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Post by rich on Oct 7, 2024 8:51:35 GMT -5
I don't see what the big deal is. All of the greats swiped, and it's not a crime to trace from photo reference. Um, no. It is potentially a crime to screen grab someone else's art, tweak it, then sell it and take credit for it. Google the Aliens cover controversy. Please also let us know which great artists copy and paste other artists work and pass it off as theirs, so we can avoid them. Editing screen grabs is not in the same ball park as tracing a pose- it's a different 'sport'. |
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Post by commond on Oct 7, 2024 9:04:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2024 9:30:04 GMT -5
Continuing from what I wrote yesterday... Editors that employ Greg Land deserve to be hated. There, I said it. Anyone disagree? 😅 I'm not too annoyed if he traces, as long as the finished product looks good on paper. There are other artists who do less than average renditions of the female form. |
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Post by DubipR on Oct 7, 2024 10:00:08 GMT -5
Continuing from what I wrote yesterday... Editors that employ Greg Land deserve to be hated. There, I said it. Anyone disagree? 😅 I'm not too annoyed if he traces, as long as the finished product looks good on paper. There are other artists who do less than average renditions of the female form. I have a sketch from Greg Land of Black Canary. No lightbox at his table but he pretty looked at a picture of Arwyn from Sojourn, tweaked her hair and changed her costume to Canary but its gorgeous! And FREE! |
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Post by rich on Oct 7, 2024 10:19:36 GMT -5
I don't necessarily blame Land for it, especially now- he's had a lousy time health wise and he's near retirement- but for the editors who enabled his behaviour. As an individual of course he wants to earn the most he can in the shortest space of time. He doesn't seem to lack artistic ability, but he's found he can get away with it, and certain fans lap up the 'sexy' porno faces. 🤷🏼♂️
What he does far surpasses what Wally Wood or Kirby used to do... it's insulting to Kirby that we'd mention his name in this conversation. 🙁
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Post by rich on Oct 7, 2024 10:21:09 GMT -5
Continuing from what I wrote yesterday... Editors that employ Greg Land deserve to be hated. There, I said it. Anyone disagree? 😅 I'm not too annoyed if he traces, as long as the finished product looks good on paper. There are other artists who do less than average renditions of the female form. If he just traced, that would be one thing. It's the digital copy and paste jobs that take the biscuit. |
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 7, 2024 10:46:27 GMT -5
There is a mile of difference between drawing from a photo reference or redrawing the occasional panel. as artists like Kirby and Wood did. And tracing a photo or other artist.
Williamson often used his own photos as reference.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 7, 2024 11:06:59 GMT -5
This shows how little ai know about Golden Age comics- I had heard of neither the creator nor the comic!! Captain Marvel Jr? Taught Elvis everything he knew........  TCB! By Agon's genes, DON'T LET HIM SING!!!  |
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Post by impulse on Oct 7, 2024 11:12:33 GMT -5
So, I believe there's a difference between the allowable amount of overlap in publishing a monthly periodical on time versus creating a work of art, and that while some amount of influence and overlap is inevitable, each would have different tolerances.
I'm also sure that a certain level of influence or swiping is inevitable in comics, whether intentional or just absorbing what you see your peers do subconsciously. The lines can certainly get fuzzy between homage, photo referencing, tracing photos, whose photo, etc, and I don't say there is a firm hard line anywhere.
...but if there were, I would think tracing and copy-pasting the literal exact same porn and wrestling mag panels over and over would be over it. Is it different enough not to be plagiarism? Maybe.
But it's not cool.
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Post by rich on Oct 7, 2024 11:14:43 GMT -5
There is a mile of difference between drawing from a photo reference or redrawing the occasional panel. as artists like Kirby and Wood did. And tracing a photo or other artist. Williamson often used his own photos as reference. Absolutely. We all know Alex Ross paints heavily from photo references, but they're usually HIS photographs. Land, meanwhile will just like a Spiderman that someone else drew and copy and paste it straight onto his cover, maybe pushing the boat out and rotating it or flipping it first. |
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Post by commond on Oct 7, 2024 16:47:55 GMT -5
I have zero problem with artists' tracing from photos. They don't have to be your own photos. If you can't draw guns, automobiles, fighter jets or horses, find a photo reference and trace it. Land takes it a step further by tracing a Sports Illustrated cover, but if you don't think great artists of the past did the same thing with reference material then I have a bridge to sell you.
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Post by rberman on Oct 7, 2024 19:04:09 GMT -5
I have zero problem with artists' tracing from photos. They don't have to be your own photos. If you can't draw guns, automobiles, fighter jets or horses, find a photo reference and trace it. Land takes it a step further by tracing a Sports Illustrated cover, but if you don't think great artists of the past did the same thing with reference material then I have a bridge to sell you. There are right and wrong ways to do it. If it calls attention to itself, that's not good. For instance, Greg Land sometimes makes photorealistic images that have the expression he's looking for but is clearly a different person than the one used to reference that same character on another panel. Or uses the same distinctive reference photograph for a face in two different scenes in the same book. It takes me out of the story when that happens. That said, I do have a Land page from Iron Man that I'm happy with. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 7, 2024 21:07:11 GMT -5
Captain Marvel Jr? Taught Elvis everything he knew........ TCB! By Agon's genes, DON'T LET HIM SING!!! 'LORD ALMIGHTY, I feel my temperature rising....." AIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE! LOOK OUT! RUNAWAY! WE'RE ALL DOOMED!"Just a Bolt...a bolt of burnin' love......burnin' love" Ah, thank ya, thank yaveramuch! BLACK BOLT HAS LEFT THE REFUGE! |
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Post by berkley on Oct 8, 2024 1:17:44 GMT -5
There are right and wrong ways to do it. If it calls attention to itself, that's not good. That's the key for me. If it looks like someone just traced a photo and then altered a few features, that's a turn-off. I can't remember what Greg Land's art looks like but off the top of my head, Adam Hughes's covers often strike me that way, but possibly it's just an illusion engendered by his style. But someone like Alec Ross, even though I don't like his style at all, has never looked to me like he was simply tracing: it makes sense to me that he would use models and/or photos to get the lighting and shadows effects right, as any working artist would do if they have the time and resources. Swiping poses or compositions from other artists (or from oneself) and drawing from photo-references (as opposed to simply tracing) must be indispensable tools for a comics artist meeting monthly deadlines, I would imagine. |
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Post by rich on Oct 8, 2024 1:55:10 GMT -5
I have zero problem with artists' tracing from photos. They don't have to be your own photos. If you can't draw guns, automobiles, fighter jets or horses, find a photo reference and trace it. Land takes it a step further by tracing a Sports Illustrated cover, but if you don't think great artists of the past did the same thing with reference material then I have a bridge to sell you. Ah, you're just totally unaware of what he's done, I see. You wouldn't have typed this otherwise. I'll post some of his theft in a bit. It's quite funny. 👍🏼 |
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