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Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 19, 2015 14:21:05 GMT -5
As a man, I'm absolutely fine with this.
I think that, on average, men threatening women with physical violence should be viewed much more harshly than a woman threatening me. Wow. I don't even know what to say to that. Not all men are larger and stronger than all women. The ol' pay gap myth. I've worked jobs where I got paid less than women who had less responsibility, work and experience. Explain that. Basically I don't consider my personal experiences to be more innately important than everybody else's. I think this is where are point of views differ. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 19, 2015 14:31:45 GMT -5
Or, to put it another way, on a statistical level my experiences are worth .0001% of a percentage point - basically meaningless. I don't think that my individual experiences have any value for purposes of cultural debate, because they don't.
I'm sorry you have a rough life, dude. Mine has been pretty easy. Between JUST THE TWO OF US we cancel each other out into statistical insignificance.
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Post by badwolf on Mar 19, 2015 14:57:11 GMT -5
I don't see her fighting back at all. And the gun is actually pointed at her! You are splitting hairs. The two covers are close enough to be effectively identical. Is he doing anything sexual to her? He's not doing anything sexual to her in the new cover! You are seeing things that aren't there. |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 19, 2015 14:58:08 GMT -5
Between JUST THE TWO OF US we cancel each other out into statistical insignificance. Yeah, that's not how it works. |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 19, 2015 15:04:19 GMT -5
Well, this has been a very depressing experience. But the discussion over on CBR was more heartening.
It's too bad Jezebel isn't here.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,862
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Post by shaxper on Mar 19, 2015 15:09:54 GMT -5
Here's a cover that's closer in tone, did anyone care about it?  Actually, I'll chime in and say this was a time when that sort of depiction was appropriate because of the content of the issue. The story within was all about Barbara reliving that moment in therapy and working her way through it so as to no longer be a helpless victim. I think the controversial new cover would have worked GREAT on that issue, but it's completely inappropriate now. Context is key. Barbara was a helpless victim living in the shadow of that moment then; she is not now. |
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Post by the4thpip on Mar 19, 2015 15:11:17 GMT -5
Well, this has been a very depressing experience. But the discussion over on CBR was more heartening. That was uncalled for.  |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Mar 19, 2015 15:14:18 GMT -5
Why depressing? Because people disagreed with you? Did you find a more receptive audience on CBR?
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Post by badwolf on Mar 19, 2015 15:17:32 GMT -5
It is sad to see so many men full of self-loathing and guilt about their sex. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,862
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Post by shaxper on Mar 19, 2015 15:19:59 GMT -5
It is sad to see so many men full of self-loathing and guilt about their sex. I hope you're not assuming that all men who have an objection to the Batgirl cover could be catagorized as such. I'm proud of who I am, proud of my family's heritage, and feel neither pride nor shame in being male and white; they are simply what I am. That I am sensitive to the fact that most women and people of other skin colors have dealt with issues in our society that, frankly, have never and will never affect me personally, does not make me ashamed in the least bit of who I am; It makes me considerate. There's a difference. |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 19, 2015 15:23:46 GMT -5
It is sad to see so many men full of self-loathing and guilt about their sex. I hope you're not assuming that all men who have an objection to the Batgirl cover could be catagorized as such. I'm proud of who I am, proud of my family's heritage, and feel neither pride nor shame in being male and white; they are simply what I am. That I am sensitive to the fact that most women and people of other skin colors have dealt with issues in our society that, frankly, have never and will never affect me personally, does not make me ashamed in the least bit of who I am; It makes me considerate. There's a difference. Objecting to the cover is fine, though I don't agree with it. It's when they say things like "men should be punished more harshly than women" or feeling that they personally owe something because some women have been treated badly... there's something really wrong going on in there. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,862
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Post by shaxper on Mar 19, 2015 15:28:56 GMT -5
or feeling that they personally owe something because some women have been treated badly... there's something really wrong going on in there. I feel I personally owe women, and minorities (whether religious, racial, sexual, or otherwise) my understanding and a willingness to educate myself. Were I in their shoes, I would expect the same from others. That is not the same as feeling shame and guilt. I know my wife deals with things I will never have to deal with, and I want to change those things for her. That doesn't mean I have to feel personally responsible for them. |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 19, 2015 15:33:48 GMT -5
or feeling that they personally owe something because some women have been treated badly... there's something really wrong going on in there. I feel I personally owe women, and minorities (whether religious, racial, sexual, or otherwise) my understanding and a willingness to educate myself. Were I in their shoes, I would expect the same from others. That is not the same as feeling shame and guilt. I know my wife deals with things I will never have to deal with, and I want to change those things for her. That doesn't mean I have to feel personally responsible for them. I'm not talking about understanding. I'm talking about feeling they have to "pay." |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,862
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Post by shaxper on Mar 19, 2015 15:34:49 GMT -5
I feel I personally owe women, and minorities (whether religious, racial, sexual, or otherwise) my understanding and a willingness to educate myself. Were I in their shoes, I would expect the same from others. That is not the same as feeling shame and guilt. I know my wife deals with things I will never have to deal with, and I want to change those things for her. That doesn't mean I have to feel personally responsible for them. I'm not talking about understanding. I'm talking about feeling they have to "pay." Well, let's comb through the thread and take a head count. How many people here disagreeing with you articulated that sentiment, and how many times are you merely assuming it? |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 19, 2015 15:38:24 GMT -5
I'm not talking about understanding. I'm talking about feeling they have to "pay." Well, let's comb through the thread and take a head count. How many people here disagreeing with you articulated that sentiment, and how many times are you merely assuming it? Knock yourself out. I've already been through it once and I'm tired. Take that as giving up if you want. Somehow I know you will. |
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