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Post by spoon on Dec 12, 2021 18:55:24 GMT -5
I am a big fan (mostly for nostalgic reasons rather than the actual quality of it) of Shooter's first run on Avengers, but I do not like his second run. I feel his decision to focus on the founders (plus Tigra) nd remove the characters that had become the core heart and soul of the team in issue 211 was a huge misstep that made the book feel bland and uninteresting since every character was having their main story told elsewhere and nothing real interesting could be done to them except smash 'em up fights. And those he could do things with (Hank and Jan) he made out of left field character decisions that were tantamount to character assassination. There was no depth of character and just shock value in the choices he made, which for me makes the worst kind of serialized super-hero storytelling (and was much more reminiscent of 90s Marvel storytelling than classic Bronze Age Marvel). -M Yes, I'm a big fan of Avengers rosters that included mainstays outside the Founders (especially the Big 3), like Vision, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Wonder Man, etc.
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Post by berkley on Dec 12, 2021 20:35:10 GMT -5
I really liked Shooter's first run at the time but noticed even then that my enjoyment dropped off pretty drastically when Perez wasn't there. That could happen with the best writers to some extent,but there was a difference between, say Doug Moench writing MoKF with artists lss to my liking than Gulacy and Shooter writing the Avengers with artists less tomy liking than Perez.
And there were other warning signs for me in that first run: for example the Nefaria story, in spite of some outstanding artwork from Byrne, really rubbed me the wrong way as a story, since the whole point seemed to be that Superman would wipe the floor with the Avengers if they ever met. Agree or disagree with that idea, it isn't much of a basis for a story.
I also thought Jocasta was a silly idea, though at the time I think this was just a vaguely negative feeling. A few years later I would have said it was a matter of taking the Oedipus-complex aspect of the Henry Pym/Ultron relationship too literally and extending it in a simple-minded, by-the-numbers way. Not a great visual design either, it must be said, though I assume that was Perez.
However, I don't want to downplay my overall enjoyment of that first run: I looked forward to every issue and though I haven't re-read it in mnay years, I'd still rate it as one of the most enjoyable superhero runs of all time, in some respects. I thnk Shooter did a good job when he stuck to the standard superhero formula as it was then, although he was more in tune with DC-superheroes thn with Marvel. He got himself into trouble when he tried to be creative and think outside the box a little: that just was not his strong point.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 12, 2021 22:44:30 GMT -5
I’m still reading Kirby’s Fourth World! I finished the first volume of the Omnibus but the library doesn’t have Volumes Two or Three! (They do have Volume Four when I get there.) So I bought some online issues at ComiXology, some Jimmy Olsen, some New Gods, some Mister Miracle.
What’s cool about getting single issues from Comixology is the reprints are included!
I read the Jimmy Olsen issues with Goody Rickles. (Kirby says: Don’t Ask! Just Buy It!”)
And I read New God #4. (New Gods is fast becoming my favorite.)
And then ... some great reprints of 1940s Kirby material! Earlier today, I read the first appearance of the Newsboy Legion! And in the back of the New Gods ... Kirby’s Manhunter!
So great!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 6:37:52 GMT -5
Just started my umpteenth read of a series I often return to, DC Comics Presents. While I was reading a lot of books back in 1978 when the series started, this was probably my favorite Superman title (unless you include Superboy/Legion) and one of my favorites overall from that time.
I have a number of original issues and color reprints, but for some reason I tend to just grab my old B&W Showcase editions, the pair of them cover the first 50 issues plus the first annual. Just read the first 6 issues, lots of good stuff. The Flash 2-parter that kicks off the series is so classic and epic, it's shortly before they killed off Iris and things got weird so I like seeing "classic Flash" in action. You've got great Garcia-Lopez art, Reverse-Flash appears, even a short appearance by the Legion, all stuff I love.
Garcia-Lopez art for the next couple of issues as well, a fun Adam Strange issue and then #4 is another huge favorite, the Metal Men (I'll buy pretty much any classic appearance of them). #5 is a good Aquaman team-up, and also love that Lori Lemaris is in it. Finally #6, yet another fun issue this time with Green Lantern, and again I applaud the character choices with Star Sapphire being the baddy in this issue. Looking forward to continuing my run!
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Post by james on Dec 13, 2021 10:47:09 GMT -5
I am embarrassed to say I never read DC before CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS or much after, except for Perez and Byrne’s work on DC. So today I’ve decided to start picking up Silver Age JLA vol 1-2 AND Green Lantern vol 1 My goal over the next year to read as much classic DC as I can. Wish me luck.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 10:49:13 GMT -5
I am embarrassed to say I never read DC before CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS or much after, except for Perez and Byrne’s work on DC. So today I’ve decided to start picking up Silver Age JLA vol 1-2 AND Green Lantern vol 1 My goal over the next year to read as much classic DC as I can. Wish me luck. It's best in small doses. I love a lot of Silver Age DC, but it's not material suited for binge reading. Read one or two stories, move on to something else, come back the next day read one or two more, wash, rinse, repeat. Don't try to sit and read an entire volume in one sitting, you'll burn out quickly. -M
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Post by james on Dec 13, 2021 10:50:45 GMT -5
I am embarrassed to say I never read DC before CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS or much after, except for Perez and Byrne’s work on DC. So today I’ve decided to start picking up Silver Age JLA vol 1-2 AND Green Lantern vol 1 My goal over the next year to read as much classic DC as I can. Wish me luck. It's best in small doses. I love a lot of Silver Age DC, but it's not material suited for binge reading. Read one or two stories, move on to something else, come back the next day read one or two more, wash, rinse, repeat. Don't try to sit and read an entire volume in one sitting, you'll burn out quickly. -M That is my plan. I think that’s why I’ve never gotten far when I’ve tried in the past
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 13, 2021 12:16:51 GMT -5
I am embarrassed to say I never read DC before CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS or much after, except for Perez and Byrne’s work on DC. So today I’ve decided to start picking up Silver Age JLA vol 1-2 AND Green Lantern vol 1 My goal over the next year to read as much classic DC as I can. Wish me luck. You’ll be sooorrrryyyyy
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Post by kirby101 on Dec 13, 2021 12:19:16 GMT -5
Crisis is a classic for what it meant for the DC Universe, not because of the story itself, even with the exceptional Perez art.
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Post by The Captain on Dec 13, 2021 12:22:18 GMT -5
I am embarrassed to say I never read DC before CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS or much after, except for Perez and Byrne’s work on DC. So today I’ve decided to start picking up Silver Age JLA vol 1-2 AND Green Lantern vol 1 My goal over the next year to read as much classic DC as I can. Wish me luck. If you do this, avoid Wonder Woman written by Robert Kanigher at all costs. It is some of, if not the absolute, worst comic book work I’ve ever read. The disdain Kanigher had for the character and her fans is blatant, and the stories barely make sense (especially the ones with Wonder Tot, who is god-awful).
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Post by james on Dec 13, 2021 12:28:45 GMT -5
I am embarrassed to say I never read DC before CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS or much after, except for Perez and Byrne’s work on DC. So today I’ve decided to start picking up Silver Age JLA vol 1-2 AND Green Lantern vol 1 My goal over the next year to read as much classic DC as I can. Wish me luck. It's best in small doses. I love a lot of Silver Age DC, but it's not material suited for binge reading. Read one or two stories, move on to something else, come back the next day read one or two more, wash, rinse, repeat. Don't try to sit and read an entire volume in one sitting, you'll burn out quickly. -M Why do you think that is? I have been able to read 2,3,4 issues at a time of X-men and Avengers
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Post by profh0011 on Dec 13, 2021 14:05:19 GMT -5
If you do this, avoid Wonder Woman written by Robert Kanigher at all costs. It is some of, if not the absolute, worst comic book work I’ve ever read. The disdain Kanigher had for the character and her fans is blatant, and the stories barely make sense (especially the ones with Wonder Tot, who is god-awful). It was a pleasant SHOCK when DC put out the first Golden Age WONDER WOMAN Archives. I'd enjoyed some stories with her, but this was something different.
My feeling ever since has been... NOBODY-- and I mean absolutely NOBODY-- has done WONDER WOMAN "right" in the comics since William Marston & Harry Peter.
The 1st season of the Lynda Carter WW show was pretty damn cool, though.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 13, 2021 14:08:11 GMT -5
I am embarrassed to say I never read DC before CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS or much after, except for Perez and Byrne’s work on DC. So today I’ve decided to start picking up Silver Age JLA vol 1-2 AND Green Lantern vol 1 My goal over the next year to read as much classic DC as I can. Wish me luck. It's best in small doses. I love a lot of Silver Age DC, but it's not material suited for binge reading. Read one or two stories, move on to something else, come back the next day read one or two more, wash, rinse, repeat. Don't try to sit and read an entire volume in one sitting, you'll burn out quickly. -M I was just about to say this! I’ve read the early issues of JLA but there aren’t very many I re-read regularly. I love the first Amazo. And the first appearance of Amos Fortune. As for GL, I like the stories with major villains, like Sinestro, Sonar, Hector Hammond, The Shark.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 13, 2021 14:11:15 GMT -5
Kanigher’s WW stories are frequently very bad and repetitive. But sometimes it’s just SO nutty that I like them. Anything with Wonder Tot is OK by me. I love Mouse Man! And then there’s Egg Fu! You can hardly believe what you’re seeing!
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 13, 2021 14:12:18 GMT -5
That said, yeah, I can barely stomach Mer-Boy and Bird-Boy. Those stories are the pits.
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