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Post by fanboystranger on Dec 3, 2014 12:44:53 GMT -5
Thulsa Doom is OK, but he's a Kull villain, centuries before Conan and contemporaries. I'm okay with Thulsa Doom living for millenia. He had a bargain with the Dark Gods of the Serpent Men that kept him alive for centuries previous to sparring with Kull. Thoth-Ammon invokes Set and is essentially immortal, so why not Thulsa Doom? |
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Post by badwolf on Dec 3, 2014 12:45:09 GMT -5
The Bierbaum run seemed like it might have been good for young readers.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 3, 2014 13:03:06 GMT -5
Thulsa Doom is OK, but he's a Kull villain, centuries before Conan and contemporaries. I'm okay with Thulsa Doom living for millenia. He had a bargain with the Dark Gods of the Serpent Men that kept him alive for centuries previous to sparring with Kull. Thoth-Ammon invokes Set and is essentially immortal, so why not Thulsa Doom? Because of what comics told us about him. Thulsa Doom (who's got a skull for a head, not the face of a movie star) was killed by Kull in Marvel Preview #19, spent thousands of years in Hell, was freed from Hell (still in his skeletal form) in Conan the barbarian annual #12, and was killed again in issue 203. His rather impotent skull (still talking!) was recovered in SSoC #190, but was last seen in SSoC #193 when a god made it so Doom's skull and body could never be reunited again (and he cast them in different time periods just to make sure). Clearly, the Doom in Sonja's comic is not the proper one; it's a spin on James Earl Jones' version… because for some strange reason, many people actually like the Conan movie! ARRGH! ARRRGH! (Excuse me, I have to wipe the foam and spittle that seems to have accumulated at the corners of my mouth. It's most unbecoming!) |
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 3, 2014 14:23:43 GMT -5
The problem with marrying long-standing characters off is that it messes with the integrity of those characters. ... Imagine Bruce Wayne settling down (mentioning Robin is a stretch, and anyway he was part of the lifestyle, Bruce didn't have to be home by 8pm to tuck him into bed.) Sorry for jumping in here, but I think I agree with both sides. Yes, change is good. But after years of reading superhero comics I think modern superhero writers don't know to do it. They seem woefully unable to write good stories with married couples, children, older people, change, basically anything that isn't the same narrow range of twenty something singletons. It's a funny thing: other art forms have no problems with these things. The ancient gods and heroes were often married, Harry Potter was a kid, heck in the early days of Marvel even, change was possible: Reed and Sue got married, Nick Fury retired and got another job, and so on. But today's writers? I think they must lead boring lives and not read many real books. Outside of superheroes they cannot imagine anything beyond nine to five then retiring. I think their marriages must be extremely dull, as they cannot conceive of marriage as anything other than bland contentment. Modern superhero writers in the main grew up on superhero comics and seem to have very limited imaginations, and I think we have to accept that. Sorry if this sounds condescending. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Dec 3, 2014 14:45:28 GMT -5
I'm okay with Thulsa Doom living for millenia. He had a bargain with the Dark Gods of the Serpent Men that kept him alive for centuries previous to sparring with Kull. Thoth-Ammon invokes Set and is essentially immortal, so why not Thulsa Doom? Because of what comics told us about him. Thulsa Doom (who's got a skull for a head, not the face of a movie star) was killed by Kull in Marvel Preview #19, spent thousands of years in Hell, was freed from Hell (still in his skeletal form) in Conan the barbarian annual #12, and was killed again in issue 203. His rather impotent skull (still talking!) was recovered in SSoC #190, but was last seen in SSoC #193 when a god made it so Doom's skull and body could never be reunited again (and he cast them in different time periods just to make sure). Clearly, the Doom in Sonja's comic is not the proper one; it's a spin on James Earl Jones' version… because for some strange reason, many people actually like the Conan movie! ARRGH! ARRRGH! (Excuse me, I have to wipe the foam and spittle that seems to have accumulated at the corners of my mouth. It's most unbecoming!) Haha. I get like that some times, too.
I actually just read those Owlsley Conan stories a few weeks ago, but totally forgot that Thulsa Doom had been trapped in Hell for a thousand years. Those stories are very underrated, in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 15:05:52 GMT -5
I'm okay with Thulsa Doom living for millenia. He had a bargain with the Dark Gods of the Serpent Men that kept him alive for centuries previous to sparring with Kull. Thoth-Ammon invokes Set and is essentially immortal, so why not Thulsa Doom? Because of what comics told us about him. Thulsa Doom (who's got a skull for a head, not the face of a movie star) was killed by Kull in Marvel Preview #19, spent thousands of years in Hell, was freed from Hell (still in his skeletal form) in Conan the barbarian annual #12, and was killed again in issue 203. His rather impotent skull (still talking!) was recovered in SSoC #190, but was last seen in SSoC #193 when a god made it so Doom's skull and body could never be reunited again (and he cast them in different time periods just to make sure). Clearly, the Doom in Sonja's comic is not the proper one; it's a spin on James Earl Jones' version… because for some strange reason, many people actually like the Conan movie! ARRGH! ARRRGH! (Excuse me, I have to wipe the foam and spittle that seems to have accumulated at the corners of my mouth. It's most unbecoming!) But if it is rebranding of Sonja and not using the Marvel continuity, then why is Thulsa Doom beholden to Marvel continuity when someone other than Marvel is using him. It's not REH canon, just the Marvel version and Dynamite isn't the Marvel version. They can draw from whatever they like or make up stuff on their own... -M |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 15:09:10 GMT -5
As for the Conan movie, count me among those who like it, not as a good Conan story, it isn't, but it is a fun 80s S&S flick. And if as Howard said, the Conan stories are nothing more than campfire tales in his estimation, then who cares if a campfire tale gets distorted or exaggerated in one of the tellings. That's kind of what oral tradition does in storytelling, and if the written stories are meant to emulate that tradition...expecting consistency there is setting yourself up for disappointment.
-M
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 3, 2014 15:12:30 GMT -5
Because of what comics told us about him. Thulsa Doom (who's got a skull for a head, not the face of a movie star) was killed by Kull in Marvel Preview #19, spent thousands of years in Hell, was freed from Hell (still in his skeletal form) in Conan the barbarian annual #12, and was killed again in issue 203. His rather impotent skull (still talking!) was recovered in SSoC #190, but was last seen in SSoC #193 when a god made it so Doom's skull and body could never be reunited again (and he cast them in different time periods just to make sure). Clearly, the Doom in Sonja's comic is not the proper one; it's a spin on James Earl Jones' version… because for some strange reason, many people actually like the Conan movie! ARRGH! ARRRGH! (Excuse me, I have to wipe the foam and spittle that seems to have accumulated at the corners of my mouth. It's most unbecoming!) But if it is rebranding of Sonja and not using the Marvel continuity, then why is Thulsa Doom beholden to Marvel continuity when someone other than Marvel is using him. It's not REH canon, just the Marvel version and Dynamite isn't the Marvel version. They can draw from whatever they like or make up stuff on their own... -M Sure, and as I said earlier that is why I have no interest whatsoever in this otherwise successful rebranding. They're planning a Dynamite Sonja/Dark Horse Conan crossover, now… I wonder how that'll work out. (Probably have them act like they know each other without giving too many details, I would assume). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 15:14:56 GMT -5
Not sure, I just dropped the DH Conan and Dynamite Sonja books. I have too much older unread Conan comics that I need to get to to spend my time reading mediocre expensive new versions...but it doesn't get me worked up if they change things, it is what it is. It's only in the modern era that we have come to expect stories not to grow and change and evolve with each successive telling.
-M
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 3, 2014 15:16:16 GMT -5
I prefer the earlier Giffen styler as well, but admit that I haven't seen much if anything of this later Legions run, even online. Just out of curiosity, was this around the same time that the Avengers were also given team windbreakers? I think the Avengers jackets (I'd called them Bomber Jackets, but whatever) were a couple years later. I'm currently reading the Legion stuff a little before this... I'm not a fan of Giffen outside the JLI stuff.. we'l see when I get to the '5 years later' team if I like it  |
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Post by fanboystranger on Dec 3, 2014 15:19:18 GMT -5
But if it is rebranding of Sonja and not using the Marvel continuity, then why is Thulsa Doom beholden to Marvel continuity when someone other than Marvel is using him. It's not REH canon, just the Marvel version and Dynamite isn't the Marvel version. They can draw from whatever they like or make up stuff on their own... -M Sure, and as I said earlier that is why I have no interest whatsoever in this otherwise successful rebranding. They're planning a Dynamite Sonja/Dark Horse Conan crossover, now… I wonder how that'll work out. (Probably have them act like they know each other without giving too many details, I would assume). That tends to be the Dark Horse method for intercompany crossovers. They just throw the chracters into the action without any explanation of their histories as if they always existed in the same universe. That's why it almost always works-- no contrived cosmic explanation (other than Superman/Madman, but that cosmic explanation was a goofy, fun take.) |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 3, 2014 15:26:20 GMT -5
Not sure, I just dropped the DH Conan and Dynamite Sonja books. I have too much older unread Conan comics that I need to get to to spend my time reading mediocre expensive new versions...but it doesn't get me worked up if they change things, it is what it is. It's only in the modern era that we have come to expect stories not to grow and change and evolve with each successive telling. I beg to differ. I do not mind the retelling of Conan's life as told by Dark Horse, because it respects the source material even if it is different from Marvel's stuff; I even enjoyed the early years of the title tremendously. Retellings, especially imaginative ones, can be a lot of fun and have been around since ancient Greece (at least). What I object to as a fan is the exploitation a classic story (or concept) in a way that shows little interest beyond the marketability of a name (or of a steel bikini). I'm not saying Dynamite doesn't have the right to publish stories about a new Red Sonja that's neither Marvel's nor is set in a proper Howardian universe; I'm saying that I have no interest in it. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202 
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Post by Confessor on Dec 4, 2014 7:08:36 GMT -5
Red Sonja is a character whose rebranding seems to have been very successful. According to Wikipedia, she's not the original Sonja (a concept I have no problem with, since obviously her current publisher couldn't use the Marvel Conan continuity) and has gone back to her iron bikini look. Oh really? I had no idea about that. The 2007 Spider-Man/Red Sonja mini-series (which was jointly published by Marvel and Dynamite Entertainment) was a direct sequel to the events of Marvel Team-Up #79, with Spidey clearly recognising Sonja from their earlier encounter. Of course, in both instances, it was Mary Jane having been transformed into Red Sonja by magic, rather than Sonja herself teaming up with the wall-crawler, so I guess that explains it. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 4, 2014 8:46:06 GMT -5
No, RR means that Howard's original Red Sonya (or Sonia, I forget which) was a character from his historical fiction rather than a contemporary of Conan's. Roy Thomas and Barry Smith essentially rebranded her when he adapted "Shadow of the Vulture" for the Conan the Barbarian comic.
Cei-U!
I summon the facts, Jack!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 10:32:18 GMT -5
Actually, the Red Sonja currently appearing from Dynamite is a different character. They did a storyline where Sonja died, and now we're following a descendant/reincarnation. Looks the same and all, but this Sonja isn't bound by that stupid can't-sleep-with-a-guy-unless-he-beats-her-in-a-fight thing. This Sonja is sexually aggressive, drinks and brawls.
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