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Post by driver1980 on Oct 6, 2024 9:45:26 GMT -5
When it comes to comics though, honestly I'm not impressed by a lot of it. It just has a sterile aesthetic to me in many cases. So much looks the same. Especially with colourists modelling the heck out of everything and colouring line art. A lot ends up looking AI generated. Like you said, sterile. I’m not saying every modern comic is like this, but let me put it this way: if you showed me an old comic panel, I might say, “Ah, yes, that’s Spidey swinging in a comic of Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man, circa 1985. In fact, I can name the issue.” (I know others might do the same) But you might show me a modern drawing of Cap, and my response could be, “Ah, you see, it could be a 2004 issue, it could be from Civil War, or maybe it’s from a page of his most recent book. I really couldn’t tell you.” |
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Oct 6, 2024 10:27:06 GMT -5
Tech may make it easier, but the philosophy of reusing things has been a part of comics forever...
"Never draw anything you can copy, never copy anything you can trace, never trace anything you can cut out and paste up."
-Wally Wood
Many artists use to keep files of stock poses and faces they would just lightbox onto the page or create stats and paste it up onto the page. Using digital is the same process, just quicker and easier. When you work on a tight deadline for low page rates, you are going to take shortcuts to get the job done. Thinking it didn't happen before digital is another example of looking at things through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses and not accepting the reality of how things actually were.
-M
PS as for digital inking, well at least inkers don't have to use assistants to ink all the background now and just do the figures themselves as many inkers did back in the day to make deadlines.
And PPS-at least with the ability to make digital corrections editorial asks for, we don't get Murphy Anderson, Al Pastino or whomever faces on Kirby Superman bodies anymore, or Romita faces and heads on Starlin pages, or whomever they had redo the Hulk's face on Steranko's cover for the annual, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2024 10:58:23 GMT -5
Artwork like this, and the Spidey one above it, would explain why I wouldn't pay $3.99-$5.99 cover price for this low quality bollocks.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 6, 2024 12:54:35 GMT -5
So much looks the same. Especially with colourists modelling the heck out of everything and colouring line art. A lot ends up looking AI generated. Like you said, sterile. I’m not saying every modern comic is like this, but let me put it this way: if you showed me an old comic panel, I might say, “Ah, yes, that’s Spidey swinging in a comic of Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man, circa 1985. In fact, I can name the issue.” (I know others might do the same) But you might show me a modern drawing of Cap, and my response could be, “Ah, you see, it could be a 2004 issue, it could be from Civil War, or maybe it’s from a page of his most recent book. I really couldn’t tell you.”  |
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Post by rich on Oct 6, 2024 13:03:36 GMT -5
Artwork like this, and the Spidey one above it, would explain why I wouldn't pay $3.99-$5.99 cover price for this low quality bollocks.
This is satirical... I'm guessing the art is deliberately bad to mock such work? I'm not sure where it's from, but it gets reposted whenever artists get pulled up for doing excessive copy and paste crap. |
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Post by rich on Oct 6, 2024 13:08:37 GMT -5
Tech may make it easier, but the philosophy of reusing things has been a part of comics forever... "Never draw anything you can copy, never copy anything you can trace, never trace anything you can cut out and paste up." -Wally Wood Many artists use to keep files of stock poses and faces they would just lightbox onto the page or create stats and paste it up onto the page. Using digital is the same process, just quicker and easier. When you work on a tight deadline for low page rates, you are going to take shortcuts to get the job done. Thinking it didn't happen before digital is another example of looking at things through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses and not accepting the reality of how things actually were. In my opinion you can't say a digital copy and paste job is no worse than a penciller that traced. By the time you trace something, and then an inker comes in and inks it by hand, the small differences add up and can pass as different facial expressions... it doesn't have the same uncanny valley effect that a perfect digital copy has. Plus it requires some level of effort. I'm also not a fan of doing much tracing... I despise Greg Land's crap whether he's tracing or whether he's just manipulating his latest porn screen grab in photoshop, for example. (I can't believe he's found so much employment from the big two when he just swipes the same images over and over again, decade after decade.) |
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Post by rich on Oct 6, 2024 13:16:52 GMT -5
PS as for digital inking, well at least inkers don't have to use assistants to ink all the background now and just do the figures themselves as many inkers did back in the day to make deadlines. And PPS-at least with the ability to make digital corrections editorial asks for, we don't get Murphy Anderson, Al Pastino or whomever faces on Kirby Superman bodies anymore, or Romita faces and heads on Starlin pages, or whomever they had redo the Hulk's face on Steranko's cover for the annual, etc. Klaus Janson is frequently accused of using assistants to do the backgrounds on his images, back when he was the most in demand inker in the land, but he angrily denies this common accusation. Typically assistants just rubbed out pencil marks, filled in large black sections and sometimes cut and pasted zip-a-tone where they were told, apparently. Only a few inkers in studios used to share inking jobs- unless you have someone financially minded, like Neal Adams, divvying up exactly what everyone earns from a job it becomes more trouble than it's worth. I agree that digitally editing art is much easier, but it's just as easy now to do a digital edit over the top of original art once it's been scanned. I liked the bonus Romita touches, by the way 😅 |
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Post by rich on Oct 6, 2024 13:38:52 GMT -5
or create stats and paste it up onto the page. Using digital is the same process, just quicker and easier. Sorry, I misread this sentence. Yes, pasting stats is equally as bad. I can't recall seeing it, though? Artists using stats of one panel repeatedly? I'm sure it happened, but tracing on a light box and re-inking seemed more common- like in comics where they had talking heads on television sets. I can't think of any examples of perfect copies in any Silver or Bronze Age books, off the top of my head, but can easily draw to mind dozens of examples of copy and paste stuff in modern comics. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 6, 2024 16:09:09 GMT -5
or create stats and paste it up onto the page. Using digital is the same process, just quicker and easier. Sorry, I misread this sentence. Yes, pasting stats is equally as bad. I can't recall seeing it, though? Artists using stats of one panel repeatedly? I'm sure it happened, but tracing on a light box and re-inking seemed more common- like in comics where they had talking heads on television sets. I can't think of any examples of perfect copies in any Silver or Bronze Age books, off the top of my head, but can easily draw to mind dozens of examples of copy and paste stuff in modern comics. Not Silver or Bronze Age, but Mac Raboy used stats ALL the time, particularly on Captain Marvel Jr. |
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Post by rich on Oct 6, 2024 17:21:37 GMT -5
Sorry, I misread this sentence. Yes, pasting stats is equally as bad. I can't recall seeing it, though? Artists using stats of one panel repeatedly? I'm sure it happened, but tracing on a light box and re-inking seemed more common- like in comics where they had talking heads on television sets. I can't think of any examples of perfect copies in any Silver or Bronze Age books, off the top of my head, but can easily draw to mind dozens of examples of copy and paste stuff in modern comics. Not Silver or Bronze Age, but Mac Raboy used stats ALL the time, particularly on Captain Marvel Jr. This shows how little ai know about Golden Age comics- I had heard of neither the creator nor the comic!! |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 6, 2024 19:59:08 GMT -5
Not Silver or Bronze Age, but Mac Raboy used stats ALL the time, particularly on Captain Marvel Jr. This shows how little ai know about Golden Age comics- I had heard of neither the creator nor the comic!! Captain Marvel Jr? Taught Elvis everything he knew........  TCB! |
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Post by rich on Oct 7, 2024 5:53:48 GMT -5
Continuing from what I wrote yesterday...
Editors that employ Greg Land deserve to be hated. There, I said it. Anyone disagree? 😅
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Post by impulse on Oct 7, 2024 7:53:49 GMT -5
When I first saw Land's work in my...probably early 20s? I went WOW, it's so realistic! This guy is so good!
Then, I gradually noticed "huh, this guy repeats a lot of the same poses and facial expressions. I guess with this much detail, you have to do what you have to do to meet the deadline."
Then it was like "huh, a lot of these expressions and poses don't really match what is happening in the book. Also, that character's face looks a lot different on this page than the other."
Then "okay, uhhh... what am I watching here? Some of the faces these women are making seem...uhhh...private?"
Between this growing realization and online chatter, it became increasingly obvious this guy traces, and not only that he traces, but WHAT he traces.
I'm surprised Marvel allows it, but I guess he sells books.
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Post by rich on Oct 7, 2024 8:11:06 GMT -5
When I first saw Land's work in my...probably early 20s? I went WOW, it's so realistic! This guy is so good! Then, I gradually noticed "huh, this guy repeats a lot of the same poses and facial expressions. I guess with this much detail, you have to do what you have to do to met the deadline." Then it was like "huh, a lot of these expressions and poses don't really much what is happening in the book. Also, that character's face looks a lot different on this page than the other." Then "okay, uhhh... what am I watching here? Some of the faces these women are making seem...uhhh...private?" Between this growing realization and online chatter, it became increasingly obvious this guy traces, and not only that he traces, but WHAT he traces. I'm surprised Marvel allow it, but I guess he sells books. Apparently he's a nice guy and he's quick, and morals have been thin on the ground at the big publishers this millennium, so they clearly don't care that he endlessly photoshops porn and wrestling images, and even the art of other comic book artists. The last bit really is a low blow and has upset tons of artists that don't get paid for the art of theirs he steals. |
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Post by commond on Oct 7, 2024 8:45:07 GMT -5
I don't see what the big deal is. All of the greats swiped, and it's not a crime to trace from photo reference.
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