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Post by The Captain on Oct 18, 2019 9:49:07 GMT -5
That's a good point. Bret's win led to the Jerry Lawler feud, which I liked. The Rocket is more of a face name, so for a heel, the King of Harts sounds better. Love his work or hate it, Mabel became King Mabel. I didn't like the Diesel/King Mabel feud, but Sir Mo and King Mabel did have a little bit of entertainment value as far as their characters were concerned. After that, why bother? Why bother? That's easy. It made Vince money, and if there is anything that almost 40 years of WWF/WWE history has taught us is that Vince will run anything into the ground if it makes him a buck. It was the same thing with Tables, Ladders, and Chairs, and Hell in the Cell. Those should have happened once, maybe twice, and then been retired, but fans loved them (particularly because of the danger and risk of injury factor), so Vince kept scheduling them until they were no longer special. There are only so many spots that Edge/Christian, The Hardy Boyz, or The Dudleyz can take over and over again until it becomes routine. One of my all-time favorite matches was Triple H (maybe my all-time favorite wrestler) against Cactus Jack at the 2000 Royal Rumble in a Street Fight at MSG. Those two men poured everything they had into that match, which might be the best RR match ever, both leaving battered and bruised and bloody. The smart thing, however, was that they didn't try to duplicate it later on. It stands on its own as an iconic performance between two men arguably at the height of their popularity, and there was no need for a sequel. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 10:27:13 GMT -5
You're right about the money thing. I think it would have been better for him to rebrand those KOTR PPVs - and drop the tournament stuff altogether.
I was never a fan of Hell in a Cell or TLC becoming an actual PPV as opposed to a gimmick.
I, too, like the fact that Triple H and Cactus Jack had that one Street Fight match. I had seen more violent matches from other promotions prior to that, but at that point in time, and this aired on free TV back then, it was the most violent WWF match I'd seen. Ouch!
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 18, 2019 11:52:48 GMT -5
They kind of did a test for it it with the Wrestling Classic, which was an early PPV with a 16-man tournament that had a fantastic semi-final match between Randy Savage and Dynamite Kid, before Savage met JYD, in the finals.
I like tournaments, if they're booked well and you get exciting matches. The Japanese love them and they are major events. The Super J Cup was a big junior heavyweight tournament that really put the spotlight on the future. The 1994 one was won by Chris Benoit, with him defeating Great sasuke in the finals. It was really a showcase for some of the top smaller guys, in the 90s, with Benoit, Sasuke, Jushin Liger, Eddie Guerrero and Dean Malenko. Really exciting matches and it made stars of several people.
Crockett had the Crockett Cup, which was a tag-team tournament that did well for the first one and okay for the second.
King of the Ring had good years and not so good years; kind of like the promotion in general. It really depended on whether they had a good central idea, like setting up Bret and Lawler or Owen winning and challenging Bret. In the Attitude Era, they kind of used it to anoint the next big guy, after Austin won it and launched the Austin 3:16 catch phrase.
I can barely remember most of that stuff, as I was only watching the WWF sporadically, after leaving college. I was pretty faithful to WCW, as it was more my cup of tea, though I kind of fell out of watching it, by the time I left the military, watching just once in a while, before the whole NWO thing kicked off. Actually, it was an Eddie Guerrero and Dean malenko match that got me back watching, after I was channel surfing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 12:30:20 GMT -5
I watched a 1978 Mid-Atlantic bout between Ricky Steamboat and Ric Flair - with Andre the Giant as the special referee! (Not available on the WWF Network, but on the Blu-ray The U.S. Championship – A Legacy of Greatness.)
It's incomplete footage, so hard to judge. It moves at a slower pace than their later matches. I think their best bout was at WrestleWar 1989.
Andre is quite the presence in this bout, calling it down the middle, especially when either man uses closed fists.
An interesting historical curiosity (without commentary), but it would have been nice to see the complete match.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 18, 2019 23:27:21 GMT -5
I watched a 1978 Mid-Atlantic bout between Ricky Steamboat and Ric Flair - with Andre the Giant as the special referee! (Not available on the WWF Network, but on the Blu-ray The U.S. Championship – A Legacy of Greatness.) It's incomplete footage, so hard to judge. It moves at a slower pace than their later matches. I think their best bout was at WrestleWar 1989. Andre is quite the presence in this bout, calling it down the middle, especially when either man uses closed fists. An interesting historical curiosity (without commentary), but it would have been nice to see the complete match. Sounds like a fragment from a house show. The territories used to film some of the big shows, then show a few minutes on tv; but rarely the whole thing. Usually commentary was recorded in the studio, to further an angle. Sounds like that is raw footage. Jim Cornette rescued a bunch of film and memorabilia when Jim Crockett was moving offices. They were going to dump it in the trash. He sold DVDs of the footage; might still, on his web site (and he ships internationally). From what I've heard, some of it is fragments, but there is some great stuff in there. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 5:18:22 GMT -5
I watched Magnum T.A. defending his US Championship against Nikita Koloff (World Wide Wrestling, August 23, 1986).
What an incredibly heated and solid match. I've only seen about a dozen Magnum T.A. matches. He is a good wrestler, and I know the circumstances of his career ending, but I wonder, would he have become even bigger if not for the accident.
Proper face/heel stuff here. Ivan Koloff is at ringside. Usual believable stuff. Always spoilers in these posts, so let me say that while the referee's back was turned, Koloff hit Magnum T.A. with his chain, knocking him out. And then Koloff became US Champion. Krusher Khruschev, who later wrestled as Demolition's Smash, interfered too.
It was a shocker. I love unpredictable matches. It took many twists and turns. And seeing Koloff get the win astounded me. Dastardly heels!
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 19, 2019 6:39:42 GMT -5
Dusty was building Magnum up to win the world title, before the accident. Whether he would have been a bigger star or not is hard to say; but is a regular source of speculation on the Wrestling Classics board. I kind of doubt he would have had a long run with the title, as the formula was usually the babyface chasing after it. A heel Magnum would have been interesting and probably would have happened, eventually. Dusty usually had his partners turn on him, much like Lawler, in Memphis. Nikita was turned face, in part, because of the accident.
Magnum really had to carry Nikita in those matches. He was improving; but, he was still not the greatest in the ring, apart from his signature spots. Part of the reason they had him with Ivan and Barry Darsow was to learn to work. He got to be pretty decent, by the time he left to care for his wife.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 7:51:02 GMT -5
Speaking of Dusty, on that Blu-ray, he had a great match against Bobby Eaton (Power Pro Wrestling, February 13, 1988).
It was so unpredictable. You have moments where you think, 'This is definitely gonna be a win for Eaton and...what, Dusty kicks out?' Or, 'Dusty gets the win here and...oh, no he doesn't.' Wow. Jim Cornette added a lot to this match, I wanted to throttle him for his interference.
I was quite the fan of Bobby Eaton back when I began watching WCW (around 1991-92). He always delivered for me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 10:22:27 GMT -5
I was quite the fan of Bobby Eaton back when I began watching WCW (around 1991-92). He always delivered for me. Me too, he was a good worker and a surprisingly heck of a wrestler too. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 19, 2019 18:49:59 GMT -5
By all accounts, Bobby was a natural and started when he was 15. Cornette has described that he would hang around the local venue, where he grew up and the let him on the ring crew, where they would let them get into the ring to try stuff out, after they were finished (but, well before the matches. Corny says the wrestlers started noticing how good he already was and Tojo Yamamoto took him under their wing and started training him. He won his first title, at 19, with Leaping Lanny Poffo, for the Mid-American Tag Team titles, for Nick Gulas, in Tennessee. Bobby was already working the upper mid-card, near the semi-main events.
I first saw Bobby on Memphis show, when teamed with Koko B Ware (when he wrestled as Sweet Brown Sugar) and they were the Southern Tag champs. They were a hell of a team. Ironically, in that same show were the original Midnight Express, Dennis Condrey, Randy Rose and Norvell Austin; and Ricky and Robert Gibson, who were challenging for the tag titles. Did not see Ricky Morton and I think (not sure) he was in Texas, at the time. Only time I got to see Memphis, until several years later (my cousins, in Southern IL, got the Evansville, IN version of the tv show, on their antenna).
Bobby's just amazing, in the ring. After WCW was dead, Bobby was made one of the trainers, for the WWE, in Nashville (when they had several developmental territories); but, I heard it didn't go well, as he was such a natural, it was hard for him to explain what he did to young students. He was let go; but, he has his own school, so he must have figured it out.
As a point of trivia, Bobby's father-in-law is wrestler and Memphis mainstay Superstar Bill Dundee.
Bobby also had a rep as one of the nicest guys in the business. Corney had a couple of fun stories about his generosity and his convenience store-in-a-bag...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 19:52:29 GMT -5
By all accounts, Bobby was a natural and started when he was 15. Cornette has described that he would hang around the local venue, where he grew up and the let him on the ring crew, where they would let them get into the ring to try stuff out, after they were finished (but, well before the matches. Corny says the wrestlers started noticing how good he already was and Tojo Yamamoto took him under their wing and started training him. He won his first title, at 19, with Leaping Lanny Poffo, for the Mid-American Tag Team titles, for Nick Gulas, in Tennessee. Bobby was already working the upper mid-card, near the semi-main events. I was surprised to read that Bobby won his first title at the age of 19 ... and started at 15! No wonder he's that good and a true natural in the ring. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 19, 2019 21:08:33 GMT -5
Terry Gordy also started out around that age. Both of them were quickly moved up the card, within a couple of years. Poor Bobby had to carry Nick Gulas' son, George, in a tag-team, called The Jet Set...  George as the son of promoter Nick Gulas and was a beanpole, not a natural athlete and not much of a worker; but,Nick tried to make him a star, which is part of the reason Memphis split away from Gulas' promotion. Bobby, the best worker Gulas had, got the poor task of trying to carry George in tag matches. People talked about Erik Watts getting an undeserved push. in WCW (true); but, he was Lou Thesz compared to George. Hell, Greg Gane looked like Bruno, compared to George. At least Verne never tried to push Greg as the top star.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 6:36:14 GMT -5
Barry Windham vs. Junk Yard Dog (NWA Main Event, January 29, 1989)
Quite a mix of styles here. JYD caused a lot of pain to Windham's hand and did his various moves (the headbutt). Of course, that dastardly JJ Dillon interfered, causing Windham to retain his title. I was devastated. Damn you, Dillon. Damn you!
(Remember when wrestling made you feel emotional?).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 7:04:28 GMT -5
Barry Windham vs. Junk Yard Dog ( NWA Main Event, January 29, 1989) Quite a mix of styles here. JYD caused a lot of pain to Windham's hand and did his various moves (the headbutt). Of course, that dastardly JJ Dillon interfered, causing Windham to retain his title. I was devastated. Damn you, Dillon. Damn you! (Remember when wrestling made you feel emotional?). I do remember this match vividly and it's made me mad at DILLON ... in a very big way! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 8:21:50 GMT -5
In one of many shoot interviews he has done, Jake Roberts was talking about the authority referees should have in the ring - and how wrestling can only work if there is that authority, so that means wrestlers should only cheat behind the referee's back. This comment of his made me smile: "How many times does having heat on a referee draw you any money? NONE! Not unless you have a wrestler vs. referee match - and thank God there's not many of those. Can't say never because we've been to Tennessee and we know what happens there."  Please tell me there weren't really wrestler vs referee matches in Tennessee! |
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