasey, his opponent, worked undercard and tv for GCW. Santanna, at that point, had wrestled in Florida and Minnesota, as well as some time in San Antonio and Mid-South. He went to school at West Texas State, which was a major recruiting ground for wrestling, in Texas, thanks to the Funks (they went to school there). Santana, under his given name, Merced Solis, played on the football team, which was quarterbacked by Tully Blanchard. He was signed to the Kansas City Chiefs, but cut in training camp. he played one season in the CFL, before going into wrestling. At one point, in either Florida or the AWA, he wrestled as Richard Blood, which is Ricky Steamboat's given name. Steamboat had been told to change it because it was a name for a heel and he was a babyface and they used him as the son of popular Florida wrestler Sammy Steamboat (who was a legit Hawaiian; Ricky is of Japanese heritage). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 20:29:43 GMT -5
What worked for me with Santana, and this is something that I think the WWF lost as time went on, was that he made wrestling look legitimate in the sense that you truly believed he was trying to win a match even when outmatched.
When one watches legitimate sports, like soccer, even the underdogs are trying 100% to win. Even if outmatched. Manchester United are a top team, but if a lower-league team plays them in the FA Cup, that lower-league team really wants to win.
Tito Santana gave it his all every time. For me, he made the WWF look like a legitimate sport (he wasn't the only one). Whether battling the Warlord, Shawn Michaels or the Mountie, he had that ring presence which, to me, conveyed the fact that he was going all out to win a legitimate contest. He was solid and dependable.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 22, 2019 21:22:57 GMT -5
Jim Cornette's side of things (obvious NSFW language)....
Jim used that line, in 1986, about Big Bubba Rogers (aka The Big Bossman) and Sam Kinison had made a similar joke, relating to the Ethiopian Famine. Co-host Brian Last makes a good point that it is not a particularly good good, it's an old joke, and probably shouldn't have been used in 2019, but did not believe any racist intent. He's known Corny 25 years and they have talked about racism, anti-semitism and homophobia and none of that describes Cornette. They pointed out this was recorded 6 weeks ago, edited and broadcast without anyone raising an objection or concern. He also pointed out that outrage didn't come during the live broadcast or soon after. it came on Twitter, from the same people who have been attacking Cornette for his criticisms of AEW and modern wrestling and overly-sensitive wrestlers and fans. He took exception to Dave Lagana talking about apologies, placating the AEW crowd, who will then just look for another excuse to attack. he decided it wasn't fun anymore and quit and hung up. So, whether or not the NWA was thinking of firing him, he had had enough, decided he didn't want ot bring heat on the NWA because he supports what they are trying to do and would rather just stay at home and spend his time with Stacey and Harley Quinn (their dog) and do things he enjoys.
Like Brian, I think the joke was in questionable taste, even just on the starving Ethiopian end of it and probably should have been left out. However, as he said, they had 6 weeks to do something about it and didn't have a problem until a group of people, most of whom are suburban white 20-somethings, started pouncing on it because they don't like Cornette
Cornette has told the story of working for Crockett and cutting a promo on Ronnie Garvin, after they did an angle where Cornette hit him with a fireball (flash paper) and burned his face (there were some actual burns, as the paper stuck to Garvin's fave, for a moment). He said something to the effect of Garvin being lit up like the Challenger. He said the mike went dead and the studio lights went down and Dusty Rhodes, the producer, came out of the booth, pulled Cornette aside and said, "Don't mention the Challenger, baby, and do it again." They went back to recording and Cornette cut a new promo, without making reference to the Challenger explosion. That is all that needed to happen here; but, a very select audience has a laser aimed at Cornette and is ready to pounce on anything he says to get him silenced, through whatever venue, the NWA, his podcast osts, Youtube, etc; not because he says racist or offensive things but because he criticizes their favorite wrestlers, their political or religious beliefs, or their lack a maturity. He knows how to push buttons and he does it. It's a childish impulse in him; but, it was also his job, for 30 years. Wrestling is not an environment for "normal" people.
Anyway, Corny wished the NWA well and encouraged people to watch as he is a fan of their wrestling and what they are trying to do and he removed himself from the equation to take heat off of them.
I do think this will affect the next batch of tapings, as they will be hard pressed to find someone half as good as Cornette to do play-by-play and color for this style of wresting and this kind of program.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 21:36:42 GMT -5
Can you say more on that point, Wickedmountain? It's intriguing, and I'd love to read more thoughts on that (if you have the time). Well for one because I'm friends with several former and current wrestlers in real life , It's disrespectful to them because now it's harder to sell what they say and do to make it semi believable . Many people especially in TN and the south believed it was real and these guys really hated each other. I miss the days when fans believed or were able to spend disbelief that wrestling to them was or seemed or looked real. Another way it hurt wrestling was now some guys went to far with stuff they did like the hardcore extreme stuff not the mild hardcore stuff like from Memphis or Knoxville matches. but the tables on fire with guys going through them Like in ECW..... I liked ECW they just took it too far more injuries and it hurt there TV show they had on TNN. But why did they do this because Vince JR said it's a entertainment and no longer a sport but even before he said that his characters that were created for his federation in the mid 90s proved this . Doink the clown, etc ECW did that to try and make it seem more real and Legitimate . Also the tables were not gimmick ed they were real tables Tommy dreamer said he got slivers in him from the tables because of the way they broke etc. Oh and Real barbed wire used it went through half of Sabu's bicep he completed the match with it duck taped together. I was thinking about this for some time and you hit a homerun on this. |
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Post by wickedmountain on Nov 23, 2019 0:02:52 GMT -5
Interesting video of hogan here talking about a fan incident recently .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 6:17:07 GMT -5
Today marks 25 years since Survivor Series 1994 aired:  At the time, this was a return to form from my perspective. The 1992 event is one of the worst WWF PPVs ever. The 1993 event was only marginally better. So 1994 was good, but not just in relation to 1992, but on its own merits too. This aired at a time when there were fewer PPVs. Where feuds developed. Where feuds seemed to matter more. And where every match felt important. The Bad Guys (The 1-2-3 Kid, The British Bulldog, Fatu, Razor Ramon and Sione) took on The Teamsters (Diesel, Jeff Jarrett, Jim Neidhart, Owen Hart and Shawn Michaels). This was a pretty good opener. Lots of heat and hype. And Diesel's face turn after Shawn Michaels had accidentally superkicked Diesel for the third time, the previous two being at SummerSlam 1994 and on an episode of WWF Action Zone. Bizarrely, the referee counted out all five of the Teamsters when Diesel began arguing with his teammates. This did allow Ramon to be the sole survivor, which left me happy, but given either Diesel or Michaels were the legal men in the ring, I am not sure how the rest of the Teamsters, who had not tagged in, could be counted out. Wrestling logic, eh? The Royal Family (Cheesy, Jerry Lawler, Queasy and Sleazy) took on Clowns R' Us (Doink the Clown, Dink the Clown, Pink the Clown and Wink the Clown). You know, it is what it is. A bit of light humour. I quite enjoyed it. And one has to remember that wrestling is all-ages. I am sure this appealed to very young viewers and families. Lawler's team won, but we were left happy as he received a pie in the face from Doink. Bob Backlund defeated Bret Hart in a submission match for the WWF World Heavyweight Championship, one which required one of their cornermen to throw in the towel (Owen Hart was in Backlund's corner, Davey Boy Smith was in Hart's corner). In another curious case of it-sort-of-makes-sense logic, it was actually Helen Hart that threw in the towel to protect Bret who was trapped in the Chicken Wing. You know, this match went over 35 minutes. At that point in time, the longest singles match I had seen was the 30-minute Iron Man match between Ricky Steamboat and Rick Rude at Beach Blast 1992. True, I'd seen very long tag/Survivor Series elimination matches, but this 35-minute match between Hart and Backlund was the longest singles match I'd seen at that point. I quite enjoyed it. The Million Dollar Team (Bam Bam Bigelow, King Kong Bundy, Tatanka and The Heavenly Bodies) took on Guts and Glory (Lex Luger, Adam Bomb, The Smoking Gunns, and Mabel). This was probably, relatively speaking, the weakest match on the card, but enjoyable enough. Bigelow and Bundy survived, Bundy pinning Luger. As the Million Dollar Team attacked him, Luger's teammates returned to save him. Shortly after the PPV, and I believe this is bull unless anyone knows differently, someone told me that Ultimate Warrior was originally set to return at this PPV and save Luger at the end. I've never read about that, but this guy told me it's true. Anyone know any differently? To my knowledge, Warrior didn't even begin negotiating with the WWF until late 1995/early 1996. In the main event, the Undertaker avenged his Royal Rumble 1994 loss to Yokozuna by defeating the big guy in a casket match where Chuck Norris was a ringside enforcer. Norris' presence added a lot of flavour. Was this the greatest bout in WWF history? No! But sometimes it's about sending the audience home happy and avenging a loss. Ten months after losing to Yokozuna in a casket match, Undertaker avenged it here. What more could one ask for? 1994 was the last year of quarterly PPVs. In 1995, starting with In Your House 1, the WWF switched to monthly PPVs. 1994 and before was a time where feuds could develop and breathe. To think it took ten months for Undertaker to return, via way of a detour against Fake Undertaker, to avenge his loss. Today, I guess the loss/avenging would be done within 3 months. How the pace has changed, eh? Overall, I consider this to be one of the best Survivor Series PPVs of the 1990s, and if anyone has any thoughts, I'd appreciate them. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 8:02:50 GMT -5
Today marks 25 years since Survivor Series 1994 aired: The Bad Guys (The 1-2-3 Kid, The British Bulldog, Fatu, Razor Ramon and Sione) took on The Teamsters (Diesel, Jeff Jarrett, Jim Neidhart, Owen Hart and Shawn Michaels). This was a pretty good opener. Lots of heat and hype. And Diesel's face turn after Shawn Michaels had accidentally superkicked Diesel for the third time, the previous two being at SummerSlam 1994 and on an episode of WWF Action Zone. Bizarrely, the referee counted out all five of the Teamsters when Diesel began arguing with his teammates. This did allow Ramon to be the sole survivor, which left me happy, but given either Diesel or Michaels were the legal men in the ring, I am not sure how the rest of the Teamsters, who had not tagged in, could be counted out. Wrestling logic, eh? I have mixed feelings about this match and I felt that Razor Ramon was an odd choice to be the sole survivor and I just feel good about it and bad about it at the same time. The Royal Family (Cheesy, Jerry Lawler, Queasy and Sleazy) took on Clowns R' Us (Doink the Clown, Dink the Clown, Pink the Clown and Wink the Clown). You know, it is what it is. A bit of light humour. I quite enjoyed it. And one has to remember that wrestling is all-ages. I am sure this appealed to very young viewers and families. Lawler's team won, but we were left happy as he received a pie in the face from Doink. This match bored me to death. Did not care for it and it was a cartoon match that trying to entertain the younger group of fans.Bob Backlund defeated Bret Hart in a submission match for the WWF World Heavyweight Championship, one which required one of their cornermen to throw in the towel (Owen Hart was in Backlund's corner, Davey Boy Smith was in Hart's corner). In another curious case of it-sort-of-makes-sense logic, it was actually Helen Hart that threw in the towel to protect Bret who was trapped in the Chicken Wing. You know, this match went over 35 minutes. I'm not a Bob Backlund fan and I did not care for him winning it. Sorry.The Million Dollar Team (Bam Bam Bigelow, King Kong Bundy, Tatanka and The Heavenly Bodies) took on Guts and Glory (Lex Luger, Adam Bomb, The Smoking Gunns, and Mabel). This was probably, relatively speaking, the weakest match on the card, but enjoyable enough. Hated this match.In the main event, the Undertaker avenged his Royal Rumble 1994 loss to Yokozuna by defeating the big guy in a casket match where Chuck Norris was a ringside enforcer. Norris' presence added a lot of flavour. Was this the greatest bout in WWF history? No! But sometimes it's about sending the audience home happy and avenging a loss. Ten months after losing to Yokozuna in a casket match, Undertaker avenged it here. What more could one ask for? I was surprised to see Chuck Norris and the Undertaker won it ... it was predictable match and I knew before the match that the Undertaker avenged it and it was somewhat not entertaining to me.
Overall, I consider this to be one of the best Survivor Series PPVs of the 1990s, and if anyone has any thoughts, I'd appreciate them. I give it a weak B ... I just felt that this Survivor Series was a little bit better and I literally did not care for Bob Backlund and he is by far my least favorite wrestler of all time. I just had a hard time enjoying him
My favorite Backlund moments - Diesel winning WWF Championship from him. |
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