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Post by jtrw2024 on Sept 15, 2024 14:26:29 GMT -5
Needless to say, Marie Severin's version was undeniably inferior; Spider-Man's body looks similar to someone close to tipping while trying to catch a falling object, and not actually interacting with the Rhino. Soon, Marie will be replaced on the reprint cover duty by Sal and John Buscema and the far more understandable choice in the talents of Gil Kane. I was reading some old issues of Not Brand Echh recently which contain a lot of stories drawn by Marie Severin. I really like her style on those, especially her interpretation of Spider-man. Obviously the approach she uses on humour stories would be different from more serious, or action oriented comics, but I can see a little of that style on the way the Rhino is drawn on that Marvel Tales cover. I've seen Marie drawn Spider-man stories before, but I would have liked to see her Not Brand Echh used for a regular Spidey issue too. On a related note, Marvel also needs to get around to releasing a TPB of that Spider-man/Hulk toilet paper story she drew!
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rich
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Post by rich on Sept 15, 2024 15:09:34 GMT -5
I'd quite enjoy returning to look at Ditko/Romita era Spidey again- I read all of the stories in UK reprints sometime between 1989-1992, and enjoyed them more than the current stuff of the time, despite the dated look. The dialogue was great, and art was fun.
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Post by jtrw2024 on Sept 15, 2024 18:31:38 GMT -5
I'd quite enjoy returning to look at Ditko/Romita era Spidey again- I read all of the stories in UK reprints sometime between 1989-1992, and enjoyed them more than the current stuff of the time, despite the dated look. The dialogue was great, and art was fun. I've got a few favourite Spider-man runs, but the earlier stories are definitely at the top of my list!
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Post by jtrw2024 on Sept 15, 2024 19:03:00 GMT -5
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 43 (reprinted in Marvel Tales 183) “Rhino on the Rampage!” Credits (as they appear in the comic): Stan (The Man) Lee, Writer John (Ring-a-ding) Romita, Artist Artie (Stout-hearted) Simek, Letterer Andy (Ain’t He Dandy)Yanchus, Colorist Plot Synopsis: The Rhino Returns! But who cares? MJ is here! Comments: The Rhino is a pretty tough character. Even though Spider-man defeated him once a couple issues back, his return was inevitable, as last issue’s brief appearance showed how much difficulty the authorities were having keeping him sedated and locked up. The Rhino is already loose and free within the first few panels and ready to wreck the city as part of his brilliant plan to get revenge on Spider-man. Peter Parker hasn’t really been thinking about the Rhino much since the villain’s first appearance, since he’s had other stuff to deal with. Foremost on his mind is a certain redhead. Last issue ended with that iconic final panel which marked the first real appearance of Mary Jane Watson! John Romita’s depiction of Spider-man and his cast of characters will influence the way they look for a long time. Some of these characters are still developing and haven’t necessarily arrived at their iconic looks, but Mary Jane’s classic appearance and personality gets established right away. This issue has appearances from all the usual supporting characters. Aunt May and Anna Watson, of course are there with Peter and Mary Jane. There are some scenes at the Daily Bugle with J. Jonah Jameson, Betty, Ned and Foswell. Betty and Ned's engagement becomes official this issue, with a nice new ring that she shows off at the office. Even Daredevil in his civilian identity as Matt Murdock, makes a cameo, along with Foggy Nelson as the Rhino’s legal representatives. Learning that the Rhino is smashing up the city, Peter finds he doesn’t have to make up any of his usual excuses to get away in order to go after him. Future stories would reveal that Mary Jane knew Peter’s secret all along, and I think that fits perfectly with stories like this one. Obviously that wasn’t the original intention at the time, but I like how that particular bit of retroactive continuity contributes to Spidey’s history. For the benefit of the readers, the Rhino recalls his origins. It’s not the most creative origin story, but it serves its purpose. The battle between Spider-man and the Rhino in the middle of the street isn’t all that different from their first confrontation a couple issues back, except this time Spidey takes more of a beating and gets a helping hand from one of New York’s finest. All throughout these scenes, Mary Jane manages to maintain the same carefree attitude she displayed back in the earlier pages at Aunt Anna’s home. I think she only changed her expression once when the TV news of the Rhino’s escape interrupted her music program. Even when the rest of the onlookers appear frightened, Mary Jane is just standing there on the street, smiling and enjoying the show. The Rhino, believing he’s finished Spider-man for good, stomps off to resume his original mission to kidnap John Jameson. At least Peter manages to get some newsworthy photos this time around, and discovers a clue which will help him the next time he fights the Rhino. After dropping Mary Jane at her apartment, Peter again wonders about getting a place of his own. A nice pay cheque from Jonah for this latest set of photos puts Peter one step closer to making that dream a reality. Mary Jane’s classic line has been referenced many times over the years, and Stan Lee pays homage to it in this very issue. Somehow, it doesn’t seem the same coming from Jameson though! Dr. Curtis Connors makes another appearance in these pages. He first appeared way back in Amazing Spider-man 6 as the Lizard, and then again only as Connors in issue 32-33. So far he’s appeared more often as Connors, than he has as the Lizard who has made only one appearance up until now, (but unfortunately that won’t last too much longer). . By analyzing a piece of the Rhino’s costume which came loose during the earlier battle, Spider-man and Dr. Connors manage to develop a special gizmo to use with Spidey’s webbing. When the Rhino goes after John Jameson at the Hospital where he is recovering from last issue’s ordeal, Spider-man is there waiting. The special webbing, causes the Rhino’s armoured-hide to melt away leaving him exposed and vulnerable to a knockout spider-punch! . The Rhino makes his next appearance not too long after in the pages of The Incredible Hulk, and will become a part of that character’s recurring rogues’ gallery. Despite being the first villain to be introduced in Amazing Spider-man during John Romita’s run, and appearing for three issues in a row, he won’t fight Spidey again for about a decade-and-a-half (not counting other media, alternate continuities, or dream sequences and stuff like that). The Rhino remains a major Spider-man villain who has appeared in many comics, and other media, and I think he’s just as good as any of the foes introduced during the Ditko period. The final page of this issue wasn’t as significant as last month’s but there sure is a lot going on in these panels. An appearance from Flash, Gwen and Harry introduces a new development for a long time cast member. Flash has received his draft notice, a sub-plot which will develop some more in future issues and addresses a topic which was definitely on the minds of many readers at the time. Returning home, Peter discovers that once more Aunt May’s health problems are a cause for concern. While Peter’s emotions throughout this story have run a gamut from excitement to despair, one last appearance by Mary Jane shows her with the same smiling face that greeted him in last issue’s iconic final panel. As if Peter didn’t have enough concerns, this story ends with a foreboding caption of what comes next Notable differences in the reprint: There’s no letters page this issue, not even Post Office of the Past. The Bullpen Bulletins page which appeared in the original ASM 43 is included at the end though. Personal anecdotes: This is another one of those issues that I never got around to reading for a while. I wasn’t paying attention when it was reprinted in Marvel Tales in the mid 80s, and never picked up the back issue. Like many of the issues from the John Romita era, I wouldn’t read it until it was reprinted in black-and-white as part of the Essential Spider-man collections. I’ve read coloured versions of it before, but once again, this was the first time reading this issue of Marvel Tales
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Sept 15, 2024 23:18:11 GMT -5
Love these early Romita issues. I missed a few of the last Ditko Marvel Tales but picked it back up with the first Romita and got every subsequent issue until missing the one reprinting #49 (which I made up for by getting an actual copy of #49 as a gift, which I posted in a Top Shelf thread a while back). These issues made me a life-long fan of the Rhino. Being a big classic Hulk fan as well, I followed him over to that book (more accurately, Marvel Super Heroes, which reprinted the Hulk), where he became a regular foe. And speaking of Marie Severin, she was the regular artist on the Hulk when Rhino first appeared there. She is one of my all-time fave Hulk artists and she also did great work on Sub Mariner and Dr. Strange (she should've been given the initial Defenders assignment!), in addition to Not Brand Echh
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Post by jtrw2024 on Sept 16, 2024 5:11:25 GMT -5
And speaking of Marie Severin, she was the regular artist on the Hulk when Rhino first appeared there. She is one of my all-time fave Hulk artists and she also did great work on Sub Mariner and Dr. Strange (she should've been given the initial Defenders assignment!), in addition to Not Brand Echh I've always liked her style and I agree, she would have been a good fit for Defenders now that you mentioned it. I would have liked to seen more of her work on mainstream Marvel heroes in general!
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rich
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Post by rich on Sept 16, 2024 5:20:30 GMT -5
I'd quite enjoy returning to look at Ditko/Romita era Spidey again- I read all of the stories in UK reprints sometime between 1989-1992, and enjoyed them more than the current stuff of the time, despite the dated look. The dialogue was great, and art was fun. I've got a few favourite Spider-man runs, but the earlier stories are definitely at the top of my list! Which other runs have been favourites of yours? Aside from the Lee/Ditko/Romita years? For me, I really enjoyed the ASM ~185-250 era. When I was younger I also loved the McFarlane ASM comics (but even as a child I didn't enjoy it when he wrote his own Spiderman comic... though I did enjoy early Spawn).
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rich
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Post by rich on Sept 16, 2024 5:23:30 GMT -5
It's always remarkable looking back at early Lee comics how text heavy they were!
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Post by jtrw2024 on Sept 16, 2024 5:47:30 GMT -5
I've got a few favourite Spider-man runs, but the earlier stories are definitely at the top of my list! Which other runs have been favourites of yours? Aside from the Lee/Ditko/Romita years? For me, I really enjoyed the ASM ~185-250 era. When I was younger I also loved the McFarlane ASM comics (but even as a child I didn't enjoy it when he wrote his own Spiderman comic... though I did enjoy early Spawn). I think the Amazing Spider-man is actually pretty good right up until (and even past) 200. There's good stuff throughout the 80s, but a lot of forgettable stuff too. I've read it all, but my main interests throughout those years would be the significant stuff like the Alien costume, Black Cat relationship and Hobgoblin mystery, Sin-Eater, then the wedding to MJ and Kraven's Last Hunt and Venom, though there are definitely other stories from that period which I like too. I started collecting all the Spider-man titles regularly around issue 300 but I had already read a lot of Lee/Ditko/Romita and other runs. Todd McFarlane was definitely a favourite of mine, but I prefer his earlier ASM art, to his later stuff when he started writing (I still like it, and, like you, enjoyed early Spawn as well). I actually enjoyed Spider-man right through the 90s. I know a lot of people don't like the 90s Clone saga, and I understand their reasons, but I always enjoyed it. My interest probably held well enough past the 90s, through most of JMS' run, and died down after One More Day. Other than the most recent issues which I've got piling up waiting to be read, I've read everything, and I'm still following Spider-man, and like a lot of runs after One More Day. Superior Spider-man shouldn't have worked, but it does. Spider-verse was good, but I think it's been revisited and done to death. There's also too many supporting characters with super-powers and their own spin-off titles. I haven't really enjoyed the most recent run, but I'm always optimistic that the next one will be better I'm not sure if I have any particular favourites from Marvel Team-up, Spectacular Spider-man or the other related titles, that I can name off the top of my head, but I do like a lot of it. Spidey Super Stories was fun too. I don't really like Ultimate Spider-man as much as most people, but that may be due to personal bias, since I think the original stories work good enough as they are.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 16, 2024 6:09:57 GMT -5
It's always remarkable looking back at early Lee comics how text heavy they were! I like Stan Lee's dialogue a lot, but he definitely had a tendency to overwrite on occasion -- especially during fight scenes, when it's already quite clear what is happening from the art alone. That said, on a page like the one you quoted above, I think the dialogue is definitely doing the heavy lifting narratively and rightly so, as the art on its own doesn't impart much information. '60s comics generally where quite dense dialogue-wise, but I don't really mind that: you certainly get your money's worth from each issue.
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rich
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Post by rich on Sept 16, 2024 6:18:10 GMT -5
It's always remarkable looking back at early Lee comics how text heavy they were! I like Stan Lee's dialogue a lot, but he definitely had a tendency to overwrite on occasion -- especially during fight scenes, when it's already quite clear what is happening from the art alone. That said, on a page like the one you quoted above, I think the dialogue is definitely doing the heavy lifting narratively and rightly so, as the art on its own doesn't impart much information. '60s comics generally where quite dense dialogue-wise, but I don't really mind that: you certainly get your money's worth from each issue. I agree- I enjoyed Stan Lee's dialogue even as a kid, and indeed the art was drawn in full knowledge that a lot of dialogue would need to be added. You got a LOT of story for your money back in the day!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 16, 2024 6:22:08 GMT -5
I think the Amazing Spider-man is actually pretty good right up until (and even past) 200. I think they could've stopped publishing Spider-Man comics after issue #200. Those first two-hundred-and-one issues -- starting with Peter getting bitten by the radioactive spider and ending with the reappearance of the burglar who killed Uncle Ben and with Aunt May overcoming her fear of Spider-Man -- tell one of the best coming-of-age stories in American fiction. Of course, ending the story there would've robbed us of a lot of great comics, but nevertheless, I think the story told between Amazing Fantasy #15 and Amazing Spider-Man #200 is a coming-of-age tale on a par with the likes of Little Women or The Graduate.
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Post by jtrw2024 on Sept 16, 2024 6:27:36 GMT -5
I think the Amazing Spider-man is actually pretty good right up until (and even past) 200. I think they could've stopped publishing Spider-Man comics after issue #200. Those first two-hundred-and-one issues -- starting with Peter getting bitten by the radioactive spider and ending with the reappearance of the burglar who killed Uncle Ben and with Aunt May overcoming her fear of Spider-Man -- tell one of the best coming-of-age stories in American fiction. Of course, ending the story there would've robbed us of a lot of great comics, but nevertheless, I think the story told between Amazing Fantasy #15 and Amazing Spider-Man #200 is a coming-of-age tale on a par with the likes of Little Women or The Graduate. If they were going to stop publishing Spider-man, then I agree, ASM 200 would be the place to do it! Chances are though, if there weren't any Spider-man comics on the shelf after that, for me to find as a kid, I may not have ever gotten interested in the character, and then where would my life be?
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rich
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Post by rich on Sept 16, 2024 6:31:42 GMT -5
I started collecting all the Spider-man titles regularly around issue 300 but I had already read a lot of Lee/Ditko/Romita and other runs. Todd McFarlane was definitely a favourite of mine, but I prefer his earlier ASM art, to his later stuff when he started writing (I still like it, and, like you, enjoyed early Spawn as well). I actually enjoyed Spider-man right through the 90s. I know a lot of people don't like the 90s Clone saga, and I understand their reasons, but I always enjoyed it. My interest probably held well enough past the 90s, through most of JMS' run, and died down after One More Day. Other than the most recent issues which I've got piling up waiting to be read, I've read everything, and I'm still following Spider-man, and like a lot of runs after One More Day. Superior Spider-man shouldn't have worked, but it does. Spider-verse was good, but I think it's been revisited and done to death. There's also too many supporting characters with super-powers and their own spin-off titles. I haven't really enjoyed the most recent run, but I'm always optimistic that the next one will be better I'm not sure if I have any particular favourites from Marvel Team-up, Spectacular Spider-man or the other related titles, that I can name off the top of my head, but I do like a lot of it. Spidey Super Stories was fun too. I don't really like Ultimate Spider-man as much as most people, but that may be due to personal bias, since I think the original stories work good enough as they are. I found a lot of Spiderman comics hard to get enthusiastic about after 1991 1989- which is a pity considering how many I bought between then and 2001 when I dropped all monthly comics! I'd drop in and out of Spiderman comics, and generally found them little more than OK. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single run I'd recommend, and only a couple of single issues. As a child reading Michelinie and McFarlane's ASM it felt very modern, while still being 'classic Spidey'. It was great! I dropped the book like a hot potato once Erik Larsen took over art chores, though. I couldn't stand his art as a child or as an adult. The Spectacular run that many people recommend is #178-203, by J.M. DeMatteis and Sal Buscema. A lot (all?) of those comics were collected in a British re-print series I used to buy, and they were a bit dark for me at the time. I haven't re-read them. For me, Spectacular #43-59 were more up my alley. Charming Roger Stern stories, with some enjoyable art.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 16, 2024 7:09:05 GMT -5
A favourite, but very underrated, run for me was the Bill Mantlo era of Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man from the early '80s, with the Ed Hannigan/Al Milgrom/Jim Mooney team on art chores.
I really love that era of that title. There was the Cloak & Dagger/Silvermane saga happening, Spidey and Black Cat's romance was in full bloom, Felicia got bad luck superpowers from the Kingpin behind Spidey's back, plus the whole Jean DeWolff and Debrah Whitman things were in the background.
To be honest, I feel as if PP:TSSM was often a better and more consistent read than Amazing Spider-Man during this period -- not that ASM was really any slouch either, since the original Hobgoblin saga was raging across its pages at that time. But yeah, PP:TSSM was really, really good during this period and often got first dibs on my pocket money.
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