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Post by spoon on Jun 13, 2024 21:27:45 GMT -5
During which years was that ad appearing on the back covers, out of curiosity? I don't remember it so maybe it came after my time as a regular Marvel/DC reader, if was one of those companies. I looked through some of my comics that I thought might be around the era of the Bubble Bobble ad, and I discovered it on the back cover of Avengers #300. |
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Post by driver1980 on Jun 25, 2024 14:43:52 GMT -5
On sale 50 years ago today:  One presumes, going by the cover, that that is more akin to a magazine, with features in addition to a comic strip. I don’t know what the terminology would be, but comic-magazine hybrid is as clumsy as I can get. So, a question comes to mind: Was this the first time that Marvel had published a comic-magazine hybrid? EDIT: Second question, would this have been the same size as regular US comics? |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 25, 2024 14:51:02 GMT -5
On sale 50 years ago today: One presumes, going by the cover, that that is more akin to a magazine, with features in addition to a comic strip. I don’t know what the terminology would be, but comic-magazine hybrid is as clumsy as I can get. So, a question comes to mind: Was this the first time that Marvel had published a comic-magazine hybrid? No, black and white magazines had been around for a while. I believe The Spectacular Spider-Man in 1968 had been the first (issue #2 was in colour, if I'm not mistaken), but I don't know if it contained articles. Savage Tales #1 (1971) was Marvel's first serious foray into B&W magazines, and it did contain prose sections. Marvel would then publish several other titles in the same format, including many monster magazines, Deadly Hands of Kung Fu, Savage Sword of Conan, Marvel Preview, Unknown Worlds of Science-Fiction, Planet of the Apes... and I loved 'em all! |
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Post by driver1980 on Jun 25, 2024 14:54:51 GMT -5
Ah, thanks.
I still have a lot of history to learn because I grew up reading 90% reprints which may have differed from their US counterparts. I’m not sure many UK reprints reprinted feature and prose (some may have). I do remember Marvel UK reprinting DC Comics’ Star Trek: TNG comic - and it even threw in some reprints of features from Starlog.
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Jun 25, 2024 15:10:14 GMT -5
On sale 50 years ago today: One presumes, going by the cover, that that is more akin to a magazine, with features in addition to a comic strip. I don’t know what the terminology would be, but comic-magazine hybrid is as clumsy as I can get. So, a question comes to mind: Was this the first time that Marvel had published a comic-magazine hybrid? EDIT: Second question, would this have been the same size as regular US comics? I think shaxper has done a review thread of those Apes mags (or did them as part of his Doug Moench thread) here on the boards if you want a deeper look into them. -M |
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Post by driver1980 on Jun 25, 2024 15:13:52 GMT -5
Thank you, I believe I’ve missed that thread.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 25, 2024 22:25:29 GMT -5
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 2, 2024 17:31:20 GMT -5
So I'm reading the Introduction to the Aztec Ace collection and Doug Moench says that he left Marvel because he was told to "Either kill off the characters in the next issues of all my titles or make way for someone else who would." He admits that it sounds daffy and that it's been contradicted but that it's true. So has anything heard anything about this before, because I have not. I have to assume it came down from Shooter if it did. shaxper any thoughts? |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 2, 2024 19:38:17 GMT -5
It seems to be a Rashomon kind of thing.
In a nutshell, Shooter wanted MoKF to sell better, and asked Doug to shake things up any way he wanted, including killing all the characters off in need be. Doug didn't want to change the formula of a book that was the best it had been since the Gulacy days, and seemingly took that hyperbolic suggestion as an order.
The way Shooter tells it, all he wanted was something big that would raise sales; the way Doug tells it, Shooter wanted MoKF to die. Shooter claims to have loved the mag, which certainly had a devoted readership; I just don't understand why it couldn't go the way Micronauts, Ka-Zar and Moon Knight had gone (direct sales only). The mag was excellent at the time. (If raising sales was the goal, the last few issues of the series were decidedly not the way to go!)
Gene Day briefly (alas, very briefly) got a better paying gig out of the deal, since he was reassigned to do work on Indiana Jones and Star Wars. Unfortunately he was on both titles for a very short time only before passing away.
Each time the subject is broached in an interview, facts seem to remain pretty much the same... but the way they're explained makes the speaker look a little better than last time, and the other party a little more irrational.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 2, 2024 21:24:10 GMT -5
It seems to be a Rashomon kind of thing. In a nutshell, Shooter wanted MoKF to sell better, and asked Doug to shake things up any way he wanted, including killing all the characters off in need be. Doug didn't want to change the formula of a book that was the best it had been since the Gulacy days, and seemingly took that hyperbolic suggestion as an order. The way Shooter tells it, all he wanted was something big that would raise sales; the way Doug tells it, Shooter wanted MoKF to die. Shooter claims to have loved the mag, which certainly had a devoted readership; I just don't understand why it couldn't go the way Micronauts, Ka-Zar and Moon Knight had gone (direct sales only). The mag was excellent at the time. (If raising sales was the goal, the last few issues of the series were decidedly not the way to go!) Gene Day briefly (alas, very briefly) got a better paying gig out of the deal, since he was reassigned to do work on Indiana Jones and Star Wars. Unfortunately he was only on both titles for a very short time before passing away. Each time the subject is broached in an interview, facts seem to remain pretty much the same... but the way they're explained makes the speaker look a little better than last time, and the other party a little more irrational. It seems to boil down to a personality clash and professional dispute between Moench and Shooter. For my money, Moench outshines Shooter, as a writer, without trying. There are enough tales of Shooter imposing his story philosophies on writers with better proven track records than his; so I think there is an element of truth in Moench's claims. Moench, however, was also one of those 70s Marvel writers who seemed to feel that any editor's input was unnecessary and intrusive, with a very few exceptions (like Archie Goodwin). Shooter's job was to increase sales across the line; but, I think he sometimes missed the forest for the trees. I also feel his recollections of things are highly suspect, as he is always the hero who is misunderstood. Given how many people had conflict with him, the problem seemed to lie more in him than the others. Other people never had a problem with him and suggest that many who did had similar attitudes about other executives and editors, or anyone in authority. Rashomon is about as good a metaphor as any. According to Moench, he was told that MOKF had the highest sell through of any Marvel title, on newsstands, as a percentage of sales to the print run. Other titles had higher sales, but also larger print runs. However, he claims that Shooter outright refused to increase the print run to see if it would translate to higher sales or promote the title in any fashion. He basically says that Shooter made the statement that it would never happen on his watch. My best estimation is that the truth is somewhere in a murky middle of this and both parties were motivated by a dislike of the other, personally, rather than professional differences. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 3, 2024 9:11:26 GMT -5
Pretty good synopsis of the situation. Just a few points I'll add:
1. This was the start of a trend that continued through at least 1986, in which Shooter pressured creators to either replace their heroes or at least cosmetically change them to generate interest and sales. By 1986, only Daredevil remained totally unchanged because Frank Miller could do what he pleased. In the case of both Incredible Hulk and Captain America, writers were unceremoniously pulled from books and replaced with someone who immediately replaced or cosmetically altered the character (John Walker Captain America and Gray Hulk). But this was years earlier, and even I'm not sure Shooter was totally committed to this plan yet.
2. Moench claims Shooter called it his "Big Bang Theory of the Marvel Universe" and continues to be furious in interviews today that no one else will confirm this happened. Yet, in Wolfman's introduction to Crisis on Infinite Earths (you know, the story in which he reset everything to generate interest and sales) he credits a "Big Bang Theory" over at Marvel for much of the idea, though he attributes it to Gerry Conway, not Jim Shooter.
3. Shooter was a micromanager, and Moench had a long history of resenting authority, even going so far as to punch Jim Warren.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jul 3, 2024 14:29:48 GMT -5
1. This was the start of a trend that continued through at least 1986, in which Shooter pressured creators to either replace their heroes or at least cosmetically change them to generate interest and sales. By 1986, only Daredevil remained totally unchanged because Frank Miller could do what he pleased. In the case of both Incredible Hulk and Captain America, writers were unceremoniously pulled from books and replaced with someone who immediately replaced or cosmetically altered the character (John Walker Captain America and Gray Hulk). But this was years earlier, and even I'm not sure Shooter was totally committed to this plan yet. If John Byrne had stayed on the Hulk, he intended to kill the old Hulk and replace him with a new one. Mark Gruenwald had been writing Captain America for a couple of years before he replaced Steve Rogers with John Walker. Earlier, JM DeMatteis had planned to kill Steve Rogers and replace him with his native American character, the Black Crow, but Shooter wouldn't allow this. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 21, 2024 19:31:02 GMT -5
Does anyone have experience with the big, oversized collections of Marvel comics that Taschen have been putting out in recent years. I think they are published under the Marvel Comics Library banner. I've been kind of tempted by the two Lee/Ditko Spider-Man volumes for a few years. But I have all of these issues already in reprint form, so kinda felt it was probably an unnecessary and over-indulgent purchase. However, the overall high-quality production values of these books, the fact that the pages are scanned from high grade copies of the original issues (rather than modern recolourings), and the extra larger size with which to view Ditko's art, are really tempting me. So now the question: is the size or weight of these oversized Taschen collections a problem when it comes to reading them. Also, how do the scans of the artwork look when blown up much larger than a regular comic page? Any thoughts on the readability of these books or just comments on whether they're worth the money or not would be welcome. I think I'm right in saying kirby101 has the first Spider-Man volume, so I'll tag him. |
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Post by kirby101 on Jul 21, 2024 20:27:28 GMT -5
Yes I have Spider-Man V 1. I really loved it. The scans from printed comics makes it a different experience than the horribly colored masterwork reprints.
I think they did a faithful reproduction with the colors. It also has the full original art from AF 15, Library of Congress.
Now V2 is another story. They seemed to have gone with the more saturated colors of modern reprints. Not as bad but not as faithful as V1. We had a long discussion on Facebook about this including Jose Villbura. A lot of disappointment in that. I might still get V2 if I can at a discount.
They are large and heavy. I read mine on a table or on the floor.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 21, 2024 20:32:46 GMT -5
Does anyone have experience with the big, oversized collections of Marvel comics that Taschen have been putting out in recent years. I think they are published under the Marvel Comics Library banner. I've been kind of tempted by the two Lee/Ditko Spider-Man volumes for a few years. But I have all of these issues already in reprint form, so kinda felt it was probably an unnecessary and over-indulgent purchase. However, the overall high-quality production values of these books, the fact that the pages are scanned from high grade copies of the original issues (rather than modern recolourings), and the extra larger size with which to view Ditko's art, are really tempting me. So now the question: is the size or weight of these oversized Taschen collections a problem when it comes to reading them. Also, how do the scans of the artwork look when blown up much larger than a regular comic page? Any thoughts on the readability of these books or just comments on whether they're worth the money or not would be welcome. I think I'm right in saying kirby101 has the first Spider-Man volume, so I'll tag him. I haven't seen the material in question; but, Taschen is a quality publisher and I have bought many different books of theirs, from architecture & design collections, to art books, pop culture books, print advertising surveys of different decades...you name it. They were big innovators in special collectible books, such as the mammoth Helmut Newton collection, Sumo, which came with its own display stand, to make it a literal coffee table book (long before Seinfeld did that joke), to the even bigger GOAT, about Muhammad Ali to several others. The founder, Benedikt Taschen, loved art and photography books, but hated that they were so pricey and set out to provide them at more affordable costs and the company puts together great packages, with a wealth of info, from real experts. They aren't snooty about what constitutes art, either, and have done collections of things like the old Men's Adventure pulp magazine, reprints of old fetish publications like John Willie's Bizarre and Eneg's Exotique, art books devoted to Eric Stanton (with pictures of him in his shared studio, with Steve Ditko, in the 60s), pin-up art from people like George Petty and Vargas; plus, their Icons series of mini-books, which I used to have a whole shelf of, before purging large parts of my library, in a move. Compared to anyone else, including DC and Marvel, they are worth the money! |
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