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Post by driver1980 on Oct 2, 2024 15:03:17 GMT -5
On black and white reprints, quite a few Marvel UK comics I read as a kid only had partial colour. And then I discovered the 70s titles like Mighty World of Marvel which were almost entirely colour (covers aside). So I got used to it. However, most of the DC stuff I read as a kid was in colour, such as the annuals published by Egmont. I found b/w really suited bleak strips featuring the likes of the Hulk, Doctor Strange, Punisher, and Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos. However, b/w didn’t quite work for me when it came to the likes of Superman and The Flash. That said, I did buy as many “Essential” and “Showcase” volumes as I could due to their affordability. I believe b/w worked better for Marvel than DC because I always found DC to be more fantastical when opposed to the “fantastical but world outside your window nature” of Marvel. So, I’m thinking about how great pages like this looked:  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2024 19:01:58 GMT -5
I love the colouring and art in this Hardcover and it's over 40 years old.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2024 19:09:24 GMT -5
And I know I'm in the minority here, but if MAD does more full-colour reprints of stories originally done in B&W, I'll get them. Especially Mort Drucker stories. I'm not the biggest fan of B&W, sorry.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 2, 2024 20:02:41 GMT -5
Sometimes, for sure! I LOVE Tomb of Dracula in black and white, as well as some Savage Sword of Conan collections (some of that was probably black and white originally, of course). Jonah Hex is pretty great too. Even some of the client Marvel silver age stuff is pretty good, like Spidey. Kirby in black and white is OK, but definitely not as good. My first exposure to Jonah Hex was the two Showcase Presents books that collected the Weird Western Tales stories and then the first 25 or so issues of his "solo" ongoing. I'd never gotten into the Marvel Essentials B&W books, but there was just SOMETHING about Hex in black and white that grabbed me, so much so that I went and bought the rest of the series, which I probably wouldn't have done if not for reading those first stories without color. |
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Post by Batflunkie on Oct 2, 2024 21:59:20 GMT -5
Continuing the topic of color in comics: I was introduced to Howard The Duck in B&W (Essentials) and Judge Dredd in color (Eagle and Fleetway/Quality reprints). Howard in black and white, especially with Gene Colan's art made the stories seem seedy and grounded, but still incredibly outlandish.
Dredd's world (in the era before 2000 AD was in full-colour) had the intended effect of being black satire of a bizarre future parody turned up to 11. The bubblegum coloring book feel just made it feel like you double dipped your Adam West Batman into a steaming vat of Dirty Harry
It took me some time to warm up to the pair of them in their intended formats, but I still prefer them home I originally read them in some instances
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Post by tartanphantom on Oct 2, 2024 22:06:56 GMT -5
Sometimes, for sure! I LOVE Tomb of Dracula in black and white, as well as some Savage Sword of Conan collections (some of that was probably black and white originally, of course). Jonah Hex is pretty great too. Even some of the client Marvel silver age stuff is pretty good, like Spidey. Kirby in black and white is OK, but definitely not as good. My first exposure to Jonah Hex was the two Showcase Presents books that collected the Weird Western Tales stories and then the first 25 or so issues of his "solo" ongoing. I'd never gotten into the Marvel Essentials B&W books, but there was just SOMETHING about Hex in black and white that grabbed me, so much so that I went and bought the rest of the series, which I probably wouldn't have done if not for reading those first stories without color.
I have a story about those Jonah Hex Showcase books-- back in the mid 2000's my son was in high school and began collecting the Showcase Presents series (along with his regular floppy collecting) because they were cheap and full of great stuff.
However, he hadn't bought the first volume of Jonah Hex yet. I asked him why, and he said that he didn't like western comics. I told him that Jonah Hex wasn't your average western comic, and that almost all of the stories were written by the same guy that wrote the '70s Spectre stories in Adventure Comics (which he loved), but he still demurred.
Later that year, I gave him the first volume as part of his birthday gift. He kind of rolled his eyes and said, "You're gonna force me to read this, aren't you?" I told him that since he now owned it, he might as well listen to his old Dad for once and check it out.
One week later, I got a call out of the blue one day-- "Dad? OK, I have to admit, you were right, I was wrong... the Jonah Hex stories are really, really, cool. Are they going to do a Volume 2?"
Mission Accomplished. He's a hardcore Hex fan to this day.  |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 2, 2024 22:24:05 GMT -5
Jonah Hex and Tomb of Dracula both looked great in B&W. So did the DC war books. Most of the super-hero books, not as much.
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Post by driver1980 on Oct 3, 2024 2:33:52 GMT -5
I can only enjoy The Savage Sword of Conan in B&W.
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Post by impulse on Oct 3, 2024 9:23:19 GMT -5
I think the color discussion is fascinating, along with how well the analogy with music and even movies works. I like to use the original Star Wars films as a metaphor in these sorts of things.
The originals were groundbreaking at the time and looked the way they did. In 2024, some people will like it, others won't. It could be due to nostalgia, general preference, etc. On the one hand, I completely understand wanting both the original experience as well as wanting to take advantage of modern technological improvements to put out enhanced or updated versions.
A lot of the color choices and general appearance (to say nothing of added scenes) were changed in the HD released on Blu-Ray and digital. Some people didn't mind. Others HATED them. There is a not-insignificant portion of people who would like a modern release that is cleaned up and enhanced but that preserves the original intent and look of the films as they came out. Like let's get the best possible presentation of the original material using modern tools, clean up issues that were side effects of limitations at the time, but otherwise, balance the colors and look so it matches the original.
I came up on late 80s/early 90s X-Books, so I'm generally more fond of the Jim Lee art than a lot of folks here. I saw a couple recolorings of one of his X-MEN covers. One was fantastic. It preserved the original color palette and choices of the era while having more fidelity, and some subtle gradients that worked with the original work. I prefer the original, but I appreciated this. Then I saw one that was, to my eyes, AWFUL. It was ridiculously overly shaded and contoured and it was just that "everything is brown" era. Whereas the first worked with the original art, this one was actively contradicting the pencils, adding things that weren't ever there. Just awful.
Modern recolorings can be extremely hit or miss with me. Same with music remasters or different formats. Basically, it comes down to how good a job they did with it and whether it fits your tastes, which is always going to be subjective.
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Post by rich on Oct 3, 2024 10:01:35 GMT -5
I think the color discussion is fascinating, along with how well the analogy with music and even movies works. I like to use the original Star Wars films as a metaphor in these sorts of things. Hmm, I'd say if we did the Star Wars analogy, this would be fairer: Imagine in 1990 Star Wars was re released in higher definition than ever before, but now with brightness, contrast and saturation boosted to 100%. Yes, it's sharper than ever before but it looks all kinds of wrong. Fast forward 34 years and the 100% brightness, contrast and saturation version is all anyone born since 1983 can remember. Should they sort the balance out now, despite that being the only version of the film a couple of generations are familiar with? Yes, they definitely should. |
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Post by impulse on Oct 3, 2024 10:19:15 GMT -5
That's sort of what they did. Not necessarily garish, but muted in some instances. Quite different from the original. I'm happy for whatever new version they want to make AS LONG AS they would also put out the "original" version as well. A faithful remaster so to speak instead of reimagining.
The original has value and is worth preserving.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 3, 2024 11:46:13 GMT -5
I never minded the improving of the presentation of Star Wars, just Lucas F@#$ing with the story and the pacing of things. That CGI run through Mos Eisley is pointless and distracting, especially with obviously CGI characters walking between the landspeeder and the Stormtroopers. You wouldn't shoot it that way, live (and didn't), so why CGI in the distractions? It's a bad filmmaking choice. Also, the pacing of Empire is thrown off by the cuts to Vader now boarding his shuttle back to his Super Star Destroyer. Who cares how he got there? Back in 1980, we didn't; we were more engrossed in Luke, hanging on for dear life, until the Falcon comes along and rescues him. that tension is killed by the shots of a slow moving Darth Vader boarding his shuttle. Again, a bad choice.
Cleaning up matte lines and sweetening effects weren't a big deal. CGI X-Wings were a bit too fake, compared to the practical models (which had a "weight" to them that CGI can't duplicate). The Jabba scene was never that necessary and doing it for comical effect lessens the menace of the death threats.
And Han didn't just shoot first...he shot only! Greedo never fired a blast. It worked better that way, as it made Han dangerous and you aren't sure you trust him, right up to the point he and Chewie return to save Luke's bacon. That was his character arc. Having Greedo miss, at point blank range, with an energy weapon, just because you don't like the "hero" shooting first, undercut the scene and the character. han isn't the hero, he's an anti-hero, until he comes under Luke and Ben's influence. His friends make him a better person...that's the whole point.
The downfall of Star Wars came when George and Marcia filed for divorce.
That example speaks as much to being as true to original intent, in coloring, more than the cleaning up and prettying of the films. The latter is giving it a bit of modern gloss, for a new generation, without really affecting the world and the story. The latter did change the story and not for any real valid past flaw that needed fixing, but because of personal insecurities about criticisms that came later. You notice in the added footage you see more people of color than in the original versions, as well as more crowded set pieces than originally done. The last part isn't as bad, except the shots created were designed to draw attention to it, not flesh out the scene. Lucas did similar things with the DVD of THX1138; but, he fleshed out the cityscape, rather than inserted people between actors or did sight gags. He just made the city look bigger than he could practically, in the early 70s, when he was shooting in the BART terminals. He left story and character alone.
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Post by impulse on Oct 3, 2024 12:21:11 GMT -5
Yes, the issue is, he didn't just restore or improve it. It included significant stylistic changes even before you consider the added or changed content.
Restore colors faded with time? Sure! Fill in the cockpit shell lines over the pilot since they were see-through in the original but intended to be solid? Sure! I don't even mind adding windows on Cloud city to the see the clouds. Fits the aesthetic and original intent.
I wish they would restore the full original theatrical cuts with modern quality, that's all. Plus any version they also want to do, but give us a "best and final" take on the original.
And I love Harmy's versions. It's more or less what I am looking for.
YES. Han didn't shoot first. Han shot. Greedo smoked.
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Post by rich on Oct 5, 2024 5:46:00 GMT -5
Traditional inking had much more character and I dislike the overly clean AI generated looking perfection of digital inking.
Does anyone prefer digital inking? If so, why?
(One credit I'll give to digital inking- it makes drawing hair easier! As opposed to messing about with whiteout.)
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Post by rich on Oct 6, 2024 5:59:57 GMT -5
I thought that topic might elicit a few strong opinions, but apparently not 😅
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