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Post by brutalis on Jun 10, 2021 9:39:30 GMT -5
Finished up my reading of Marvel's Tarzan this week. Entire series a delight filled with wonderful Byscema artistry by John and Sal. Series kind of loses track here and there during the run, no doubt due to Roy Thomas not being as devoted to ERB as REH.
Think Roy had problems on how best to adapt Burroughs stories as they are longer which makes for difficult reading spread over 6 or more issues. Shorter adaptation would of benefitted our Lord of the Jungle as the 3 annuals showed and provided a stronger jumping on into the series. But overall it is a fun, faithful and entertaining read.
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Roquefort Raider
CCF Mod Squad
Modus omnibus in rebus
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 10, 2021 9:42:22 GMT -5
Right. Gotta defend that run!!!
Five Years Later was a brilliant piece of work; a true science-fiction novel in graphic form. It suffered somewhat from fannish overindulgence on the part of the creators, and from the last few issues' relentless doom, gloom and depression, but for the first three years it was a great comic; it really pushed boundaries, both in storytelling approaches and with what it did with (and to) old and beloved characters; plus it didn't shy away from consequences. The nine panel grid, the willingness to let readers connect the dots by themselves, the receding hairlines of aging heroes, the whole "idealistic heroes in bright costumes vs an ugly reality" theme, it all combined to make LSH a must-buy book every month.
The complete reboot was a major disappointment for me, because most of the tantalizing and dangling plot lines were just abandoned... but I understand how the 5YL team had basically painted themselves into a corner by killing so many characters and neutering so many others. Nevertheless, I dropped the two titles for several years until being lured back by that old nemesis, Nostalgia Lass, and I must admit that the "Archie Legion" really grew on me, mostly on account of Moy's artwork. Then, of course, Lanning, Abnett and Coipel knocked it out of the ballpark with their "Legion of the damned" storyline, which I still see as my favourite Legion story ever. Too bad that era was also wiped out later by yet another reboot, and by then Nostalgia Lass had grown old and tired and moved to a nursing home.
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Post by MDG on Jun 10, 2021 10:01:27 GMT -5
Right. Gotta defend that run!!! Five Years Later was a brilliant piece of work; a true science-fiction novel in graphic form. It suffered somewhat from fannish overindulgence on the part of the creators, and from the last few issues' relentless doom, gloom and depression, but for the first three years it was a great comic; it really pushed boundaries, both in storytelling approaches and with what it did with (and to) old and beloved characters, and it didn't shy away from consequences. The nine panel grid, the willingness to let readers connect the dots by themselves, the receding hairlines of aging heroes, the whole "idealistic heroes in bright costumes vs an ugly reality" theme, it all combined to make LSH a must-buy book every month. I'm in the middle on this. I looooove Giffen's art at this time and thought Al Gordon (right?) was a sympatico inker, which Giffen needed.
On the other hand, my tolerance for the Legion is minimal--Levitz/Giffen were able to keep me on board, but for some reason the Bierbaum's got on my nerves and I bailed pretty quickly.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 10, 2021 16:03:58 GMT -5
I have been slowly chipping away at Five Years Later, which I've never read through to the end. It becomes slightly more comprehensible when Pearson takes over on pencils. I had no idea what was going on when Giffen was the penciller. Yeah, I thought he did a lousy job. Lazy, too, with him using so many different way to avoid drawing faces, not to mention that repetitive 9 panel per page layout, not to mention that his drawing style got so ugly that it was hard to tell what was going on at times.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 10, 2021 16:10:43 GMT -5
Finished up my reading of Marvel's Tarzan this week. Entire series a delight filled with wonderful Byscema artistry by John and Sal. Series kind of loses track here and there during the run, no doubt due to Roy Thomas not being as devoted to ERB as REH. Think Roy had problems on how best to adapt Burroughs stories as they are longer which makes for difficult reading spread over 6 or more issues. Shorter adaptation would of benefitted our Lord of the Jungle as the 3 annuals showed and provided a stronger jumping on into the series. But overall it is a fun, faithful and entertaining read. I read the Marvel Tarzan stuff a year or so ago. The Roy Thomas stuff was good, but the David Kraft stuff might have been even better. The Bill Mantlo stuff was decent, but the last couple of issues weren't that good. I liked the Marvel Tarzan series more than the DC version.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 10, 2021 16:13:59 GMT -5
I fairly detested the Five Years Later run, except for the issues with Tenzil Kem. He should have gotten his own series. The rest of it was too dark, dreary, and depressing for me, as well as somewhat incomprehensible, plus such a radical departure from the previous Legion that I have to consider it a separate continuity. And yes, definitely some overindulgence on the part of the creators, plus Giffen's art style was so hideous by this point (hey, he used to be good, why did he chance??) that it seriously detracted from my enjoyment of the series, such as it was.
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Post by earl on Jun 10, 2021 19:58:49 GMT -5
Latest read has been Conan: The Road of Kings 1-8 and a couple of issues 11-12 of the Defenders. The Conan series is a return by Roy Thomas. Artwork is more of a modern style and perhaps not ideal for Conan but it has grown on me as the artist Mike Hawthorne does do some nice storytelling and page layout work. Roy's story is pretty good and it all moves fast and follows up well from where Tim Truman had left the Dark Horse Conan series at the end of the 25 issue Conan the Cimmerian run.
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Post by brutalis on Jun 10, 2021 20:29:54 GMT -5
Haven't read the 5YL since buying it new at the LCS. Remember liking various aspects of it all. At the time. As others note: it felt and was more pure science-fiction than science-fantasy as LOSH always was before. I recognized quickly as a teen that it was all pseudo-science-fantasy playing very fast and loose with the future.
5YL was adult, serious, dark and perfectly suited to those of us turning teen to young adult. After years of future super heroics a dose of grit and serious was new and refreshing. This was before EVERYTHING in comics went grim and dark. I am not sure how I will feel whenever I re-read it. Changes in the world over the last few decades may provide new depth and insights or will it sour my read?
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Post by spoon on Jun 11, 2021 23:28:24 GMT -5
I read Avengers #236-254, Avengers Annual #11-13, and West Coast Avengers #1-4 (limited series). This was the continuation of a big Avengers binge from a prior post.
I really like Roger Stern's writing. He's what makes this run. It's not anything flashy. He just knows how to make the characters seem like real people (I think he did that better than Shooter who preceded him). He also weaves the long-running Absolute Vision subplot through with the ongoing short term plots in an organic way. The end is a bit abrupt though. Most of the art is by Al Milgrom, but the inkers (mostly Sinnott) do a good job neutralizing his worst traits. Bob Hall penciles the West Coast mini and then jumps on the main book, and his art is much improved from his prior stint on Avengers.
I like how Stern launches WCA with some characters who have been sidelined or are otherwise misfits. He does a good job revitalizing Tigra who Shooter treated too much like a plot device. There's a short arc with Jessica Drew that continues from the end of the Spider-Woman series. I've only read the first half of that series, but my understanding is that she sort of dies at the end. There must have been a ton of outraged letters. The Avengers letter page announced the story was upcoming several months in advance and noted they got letters asking about Spider-Woman.
I read Avengers #211-230 a few months back to join in on the CCF Podcast threads on those issues, so I'm in the mindset of comparing the two runs. Whereas Shooter emphasized the original Avengers and the Big 3, Stern writes the Big 3 out of many issues of this run, mostly to deal with events in their solo titles. I'm cool with that, because I love when Avengers puts the spotlight on long-term members without solo titles. Vision, Scarlet Witch, Captain Marvel, Starfox, Hawkeye (mostly in WCA, but also in the main title), and Mockingbird (same), Wonder Man (same), and Tigra (same) all get their share of attention. I don't have so much exposure to the Eternals, so it was interesting to read an arc focused on them. I didn't realize this was apparently when the revelation of the link between the Eternals on Earth and on Titan was made.
It's funny that while membership changes in the series often come with pomp and circumstance, the reintroduction of Hercules is the exact opposite. When the Casket of Ancient Winters is unleashed, Hercules comes to help out . . . and then just sort of stays. I wonder if Stern was bummed about She-Hulk being shipped off to the Fantastic Four, because he manages to bring in for additional appearances here and there.
After #254, there's a bunch of issues I've read before, so my plan was to stop at this point, and probably switch over to West Coast Avengers ongoing, which starts a few months later. I may read some other comics first though (or perhaps simultaneously).
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Post by commond on Jun 12, 2021 10:42:15 GMT -5
The first time I read Five Years Later, I only read the first dozen issues or so, and it was on the back of reading all of the classic Legion runs that proceeded it. I remember enjoying it quite a lot. With this read through, I can't understand who anybody is. They don't wear their costumes, they refer to each other by their real names, and the artwork makes it impossible to understand what is going on. Not only that, but you have to read the text pages at the end of each issue to completely understand the story. I remember when I was a kid that the covers would always look great in Direct Currents. I'd read the blurb for what was happening in the issue and make up the contents in my head. I did that for quite a few DC titles that I couldn't afford. I would use my GI Joe figures to act out whatever the blurb said.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 16:29:02 GMT -5
After #254, there's a bunch of issues I've read before, so my plan was to stop at this point, and probably switch over to West Coast Avengers ongoing, which starts a few months later. I may read some other comics first though (or perhaps simultaneously). I liked this era of Avengers as well, and agree with your comments on Stern's writing. Iron Man Annual 7 is another good one to read/re-read from this time with the direct tie into the West Coast Avengers. I love your Quislet avatar by the way!
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Post by spoon on Jun 12, 2021 16:53:16 GMT -5
After #254, there's a bunch of issues I've read before, so my plan was to stop at this point, and probably switch over to West Coast Avengers ongoing, which starts a few months later. I may read some other comics first though (or perhaps simultaneously). I liked this era of Avengers as well, and agree with your comments on Stern's writing. Iron Man Annual 7 is another good one to read/re-read from this time with the direct tie into the West Coast Avengers. I love your Quislet avatar by the way! Thank you! Not everyone recognizes Quislet. I wish I had Iron Man Annual #7, because I see it reference in West Coast Avengers #1 (ongoing) which I just read today. On the other hand, I do have the 12-part Vision & the Scarlet Witch limited series, which I hear ties in with WCA a bit, so my plan right now is to read them together.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 16:54:46 GMT -5
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Post by brutalis on Jun 12, 2021 18:29:27 GMT -5
Must say, that looks absolutely smashing! 😉
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Jun 13, 2021 17:05:52 GMT -5
Thor 154-166
These issues are pretty good, with Kirby developing a more epic style, characterized by multiple full page spreads per issue and more complex costume and tech designs. Issues 154-157 are notable for being the first real Ragnarok storyline (the concept was previously touched upon in the Tales of Asgard backup strip). The menace is Mangog, a being comprised of "billions of billions" of people condemned to imprisonment by Odin at some point in the past and accidentally freed by Ulik of the trolls. Basically, he has infinite strength and all of Asgard must unite to stop him. All except Odin who is conveniently indisposed by the Odin Sleep. Also conveniently, Odin awakes just in time to put an end to Mangog by ending the curse of the billions of billions and setting them free. Reading so many 60s and 70s comics over the last year, the use of deus ex machina resolutions in the final pages of a story is ridiculously high. One drawback of binging old comics is all the cliches and repetition that was easier to take in monthly installments.
Next was a two parter that finally explained the whole Don Blake mystery, probably done mostly to shut up the letterhacks who had been complaining that the original premise of Blake as an independent person who existed prior to discovering Mjolnir had been long ignored by Lee and Kirby and no longer made sense. This was followed by a true high point of the run, a three part story featuring Galactus vs Ego the Living Planet, with Thor and the Recorder (observation: one of my favorite obscure Marvel characters) only able to witness this epic cosmic struggle from the sidelines. Until the next deus ex machina climax that is, which leaves the conflict between Galactus and Ego unresolved, basically the comic book equivalent of a 60 minute Broadway between the NWA champ and a top challenger you didn't want to beat. However, an interesting development of this story is Odin's discovery of a being such as Galactus and a growing obsession with finding out how to destroy him before he decides to consume Asgard. 162 features the first telling of Galactus' origin, brought on by Odin's request, in order for him to understand this grave threat better.
Next is a two-parter featuring the return of Olympian villain Pluto, last seen in the Hercules issues in the 120s, and his overly complicated revenge plan on Thor that requires going to earth's atomic ravaged future and bringing back "mutates" as his minions. Not a high point of the run. A subplot from this two-parter leads to another two-parter, this one featuring the return of Him, the future Adam Warlock, from the FF. It's interesting to see, beginning with issue 160, the book basically turn into a vehicle for fleshing out Kirby concepts created for FF, first Galactus and then Him, and as I pause, the ongoing Galactus storyline is about to reach a climax. Kirby clearly wanted to develop these characters, and they do fit in the Thor world, especially such a grand cosmic being like Galactus. Very interested how it all plays out
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