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Post by tonebone on Jun 7, 2021 15:41:45 GMT -5
I just finished reading the second volume of Justice League International, which contains JLI 18-27, and then Justice League Europe 1-6, presented in that order. I found the stories fun and sometimes funny, but the order they were presented in kept me wondering when the JLE stories took place, presumably between issues of JLI. But the continuity was definitely off. The best story was when the JLE are sent to night school to learn French, and in the same class are a super-villain team who are there for the same purpose. Eventually, under the watchful eye of a very strict teacher, they slowly begin to realize they are all in the same class. Hilarity ensues. I haven't gotten to the really BWAHAHA issues with a fat Beetle and overly goofy Booster, but as long as DC is still reprinting them, I'll keep plodding along. Comics were really fun, then.
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Post by Graphic Autist on Jun 7, 2021 16:58:17 GMT -5
I LOVED JLI when it was originally being released (up through issue 50 anyway.) Does it read as well now? Not really, but it definitely reminded me how fun these were to read the first time around. Comics were starting to get overly dark from what I was used to before 1987, and these comics were a breath of fresh air for me.
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Post by badwolf on Jun 7, 2021 17:05:58 GMT -5
I haven't read those issues since they came out, but I did get the first omnibus recently. They were really fun books.
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Post by profh0011 on Jun 7, 2021 17:18:27 GMT -5
Andy Helfer was the first editor who figured out what to do with Keith Giffen-- have him do STORY & LAYOUTS, and get "real" illustrators to do the pencils & inks. When Karen Berger jumped-ship from LEGION, tragically, her replacements DIDN'T follow suit. As soon as Giffen went back to full pencils... the non-stop horror show began. Plus, 3 different editors over the course of ONE long storyline, was never gonna end well.
I keep wondering, in the back of my mind, if I'm ever gonna just decide to perform an "exorcism"... and take the entire "Five Years Later" run out to my back yard... and SET IT ALL ON FIRE.
It's THAT F****** bad. And always was.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 7, 2021 21:45:53 GMT -5
Perhaps that's just my version... I looked at a few things after you posted and you're right, there's not really anything that specific in the original.
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Post by earl on Jun 8, 2021 1:23:12 GMT -5
Read quite a few comics (for me) in the past couple weeks. Finished re-read of Tim Truman's run on Dark Horse's Conan, which is really good. I'm also reading early/mid 70s Daredevil, Hulk and the Defenders. I just read up to #132 of Daredevil, which is the second of the Bullseye story. I just finished the Defenders/Avengers/Black Knight saga, which is a classic and also reading Englehart's Hulk.
Old school Hulk is just bonkers. The pages when Betty has her breakdown after finding out from T-bolt that Talbot is dead (presumably) is pretty classic. Hulk bringing Betty flowers and then beating up Modok in a robot for her outside her window was fun on a couple of different levels.
Wolfman's Daredevil is a bit all over the place... "So you got a key to my apartment, my radar sense says you are cute, sure you can keep the key." Oh Matt, you sly devil.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 8, 2021 8:08:42 GMT -5
Andy Helfer was the first editor who figured out what to do with Keith Giffen-- have him do STORY & LAYOUTS, and get "real" illustrators to do the pencils & inks. When Karen Berger jumped-ship from LEGION, tragically, her replacements DIDN'T follow suit. As soon as Giffen went back to full pencils... the non-stop horror show began. Plus, 3 different editors over the course of ONE long storyline, was never gonna end well.
I keep wondering, in the back of my mind, if I'm ever gonna just decide to perform an "exorcism"... and take the entire "Five Years Later" run out to my back yard... and SET IT ALL ON FIRE.
It's THAT F****** bad. And always was.
I just read a bunch of those from my to read pile that's been sitting for a while.. they are, indeed, pretty terrible. I can see why they did the 'Threeboot' (which I like alot.. probably my favorite Legion)... there was really no choice.
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Post by profh0011 on Jun 8, 2021 8:19:56 GMT -5
So well I remember Wolfman's DAREDEVIL run. He took over HALF an issue into what was supposed to be Len Wein's run, when Len suddenly changed his mind and decided he didn't wanna do the book after all (and after he went to all the trouble to have Tony Isabella BOOTED off the book-- tsk).
Brown-Janson was such a HORRIBLE, ugly combination. And those early Wolfman issues, it felt like Marv didn't realize he wasn't doing another horror book, he was doing a SUPERHERO book. The whole think both looked and felt like an ongoing nightmare.
The mood changed considerably when Jim Mooney replaced Janson as inker, just in time for the big Jester storyline. That was probably the high point of Marv's run.
Then things got CHAOTIC. There were multiple guest-artists, a pointless crossover with another title, and Marv following Chris Claremont's example (or was it the other way round, I could never be sure) of introducing MULTIPLE sub-plots at the same time, and NEVER following up on any of them. Debbie Harris got kidnapped off-camera, and this seemingly-important plot point was ignored for months and months on end.
When Bob Brown returned (and brought Bullseye back with him) it looked like things might begin to get back on track. (Which makes me wonder, in typical 70s Marvel fashion, just how much the "artist" was contributing to the direction of the stories).
But then Gerry Conway barged in KICKED everybody off the title, and then didn't even bother sticking around more than a couple issues. WAY TO GO (he said, sarcastically).
At which point, Jim Shooter stepped in (just as he'd done on GHOST RIDER and THE AVENGERS). And somehow Gil Kane got roped in (for awhile). JUST as the book went bi-monthly (sales must have been tanking), Shooter, Kane & the returning Janson unleashed a high-speed NIGHTMARE story of epic proportions, apparently determined to take everything Wolfman had let slide for far too long, and handle it in the most nerve-wracking, character-destructive way possible.
Truthfully, it was the only time Shooter ever came in determined to F*** OVER all the characters on a series, that it actually worked. But, as he always did, he LEFT other people to clean up all his damage. What a "nice guy" (he said, sarcastically).
The only part I couldn't figure was, how Gil Kane was replaced by Carmine Infantino for 2 issues in a row in the middle of a BI-MONTHLY scheduled storyline. and then after one more Kane issue (the most TRAUMATIC in the entire story), he left again, along with Shooter (who got that promotion he was no doubt pushing for) and Gene Colan came back with new writer Roger McKenzie to finish up the whole mess.
Some things you don't forget.
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Post by profh0011 on Jun 8, 2021 8:22:33 GMT -5
I just read a bunch of those from my to read pile that's been sitting for a while.. they are, indeed, pretty terrible. I can see why they did the 'Threeboot' (which I like alot.. probably my favorite Legion)... there was really no choice. "Threeboot" (Mark Waid & Barry Kitson) was-- what?-- 8 or 10 years after the ZERO HOUR reboot that was a result of "Five Years Later".
What got me was... so many people in KLORDNY kept right on going with Giffen and what followed. It was ZERO HOUR that caused 3/4ths of the groups members to quit, en masse, and never look back.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 8, 2021 8:52:24 GMT -5
I love those JLI books. Anyway, I read Sub-Mariner #34 & 35. The Titans Three story (Roy Thomas, Sal Buscema, Jim Mooney) which is basically a Defenders prototype. Pretty good story overall, as Namor recruits the Silver Surfer and Hulk to try to get the humans to stop their potentially dangerous testing of a weather control machine. I’m not sure why someone as powerful as Namor (and the device is on an island, so he will be close to water) needs help with some puny humans, but it’s an excuse to get these three loners together. Part two has three Avengers show up to stop the “threat” of the proto-Defenders. I have to say, Namor is shockingly non-violent and reasonable in this story. I imagine Roy Thomas is trying to make him a sympathetic character, since he is after all the star of the book. Surfer and Thor also act reasonably here, but Hulk (no surprise), Goliath Clint Barton (no surprise) and Iron Man (a bit of a surprise) act like hotheaded idiots. A couple of other odd things are that when Surfer & Iron Man collided, they both got knocked out, not just Iron Man (I guess we needed the Surfer out of the fight) and that the General who was a jerk earlier totally took Namor at his word about the danger the weather machine represented at the end. Still, an entertaining story, and we get an early Avengers-Defenders War!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 9, 2021 9:31:21 GMT -5
I just read a bunch of those from my to read pile that's been sitting for a while.. they are, indeed, pretty terrible. I can see why they did the 'Threeboot' (which I like alot.. probably my favorite Legion)... there was really no choice. "Threeboot" (Mark Waid & Barry Kitson) was-- what?-- 8 or 10 years after the ZERO HOUR reboot that was a result of "Five Years Later".
What got me was... so many people in KLORDNY kept right on going with Giffen and what followed. It was ZERO HOUR that caused 3/4ths of the groups members to quit, en masse, and never look back.
Something like that. What came before was good... (with the Triangle era and the two titles) but they left out alot, and did some weird stuff. Abnett/Lanning did a nice job toward the end, that was good too... but there was just so much baggage at that point.
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Post by profh0011 on Jun 9, 2021 13:58:26 GMT -5
My late best friend once said, if they're going to copmpletely reboot LEGION history with Zero Hour, why should he care about anything that comes after it, when they can just "do it again in another 5 years" ? His question proved more prophetic than either of us could have guessed.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 9, 2021 14:35:58 GMT -5
My late best friend once said, if they're going to copmpletely reboot LEGION history with Zero Hour, why should he care about anything that comes after it, when they can just "do it again in another 5 years" ? His question proved more prophetic than either of us could have guessed. Very true, but I did love that reboot Legion.
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Post by commond on Jun 9, 2021 19:35:58 GMT -5
I have been slowly chipping away at Five Years Later, which I've never read through to the end. It becomes slightly more comprehensible when Pearson takes over on pencils. I had no idea what was going on when Giffen was the penciller.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 10, 2021 8:28:52 GMT -5
My late best friend once said, if they're going to copmpletely reboot LEGION history with Zero Hour, why should he care about anything that comes after it, when they can just "do it again in another 5 years" ? His question proved more prophetic than either of us could have guessed. Who knew at the time it was going to apply to the whole DCU, not just the Legion? Crisis 1986 Zero Hour 1994 Infinite Crisis 2005 (not sure that counts...) Flashpoint/New 52 2011 Convergence 2015 Death Metal/Infinite Frontier 2020-2021
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