Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202 
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Post by Confessor on Jul 7, 2016 13:41:34 GMT -5
My issue with the new Dr. Strange book was that he's not really magical, or a hero. He's using the life force of others (making the suffer in the process) to do stuff.. usually when that happens we call them a supervillain and try to stop them, no matter how noble they think they are. Do you know if this is the direction they'll be taking with the new Dr. Strange film? Or is it to be more based on the character's Silver Age/Bronze Age power set? |
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Post by String on Jul 7, 2016 18:38:31 GMT -5
You don't think an Iron Man fan would read ALL of titles, so who cares ? Today's micro-attention generation doesn't care but Iron Man is kewl ! Being a long-time Iron Man fan, I find his main title by Bendis to be tolerable. I think Bendis is doing fine channeling an inner Downey Jr for Tony here which seems in line with Marvel's agenda to infuse more movie elements into their books. Although I can do without Tony looking like Luke Perry for his undercover identity in the current storyline. I wasn't impressed by International Iron Man after two issues. Plus, I wasn't all that keen in Bendis picking up what I still consider to be an excellent plot thread introduced by Gillen (which, like every great retcon should aspire to, adds something new without changing What Came Before). I read Avengers because I'm a longtime fan as well and Mark Waid is terrific. But I'm irritated by the recent news of the USAvengers which follows on the well-worn heels of New, Uncanny, Secret, World, Young, etc. Marvel is coming close to running this brand into the ground. I wish they would simplify the group back down but I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon. (In fact, that's the biggest complaint I've come across with Hickman's epic, the group was too big). As for Riri, I haven't read that much of her to form a true opinion yet. She won't be the first person to assume the armor and identity. No, my problem lies with YET another new series with a new #1. We've only reached #11 with the current title and they're already looking to restart it. I know it's the go-to marketing trick today but it's still bull****. I agree with wildfire, the continuity issues running rampant in Marvel's current titles is unsettling but not unexpected these days. Besides DC was doing the same thing recently as well. For example, Superman was powerless and Jim Gordon was Batman yet both characters were at full strength in at least both Justice League titles. And even though I made a joke about it, now we are getting a Great Lakes Avengers title, the young members of the Avengers are quitting and will be seen in a new team title with a classic name, the Champions (what this means for ANAD Avengers is unknown at the moment). On the plus side, Aaron is doing a new Thor title featuring the Odinson along with Oliver Coipel. That's the best news I've seen all week. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 7, 2016 18:41:54 GMT -5
My issue with the new Dr. Strange book was that he's not really magical, or a hero. He's using the life force of others (making the suffer in the process) to do stuff.. usually when that happens we call them a supervillain and try to stop them, no matter how noble they think they are. In fact, Marvel just did that story in Spider-man: Renew your Vows.. that's exactly what Regent does (just with Superheroes instead of magical monks) This is an awesome concept. I always wondered where all the Magic came from. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 7, 2016 21:31:04 GMT -5
My issue with the new Dr. Strange book was that he's not really magical, or a hero. He's using the life force of others (making the suffer in the process) to do stuff.. usually when that happens we call them a supervillain and try to stop them, no matter how noble they think they are. Do you know if this is the direction they'll be taking with the new Dr. Strange film? Or is it to be more based on the character's Silver Age/Bronze Age power set? An excellent question, and one I hadn't considered. I just assume they're going to default to a slightly modernized take of the classic origin, but who knows? Re: Bendis' Iron Man. I agree it's been passable. There are some good parts... I like the Doom storyline, and I like Tony's potential new love interest. Since it's Bendis, continiuty and history (sometimes even from a couple issues ago) are totally out the window, so I expect that. The how undercover to Japan think to sniff out an Inhuman seems far better suit for other titles, and smacks of Marvel being desparate to get the Inhumans in everything they can. I also hate the Mary Jane thing.. it's just blatant fanboy pandering. Tony Stark has no reason to believe Mary Jane, as a night club owner, fashion model, and superhero girl friend should have any idea how to run a Stark business (Which, of course, shouldn't exist according to every other book anyway). I HATE International Iron Man... it's a fine story, but it's not Tony Stark.. My Tony Stark didn't putter around boarding schools in Europe as wastrel attempted to break free of his controlling father.. that's someone else's script. The whole orphan Tony thing in general is kinda dumb, really. Why do that NOW? They are getting way carried away with calling every team 'Avengers'... but that's just as much the market's fault as Marvels...people buy the book more if Avengers is on the cover. |
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Post by Bronze Age Brian on Jul 8, 2016 0:40:04 GMT -5
That cover and article are massively misleading (as usual) based on the story. Riri is a college kid that starts skipping classes to attempt to make her own Iron Man armor. She's actually flying around in her suit in the last issue... she's been around for 6 months. She's definitely not the new Iron Man in any way, unless they kill Tony off in Japan (which doesn't seem likely). So far, She hasn't even been on the same continent as Tony, and their meeting seems at least a couple issues away (several if the book is going to get attached to Civil War II at all) Also, her armor isn't Iron Man-colored, and she was looking for a good name last issue. She actually is very reminiscient of the girl in the Armor Wars comic from Secret Wars (Who I think was related to Rhodey, but I'm not certain). Pepper has been far more 'Female Iron Man' than this in the past (even though she has for some reason been sent to Limbo) I appreciate this insight from a true comic fan. You can always tell when the news-beat, reporters, etc. aren't truly comic readers. I haven't checked out Civil War II yet (or the current Iron Man arc) so thank you wildfire2099 for explaining things better. And I agree, she should have a new name. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 8, 2016 7:13:10 GMT -5
That cover and article are massively misleading (as usual) based on the story. Riri is a college kid that starts skipping classes to attempt to make her own Iron Man armor. She's actually flying around in her suit in the last issue... she's been around for 6 months. She's definitely not the new Iron Man in any way, unless they kill Tony off in Japan (which doesn't seem likely). So far, She hasn't even been on the same continent as Tony, and their meeting seems at least a couple issues away (several if the book is going to get attached to Civil War II at all) Also, her armor isn't Iron Man-colored, and she was looking for a good name last issue. She actually is very reminiscient of the girl in the Armor Wars comic from Secret Wars (Who I think was related to Rhodey, but I'm not certain). Pepper has been far more 'Female Iron Man' than this in the past (even though she has for some reason been sent to Limbo) I appreciate this insight from a true comic fan. You can always tell when the news-beat, reporters, etc. aren't truly comic readers. I haven't checked out Civil War II yet (or the current Iron Man arc) so thank you wildfire2099 for explaining things better. And I agree, she should have a new name. "War Washing Machine" should break the internet for a few days. |
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Post by The Captain on Jul 8, 2016 8:13:58 GMT -5
My issue with the new Dr. Strange book was that he's not really magical, or a hero. He's using the life force of others (making the suffer in the process) to do stuff.. usually when that happens we call them a supervillain and try to stop them, no matter how noble they think they are. In fact, Marvel just did that story in Spider-man: Renew your Vows.. that's exactly what Regent does (just with Superheroes instead of magical monks) This is an awesome concept. I always wondered where all the Magic came from. It's not that it explains where the magic comes from, but rather what allows the magic to happen. There is a price to be paid for casting spells and calling on mystical forces, and while some sorcerers pay that cost themselves, Stephen has avoided it through the behind-the-scenes actions of Wong, who has collected individuals who take the punishment that Stephen should be receiving. It's a twist on The Portrait of Dorian Grey , although without Stephen being aware of it. I actually like this idea over the way that magic used to be handled in the MU. They're finally putting some rules in place as to how the "system" works and how the magic-users derive their ability to cast spells, rather than just invoking the name of some extra-dimensional entity and being able to make anything happen that they want. It eliminates the overuse of deus ex machina through magic means, and it reins in their power, which is important if they want to keep magic as a viable, and less godlike, ability in the MU. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 8, 2016 9:32:14 GMT -5
This is an awesome concept. I always wondered where all the Magic came from. It's not that it explains where the magic comes from, but rather what allows the magic to happen. There is a price to be paid for casting spells and calling on mystical forces, and while some sorcerers pay that cost themselves, Stephen has avoided it through the behind-the-scenes actions of Wong, who has collected individuals who take the punishment that Stephen should be receiving. It's a twist on The Portrait of Dorian Grey , although without Stephen being aware of it. Is that the new status quo or has it been made retroactively true for the whole length of Dr. Strange's career? |
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Post by Randle-El on Jul 8, 2016 10:49:55 GMT -5
From what I've read of the MCU Dr. Strange movie, I think they are trying to go the route of making magic be something that is grounded in science or natural phenomena -- albeit, in very fantastical terms. I think it's not unlike that line from the first Thor movie, when Thor says something to the effect of "What you call magic and science are one and the same". I think part of that grounding is attributing magic to certain cosmic forces or phenomena with specific rules or constraints. I've read in a few places that the Zero Matter portrayed in the last season of Agent Carter is supposed to tie in to the Dr. Strange film as a possible explanation for magic. I've also read that Ant-Man's foray into the Microverse/Quantum Realm might also come into play as an explanation. Given Marvel's current penchant for synergy between publishing and film lines, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the current take on Dr. Strange's magic is in some way related to the MCU side trying to place limits and rules on magic so that it's more believable and less of a deus ex machina.
I'm currently enjoying Dr. Strange, but I've also never really been interested in the character previously so I have nothing to compare it to. I like the creative team so that's the main reason why I'm reading.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 8, 2016 12:52:53 GMT -5
It's not that it explains where the magic comes from, but rather what allows the magic to happen. There is a price to be paid for casting spells and calling on mystical forces, and while some sorcerers pay that cost themselves, Stephen has avoided it through the behind-the-scenes actions of Wong, who has collected individuals who take the punishment that Stephen should be receiving. It's a twist on The Portrait of Dorian Grey , although without Stephen being aware of it. Is that the new status quo or has it been made retroactive true for the whole length of Dr. Strange's career? Of course.. that's how Modern Marvel rolls! Seriously, though.. I agree having some sort of rules is good (even essential) for fantasy novels, but it's just a minor part of the MU I'm not sure it's necessary... especially since the next guy will probably abandon it. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 8, 2016 13:03:55 GMT -5
Is that the new status quo or has it been made retroactive true for the whole length of Dr. Strange's career? Of course.. that's how Modern Marvel rolls! Oy!!! So do my eyes, now!!!  I don't mind the concept as one way to do magical stuff... let's call it "pain magic"... but it creates all sorts of other problems. For example, even if in the Marvel Universe we haven't seen the Christian God per se, we still had lots of stories with angels and demons. Are we to assume that the magic used by the angels must rely on someone else suffering? That would be a very ungodly thing to do. (Although it would make a killer of a story for some iconoclastic writer like Garth Ennis : the reason there is suffering in the world? It's because God needs pain to power His magic!!!) How do we define pain, for the purpose of making magic? Is it physical pain, which is just a matter of nerve impulses going from one spot to another? That's a very mundane explanation for something as esoteric as magic. Is it psychological pain? That can be solved with just the right amount of neurotransmitters or opiates... It just doesn't make much sense! Now "Pain Magic" I can understand if there are entities out there who feed on our anguish (the Dweller in darkness, D'Spayre, and so forth) and that they're ready to give us a little power if we provide them with succulent bits of mortal unhappiness. But a general rule of the universe? I find it hard to believe. (Well, good, would Marvel say... Magic is supposed to be unbelievable!) |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 8, 2016 13:21:28 GMT -5
Just to pull the thread back around to Civil War 2. I haven't read the actual comics, but based on reading some discussion/plot points:
- Seems like Tony is the 'good' guy (with the liberal views) and Carol the 'bad' guy... I'm sure they did it to make it so Tony Stark isn't totally turned into a villain, but it feels pretty wrong to me based on Tony's modern Marvel character.
- With the 'new kids' getting their own book (super excited about Champions, btw.. especially since with the current ANAD Avengers story I have small hope they're going to find Rich Rider instead of Sam's dad), and more 'All new all different' characters, could Marvel be heading towards a 'generation gap' battle, where the 'old' heroes fight the new? That would make alot of sense based on where they're going.
- with The CA: Sam Wilson book, it seems Marvel is getting into so actual real-life issues.. if that's the case, good for them.. it's been a long time since comics have gotten out of their own way and had something to say.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
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Post by Confessor on Jul 8, 2016 15:18:20 GMT -5
From what I've read of the MCU Dr. Strange movie, I think they are trying to go the route of making magic be something that is grounded in science or natural phenomena -- albeit, in very fantastical terms. I think it's not unlike that line from the first Thor movie, when Thor says something to the effect of "What you call magic and science are one and the same". I think part of that grounding is attributing magic to certain cosmic forces or phenomena with specific rules or constraints. I've read in a few places that the Zero Matter portrayed in the last season of Agent Carter is supposed to tie in to the Dr. Strange film as a possible explanation for magic. I've also read that Ant-Man's foray into the Microverse/Quantum Realm might also come into play as an explanation. Given Marvel's current penchant for synergy between publishing and film lines, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the current take on Dr. Strange's magic is in some way related to the MCU side trying to place limits and rules on magic so that it's more believable and less of a deus ex machina. But...but, I thought for Marvel, it was magic: they don't have to explain it.   |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 8, 2016 16:50:33 GMT -5
From what I've read of the MCU Dr. Strange movie, I think they are trying to go the route of making magic be something that is grounded in science or natural phenomena -- albeit, in very fantastical terms. I think it's not unlike that line from the first Thor movie, when Thor says something to the effect of "What you call magic and science are one and the same". I think part of that grounding is attributing magic to certain cosmic forces or phenomena with specific rules or constraints. I've read in a few places that the Zero Matter portrayed in the last season of Agent Carter is supposed to tie in to the Dr. Strange film as a possible explanation for magic. I've also read that Ant-Man's foray into the Microverse/Quantum Realm might also come into play as an explanation. Given Marvel's current penchant for synergy between publishing and film lines, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the current take on Dr. Strange's magic is in some way related to the MCU side trying to place limits and rules on magic so that it's more believable and less of a deus ex machina. But...but, I thought for Marvel, it was magic: they don't have to explain it. Ha. But that's why I never really enjoyed the magical characters in Comics. |
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Post by The Captain on Jul 8, 2016 19:24:16 GMT -5
Just to pull the thread back around to Civil War 2. I haven't read the actual comics, but based on reading some discussion/plot points: - Seems like Tony is the 'good' guy (with the liberal views) and Carol the 'bad' guy... I'm sure they did it to make it so Tony Stark isn't totally turned into a villain, but it feels pretty wrong to me based on Tony's modern Marvel character. - With the 'new kids' getting their own book (super excited about Champions, btw.. especially since with the current ANAD Avengers story I have small hope they're going to find Rich Rider instead of Sam's dad), and more 'All new all different' characters, could Marvel be heading towards a 'generation gap' battle, where the 'old' heroes fight the new? That would make alot of sense based on where they're going. - with The CA: Sam Wilson book, it seems Marvel is getting into so actual real-life issues.. if that's the case, good for them.. it's been a long time since comics have gotten out of their own way and had something to say. IRT the CA: SW book, they are tackling some real-life situations, but unfortunately, Nick Spencer has been writing the series and he addresses the subject matter with all the subtlety of a kick to the groin. |
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