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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 20:20:32 GMT -5
I agree about how the WWF is synonymous with wrestling. It's always gonna have that advantage, certainly on US soil. I've known people who haven't watched wrestling in years, but if the subject comes up they'll mention the WWF (and lapsed fans will say WWF rather than WWE. I've always hated the acronym WWE).
I don't think I've watched Impact Wrestling for at least 5 years now. Not even a clip. I may browse news about it in PWI or whatever. I can't believe I have no interest in it. But it never really hooked me since its inception except perhaps the time when Christian was main eventing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 22:04:24 GMT -5
I think in a year or two ... I'm pretty much out of Professional Wrestling altogether, no ROH, AEW, and anything else. Gave up IMPACT Wrestling and Lucha Underground altogether. I've stopped AEW two weeks ago and sticking with NWA Powerrr and ROH for now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 10:28:01 GMT -5
I agree about how the WWF is synonymous with wrestling. It's always gonna have that advantage, certainly on US soil. I've known people who haven't watched wrestling in years, but if the subject comes up they'll mention the WWF (and lapsed fans will say WWF rather than WWE. I've always hated the acronym WWE). I'm the same way like you ...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 10:40:18 GMT -5
I just scream at the TV (don't take that literally) when I watch DVDs and the like - and a host will say something like, "Hulk Hogan put his WWE Championship on the line against Andre the Giant at WM III..."
No! He didn't!!! There was no WWE Championship then. Come on, don't let pre-2002 history be wiped out due to the court case involving the panda charity. There was a WWF prior to 2002, and it frustrates a pedantic fool like me to hear about a so-called WWE title defence in 1985 or 1990. As there was no WWE then, commentators should refer to it as the WWF.
I hated it when they changed the name to WWE in May 2002. I will never accept it. It'll always be the WWF to me. WWE doesn't even sound right to my ears.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 21, 2019 12:06:26 GMT -5
I just scream at the TV (don't take that literally) when I watch DVDs and the like - and a host will say something like, "Hulk Hogan put his WWE Championship on the line against Andre the Giant at WM III..." No! He didn't!!! There was no WWE Championship then. Come on, don't let pre-2002 history be wiped out due to the court case involving the panda charity. There was a WWF prior to 2002, and it frustrates a pedantic fool like me to hear about a so-called WWE title defence in 1985 or 1990. As there was no WWE then, commentators should refer to it as the WWF. I hated it when they changed the name to WWE in May 2002. I will never accept it. It'll always be the WWF to me. WWE doesn't even sound right to my ears. McMahon knows his Orwell......
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 15:17:00 GMT -5
I'm sure he does. I thought "WWE" would grow on me. It's been 17 years. It hasn't. I mean, what rolls off the tongue more naturally after the word "the"? "The WWE.." or "The WWF." A federation is a legal entity. It makes sense to say "The World Wrestling Federation is coming to town..." It does not sound right to say "The World Wrestling Entertainment is coming to town..." The word "entertainment" just does not work as a noun for me. After seventeen years, it has never sounded right. Sure, I accept that that is what it is. And it certainly makes sense for McMahon's company to refer to itself as the name it is now. But for Pete's sake, I do wish magazines and documentaries would refer to its pre-WWE name accurately! I always used to refer to it as the WWWF if I was discussing 1960s or 1970s facts. I don't like seeing magazines refer to the "WWE bout between Hulk Hogan and King Kong Bundy" or talk about how "WWE battled WCW in the 90s". Nooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is important to me, guys. Think of me as being akin to George Taylor rallying against ape society in Planet of the Apes...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 15:20:23 GMT -5
Incidentally, when the panda charity forced the WWF to change its name, and the WWF logo was blurred out on archive footage, I found it highly amusing to see Samuel L. Jackson with a "WWF" T-Shirt on during one of the extras on a Star Wars DVD. That DVD (might have been Attack of the Clones) probably sold more units that year than any WWF VHS/DVD. That was the universe's way of keeping the logo alive...
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 21, 2019 16:43:54 GMT -5
Well, that logo was the problem, as the World Wildlife Fun beat them to the punch for trademarking the initials "WWF." They could have continued to call themselves the World Wrestling Federation; but, they wouldn't have been able to use the logo. ironically, they started out as the WWWF, the World Wide Wrestling Federation; so they could have gone that route. Thing of it is, the WWF was never actually the legal name for the company. Under Vince Sr it was Capitol Sports and under Jr, it was Titan Sports, until 1998, when they changed to World Wrestling Federation Inc, then the lawsuit forced them to change to World Wrestling Entertainment Inc. Most promotions operated under names that were different than the fans or magazines used.
Central States (Kansas City) was Heart of America Sports Attractions. Mid-Atlantic was Jim Crockett Promotions. Georgia Championship Wrestling was ABC Booking, then Mid-South Sports, then Georgia Championship Wrestling. The AWA was the Minneapolis Boxing and Wrestling Club.
What I find ridiculous is that Vince is obsessed with not using the word "wrestling," yet he kept that as part of the company name. I'm surprised he didn't change it to the WSE, World Sports Entertainment. I mean, how silly is it that the world's most successful pro wrestling promoter is ashamed of being a wrestling promoter? You can call it Dudes Rolling Around in their Underwear; but, it's still pro wrestling to the world.
Vince really needs therapy.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 16:54:48 GMT -5
I actually hate the term "sports entertainment".
I have been to wrestling events. With friends. Not one of us ever said, "Are we ready to go and see some sports entertainment?" I have never said to anyone, "I've bought some sports entertainment tickets." Didn't Vince dictate that the term "superstars" be used instead of "wrestlers"?
You are right about the panda charity vs. wrestling company link, but I will never stop being angry. I should join Vince in his therapy session...
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Post by The Captain on Nov 21, 2019 17:44:47 GMT -5
I actually hate the term "sports entertainment". I have been to wrestling events. With friends. Not one of us ever said, "Are we ready to go and see some sports entertainment?" I have never said to anyone, "I've bought some sports entertainment tickets." Didn't Vince dictate that the term "superstars" be used instead of "wrestlers"? You are right about the panda charity vs. wrestling company link, but I will never stop being angry. I should join Vince in his therapy session... Vince has always had bigger dreams (some might call them delusions of grandeur) about his company. Coming up in the era of the territory system, with small-time TV deals with local stations and guys who were brawlers or had been high-school wrestlers, he envisioned more for himself. It's why he latched onto Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, etc. Vince wanted "personalities" and "entertainers" that would appeal to women and kids, more then just the male-dominated audiences he'd grown up around, because widespread appeal meant bigger TV contracts and merchandising and endorsement opportunities for his performers that wouldn't be possible with just a roster of "wrestlers". Gotta cut this thought short, as the wife just called me down for dinner (Thursdays are one of her nights to cook), but I have some more ideas I might post later.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 21, 2019 19:05:12 GMT -5
I'm serious about Vince needing therapy, as he has real father issues. He did not grow up with Vince Sr. He grew up in more humble circumstances, in North Carolina, with his mother. Sr walked out on the family when he was a baby and he didn't meet his father until he was 12. He tried promoting other things, including rock concerts and Evel Knievel's Snake River Canyon jump and was a failure at it. He worked in the family business because he wasn't successful outside it. Sr made him learn the ropes with his partners, especially Gorilla Monsoon, who owned a piece of the company. When he was ready to retire, he didn't give the business to his son; he made him buy him out and his partners, for a fairly hefty price. The terms were that he would make installment payments; but, if he missed an installment, the promotion reverted back to the partners. The first Wrestlemania had a lot riding on it, as the WWF wasn't exactly a huge money machine, at that point. Wrestling had declined along with the economy and the production was getting more expensive. Also, cable gave exposure to other promotions and the WWF was a slower paced group, with a traditional single camera arena set up. meanwhile, World Class was syndicated and featured state of the art production on their show that made it look slicker and more exciting, even coming from somewhere as rundown as the Sportatorium. World Championship Wrestling gave you an exciting show that was taped live, with interviews and angles and matches all done at the same time, giving it an energy. Since it was a national channel, they got the best talent in the NWA to make appearances.
Vince Jr hoped to use the WWF as a springboard into mainstream entertainment but never really achieved it beyond the wrestling stage. He didn't just want famous wrestlers and media coverage of his events; he wanted the cache of being an entertainment conglomerate. he wanted tv and movies and mainstream acceptance for himself, to prove he was bigger than his father; but, without the "stigma" of pro wrestling. And it never worked. The movies flopped, the concerts failed, the sports leagues bombed. All he has is pro wrestling and he knows how to present it well; he just hates being in that business.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 21, 2019 19:23:33 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer, on Wrestling Observer Radio weighs in on Cornette leaving the NWA....
Takes Dave 20 meandering minutes (Dave's not a "get to the point" kind of guy) to make the point I did, that everyone involved was fine with his comment until after it aired and they got backlash. He says Lagana deserves a lot of the blame, at the end, but stops short of pointing out how they have pushed all the heat onto Cornette and not accepted blame for letting it air and have only said they will scrutinize their shows more, going forward. Typical corporate answer that flies against their supposed outlyer status. As Harry Truman's desk plate said, "The Buck Stops Here." It's your company, you are responsible for everything. If something goes wrong, you are to blame. They are not wrong in separating from Cornette, regardless of whose decision it was (probably a joint "I quit! You're fired!"). They are wrong in not accepting ultimate blame. What apology they did make was hollow and just pointed fingers at Cornette. As Dave said, Cornette used an old school wrestling line, off the cuff, in an era where it wouldn't fly and in a context that wouldn't fly. In the old days, it would have drawn heat from some of the crowd; but that was Cornette's job and wrestling was always about drawing heat and selling tickets than being sensitive to image and the audience's feelings. Had he not already been getting heat from AEW fans and conservatives for his podcasts, this would probably be a smaller story, a quick apology and forgotten in six weeks. Dave is also right that Cornette will probably not apologize for the racial elements to the remark and instead try to defend it as to context or "stupid people not getting it." Stand-up comedians says worse things all of the time; but, they are rarely on a national platform when they do. Politicians say far worse things, in more couched language, as we have seen (and some, like the orange dude, in not so couched language).
Corny needs to learn what I had to, when I was going nuts over politics and the endless wars and the corporate world; just stick with the things that bring you joy and do your best to minimalize the things that bring you stress. Modern wrestling just seems to bring him grief, so stick with the parts of it that bring joy and relax. As he often says, he doesn't need the job so why deal with the aggravation? He also needs to learn that some jokes and wrestling bits don't age well.
On the other hand, there are a lot of people who would be better served not trying to silence every voice that they disagree with and either rebut it or prove it wrong, but respect the right to stay opposing opinions, no matter how stupid they may be. A Captain America comic pointed out that Freedom of Speech requires accepting both noble and ignoble speech.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 20:19:36 GMT -5
Cornette has so much to offer. I've loved his appearances in recent years in Kayfabe Commentaries DVDs. I'd love to see him do more of that, plus writing, blogging, etc. It might be time for him to focus more on that. I love reading his views and listening to him work with Sean Oliver.
I agree with your point about free speech.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 20:26:40 GMT -5
I actually hate the term "sports entertainment". I have been to wrestling events. With friends. Not one of us ever said, "Are we ready to go and see some sports entertainment?" I have never said to anyone, "I've bought some sports entertainment tickets." Didn't Vince dictate that the term "superstars" be used instead of "wrestlers"? You are right about the panda charity vs. wrestling company link, but I will never stop being angry. I should join Vince in his therapy session... Sports Entertainment doesn't apply to Pro Wrestling and its bothers me from day one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 20:28:01 GMT -5
I feel it could well be one of the most pretentious terms ever created.
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