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Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 15, 2016 17:24:35 GMT -5
Man Without Fear was originally a movie script, wasn't it?
I am willing to google this, but I assume one of you guys knows off the top of your head.
Really wish I had more than one vote on this poll - I'd like to prop 300 and Strikes Again up a little bit, and I feel bad not voting for Born Again because I really do think it's the best six consecutive issues of any not-self-contained Marvel comic.
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 15, 2016 17:39:44 GMT -5
The way polls are set up here, multiple choices aren't fair, unless their numerical in nature (like the rating polls).
For example, with two choices, if 9 out of 10 voters think A to be the best, and B second best, but the 10th voter doesn't include A in the top two, B could win even if no one chooses it as number one.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2016 17:58:33 GMT -5
Man Without Fear was originally a movie script, wasn't it? I am willing to google this, but I assume one of you guys knows off the top of your head. Really wish I had more than one vote on this poll - I'd like to prop 300 and Strikes Again up a little bit, and I feel bad not voting for Born Again because I really do think it's the best six consecutive issues of any not-self-contained Marvel comic. I thought Man Without Fear was supposed to be a graphic novel that was changed to a limited series. This resulted in Miller & Romita having to change some pages...
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Post by String on Mar 15, 2016 19:04:21 GMT -5
Man Without Fear was originally a movie script, wasn't it? I am willing to google this, but I assume one of you guys knows off the top of your head. Really wish I had more than one vote on this poll - I'd like to prop 300 and Strikes Again up a little bit, and I feel bad not voting for Born Again because I really do think it's the best six consecutive issues of any not-self-contained Marvel comic. I thought Man Without Fear was supposed to be a graphic novel that was changed to a limited series. This resulted in Miller & Romita having to change some pages... Not so much change pages as add and expand them. According to Ralph Macchio, then-DD artist JRJr wanted to work with Miller on a one-shot DD project. Miller was interested so they decided on doing an all-inclusive definitive origin for DD. Miller's initial plot and script was for a graphic novel but Macchio was so impressed by it's initial quality, he asked for more. Thus, they added new scenes and expanded on existing sequences and the graphic novel was quickly upgraded to a mini-series.
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Post by dupersuper on Mar 15, 2016 19:49:41 GMT -5
You're just cheating yourself twice over... Pushing more chips into the pot... I have no interest in his acclaimed Netflix series either. Your posts are making me sad...
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Post by Dizzy D on Mar 16, 2016 13:23:53 GMT -5
I thought Man Without Fear was supposed to be a graphic novel that was changed to a limited series. This resulted in Miller & Romita having to change some pages... Not so much change pages as add and expand them. According to Ralph Macchio, then-DD artist JRJr wanted to work with Miller on a one-shot DD project. Miller was interested so they decided on doing an all-inclusive definitive origin for DD. Miller's initial plot and script was for a graphic novel but Macchio was so impressed by it's initial quality, he asked for more. Thus, they added new scenes and expanded on existing sequences and the graphic novel was quickly upgraded to a mini-series. The original mini had a bit in the end where John Romita is shouting at Ralph Macchio over various changes to the series, Frank Miller going to Hollywood to be involved with Robocop or so and so on. I loved reading that; Miller wrote a rough outline send to JRJR that was 42 pages IIRC. Reaction from Ralph: "Oh, 42 pages, we can do that as a 48 special if we add a bit." JRJR: "No, the OUTLINE is 48 pages." RM: "Oh dear." (Paraphrased because I don't have that comic here).
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 17, 2016 9:35:10 GMT -5
For me, Born Again and more in general, his entire DD catalog. I recently re-read Born Again in an online DD club and taking new notices and a fresh look at the chemistry and creativity between Miller and Mazz, it's really incredible that this was Miller's second run with the character. It's sad though that this story, while a creative watermark for both creator and character, would also set the 'tone' for what many think a DD story should be about; tragedy and madness. It's easy to forget that Miller's original DD run held quite a few light-hearted moments. That's unfortunately typical of the way these long-ending comic stories are told: once in a while, someone comes up with a fresh idea, a new concept that grabs our attention, and for the next twenty years writers try to reuse the same formula or to explicitly distance themselves from it. For the X-Men, it was things like "X-Men come back in time to try and avert a dystopian future". For Daredevil it was "Matt loses everything and has to rebuild himself from the ground up". Regarding the post-Elektra madness, I think Matt was suffering from a severe breakdown that led him to perform highly unethical acts. People often mention his cruel torture of a paralyzed Bullseye, but his emotional mistreatment of Heather was far crueler and unethical in my eyes. It's too bad that rather than embracing Matt's ambiguous behaviour after the first Miller run, new writer Dennis O'Neil just had him snap out of it, as it were, realize that he had been a bad boy and go back to being regular ol' hornhead. It is to her credit that after the second Miller run, Ann Nocenti didn't just reset the game but went on with the situation as it was, even expanding on the moral ambiguity that was always present in Matt (a core element of his personality, since he's a lawyer doubling as a vigilante). Matt loved Karen but wanted Mary, and it was a close call before he finally decided to do the right thing... right before external circumstances prevented him from acting on his better impulses, leading to much suffering among his friends. Have I mentioned how much I love Nocenti's DD? I have, haven't I? Sorry to keep droning on about it!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 17, 2016 17:22:22 GMT -5
" In fact, Man Without Fear was initially imagined as a movie script and it is through the meddling of later writers on the main book that elements from Man Without Fear has entered into Daredevil continuity..." www.theothermurdockpapers.com/2012/05/review-of-daredevil-season-one/I'm finding quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that Man Without Fear was originally a movie pitch, but no primary sources.
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Post by byronlomax on Apr 1, 2016 16:12:02 GMT -5
Voted Year One, but I badly need to finish his run on Daredevil and pick up Ronin, too. DKR is still classic, but Y1 is a flat-out better story IMO. Really enjoyed Sin City years ago, but he kinda dropped off towards the end of the run.
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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 25, 2022 5:04:41 GMT -5
I forgot to lock this poll, so before doing that, I thought I'd give new members (most people, after all these years) a chance to vote. Old voters also have the option to change theirs.
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 25, 2022 6:21:41 GMT -5
I can't believe I missed this poll first time around!
I'm not a big fan of Frank Miller, so I haven't read most of the choices listed. Of hose I have, I picked Elektra Assassin, partly because it's the only item I own in the original floppies, mosdtly because I really dig Sienkiewicz's art.
Yes, I picked the one Miller didn't draw.
Cei-U! I summon the contrarian!
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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 25, 2022 6:39:00 GMT -5
Yes, I picked the one Miller didn't draw. Most of the choices aren't drawn by him!
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Post by EdoBosnar on Oct 25, 2022 7:11:31 GMT -5
His first run on Daredevil. He never really topped that in my opinion.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Oct 25, 2022 8:14:55 GMT -5
Yes, I'm the one who voted for All Star Batman & Robin. I'll explain when I have more time (probably tomorrow). Don't judge me. Holy thread necromancy, I guess I never got around to explaining this! It's now been years since I last read All-Star Batman & Robin, so instead of trying to work from very old memories, I'll cut and paste a review I did of the series in 2008: All-Star Batman & Robin begins with young Dick Grayson, happily flying through the air, bathed in rich, nourishing golds and pure, untainted whites. It is contrasted, on the next page, with a tramped up Vicky Vale, adorned in nothing but her undergarments, lit with subtle carnal reds, bathed in cool, almost depressing blues. The narrative box at the top of the page announces "Gotham City." Throughout the rest of this issue, we'll come to know Gotham as an infectious disease of the soul, constantly bathing its inhabitants in depressing blues and lustful/violent reds. It is a place where there is no innocence and little room for morality. Your only choices are to become a jaded victim, a remorseless monster who preys upon jaded victims or (in the case of The Batman) a jaded monster who preys upon remorseless monsters who prey upon jaded victims. With only a short stay in this virus of a city, Dick's world of love and purity becomes quickly tainted. He is forced to witness the death of his parents (caused by Gotham criminals), at which point those brilliant golds and pure whites seem to leave him forever. I first became aware of the growing rumbles of dissatisfaction with this title when the fourth installment came out. Everyone was livid that Dick still hadn't become Robin yet. They saw everything leading up to that moment as drawn out and unnecessary, expecting to quickly arrive at the formation of The Batman & Robin team. Of course, anyone could have (and has) written that story. Instead, Frank Miller endeavors to do something far bolder, here. He's less concerned with how Bruce and Dick became Batman and Robin, and far more concerned with how Batman and Robin work through their history of violence and victimhood in order to become heroes. It's unfortunate that this volume only contains the first half of this story, as much of this growth and realization first begins in the ninth installment (where those whites and golds curiously surface again). But still, bathed in the all prevailing blues and reds of the red light district that is Miller's Gotham City, we can begin to understand the basic idea. It seems to me that Miller began by asking himself "What kind of a city creates a man driven and passionate enough to become Batman?" and then answers with another question: "What kind of a Batman would that city force him to become?" Both of those questions are eloquently answered in these early issues. In a sense, Gotham is the strongest, most fleshed out character in this volume, with Batman only serving as its pawn, and Robin in turn serving as Batman's pawn. The true wonder of the next volume will be watching these characters step back from their anger and violence, re-examine their purpose, and return as heroes. For me, that makes this the most honest and compelling portrait of Batman's early years. A man driven enough by crime and violence to take it into his own hands doesn't craft a clear cut superhero morality over-night. First, he must burn off some of the adrenaline and hatred that drove him to action in the first place. This is a highly misunderstood volume, praised for Jim Lee's art (some of his finest yet) but, at best, playfully mocked for Miller's over the top depiction of "The Goddamn Batman". I would implore all readers of this volume to look beyond the obvious. Watch the art, listen to what Miller is trying to tell you about Gotham and the effect it has on people. Allow yourself to move beyond the shock that this is not the Batman you know. He will get there.
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Post by commond on Oct 25, 2022 8:28:20 GMT -5
If I were to revisit Miller again, it would be the original Daredevil run, though I am tempted to read Ronin again now that I'm more familiar with the work that influenced it. I also like the other work Miller did around this time -- the Amazing Spider-Man annuals and the Wolverine mini-series. It would have been interesting if DC had greenlit the proposal that he made with Gerber to reboot Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman.
I haven't read Give Me Liberty or Marsha Washington Goes to War since they were released. I wonder how they hold up. I imagine I would be receptive to anything up until 300. That was when Miller lost me.
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