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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 19, 2024 21:26:03 GMT -5
RE: Coruscant and Return of the Jedi. There is an even earlier idea of the Imperial capital, in the early drafts of Star Wars. Alderaan was the name used for the planet and there was a floating prison, above the capital city, which is where Deak Starkiller is held, necessitating the rescue mission. You are quite correct, but it wasn't an entire planet that was an Imperial home world: it was just a city on the planet Alderaan. As you rightly say, this Imperial City became the Death Star in subsequent drafts of the first Star Wars movie, while the floating city aspect was re-used for Cloud City. The concept of an entire Imperial home world planet was first originated during early versions of the RotJ script. The basic concept of a city planet had already appeared, in the form of Trantor, in Isaac Asimov's Foundation Series, which was a big influence on the conceptualization of The Empire. Also, within Dune, the Harkonen seat, Geidi Prime, was also a city planet. That's interesting. I know of most of Dune's influences on SW, but hadn't realised that about Geidi Prime being a city planet. I'm totally unfamiliar with Asimov's Foundation series, I'm afraid. It's worth noting though that the idea of the entire planet of Coruscant being a city originated with author Timothy Zahn in Heir to the Empire, not with George Lucas. Lucas's Imperial Capital planet, Had Abbadon, was not supposed to be covered in one huge city. Indeed, the Emperor's castle on Had Abbadon was surrounded by a lake of lava, which is a concept that was eventually reused for the planet Mustafar in Revenge of the Sith and Vader's Fortress in Rogue One. Also appearing in 1967 was the Valerian series, in Pilote, in which the center of the Terran Empire is the city-planet, known as the Galaxity. It was where Valerian was born and HQ of the Spacio-Temporal Service, for which Valerian (and Laureline, when she leaves her time period) works. You can do a whole feature on all of the ideas and images that were swiped from Valerian, in both Star Wars and other works. Creator Jean-Claude Mezieres was more than aware of the "theft".... ![](https://i.postimg.cc/nccndyh5/val.jpg) Allegedly, one of the conceptual designers for the Prequels kept an entire set of Valerian albums beside his drawing table and you can see far more similarities in those than even the original trilogy. I've heard the whole " Star Wars swiped Valerian" accusations before and I think they are basically bullsh*t. The so called "swipes" are pretty tenuous to my eyes and also often feature ideas that have appeared in a number of other sci-fi stories prior to Valerian. There was even a whole info-graphic going around on the internet about it some years back, showing examples of these alledged swipes, but like I say, it all seemed pretty tenuous to me. Besides, Lucas was never particularly shy about naming his influences when it came to Star Wars, be it Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress, the Buster Crabbe Flash Gordon serials, the EC sci-fi comics, or Dune. I've never seen any real evidence that anyone associated with the look of the original trilogy, such as Lucas, Ralph MacQuarrie, or John Dykstra, was a fan of Valerian or even aware of those comics. Did the prequels' concept artist Doug Chiang or someone working for him have a stack of Valerian books under his desk to regularly swipe from? I've never heard about that or seen any evidence to support such an accusation. Frankly, it sounds like something someone on the internet made up. Mezieres, himself, felt that Lucas had borrowed ideas from his work, hence the cartoon and he speaks, briefly, of that, in an interview that was included with The Fifth Element DVD, where he served as a conceptual designer. Talk of similarities to Valerian predate the internet, in some circles, but definitely got magnified by the internet. That said, Valerian began in 1967 and was hugely popular and exported to North America, in untranslated form. In the late 60s, several European works were imported and some even got translations, like Barbarella. San Francisco, especially, was a hotbed for a lot of alternate comics material, both from the Underground scene and the art world. Lucas, himself, has admitted to combing through both comics and prose sci-fi and fantasy, looking for inspiration. Therefore, I think it is entirely within the realm of possibility that he saw at least one or two of the earliest stories and might have had images or ideas in the back of his head, even if he did not directly refer to them. Given the cross pollination of ideas that went on with French film, while he was at USC, I can see it extending to French comics, especially since there was an overlap between French directors and Franco-Belgian comics. Lucas has said he combed through prose sci-fi and fantasy and comics, though most of the specifics have come from others, with Lucas confirming some of that later. he was aware of Howard Chaykin's Cody Starbuck, when it came time to do the movie adaptation, at Marvel. Whether or not he took inspiration from Cody Starbuck's look, I don't know; but, it has a strong resemblance to Han Solo's (though they both have a resemblance to costuming in Flash Gordon and US cavalry uniforms of the late 1800s, as seen in westerns). The Doug Chiang story I would put down to the internet, though if he really is that big of a fan of the series, it is not unreasonable to think he took some visual cues from it, which he then further developed or at least used as a signpost to guide him to what he wanted to achieve.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 19, 2024 22:18:42 GMT -5
Trantor is most definitely a good example... but that was a GOOD Empire (mostly). I love the Valerian pin up... though I didn't get that far in reading them when Hoopla was carrying Cinebook (I was also reading Lucky Luke and Thorgal) I never really made that connection but it makes sense. That said, Valerian felt more like James Bond in space than anything Star Wars related. There's also an extent where there are only so many variations you can have of a city skyline. Supposedly, one of Lucas' concepts for the Imperial capital involved towering buildings, with aerial vehicles moving between them, inspired by scenes in Metropolis. Fritz Lang's inspiration for the look of Metropolis came from a visit to New York City and seeing the skyline, from a ship, coming into port. Metropolis was a big influence on sci-fi illustrators of the era, as well as matching the thinking of futurists, of the period. Le Corbusier wrote a whole book about urban planning and buildings and you have the whole International movement, in architecture, which can be seen in his work and several other architects and designers of the period, including the Bauhaus, in Germany, architecture in London and other parts of the UK, and in later architects, like Saarinen, Neutra, Mies Van der Roe and others. One of the things that gets brought up is a costume that Laureline wears in one album (I think it was Welcome to Alflolol) and Leia's slave girl costume, but I have seen Frazetta designs that also looked similar and costumes from sword & sandal epics, so you could take tour pick where that idea originated. The similarities of Valerian's ship and the Millennium Falcon are another; but, you could just point to sci-fi spaceship concepts, post WW2 for that. Empire of a Thousand Planets is one of the main ones that gets cited, but the story is not that similar and the scarred figure, who is revealed when he removes his helmet, is not unique to that work.. Darth Vader's armor developed over time, but one of Lucas' inspirations was The Lightning, the villain from the Republic serial Fighting Devil Dogs...... ![](https://i.postimg.cc/dQgR0K5m/fdd.jpg) It morphed as development progressed, incorporating samurai armor elements and German stahlhelms. In the earlier drafts, Darth Vader was the name of a sadistic, but cowardly Imperial general, who tortures Deak Starkiller (at least, I think it was Deak). There were also the Knights of the Sith, plural, led by Prince Valorum. There are early armor designs that are attributed to vader, by fans, that were actually for Valorum. The Sith Knights wore black space armor and the early drafts had them enter the Rebel ship (carrying Deak Starkiller) from the void of space, with the armor being pressure suits, like an astronaut. They cut their way into the hull and board, then battle with the crew. There is an image of what looks like Darth Vader fighting someone in scuba gear, which is Deak, in breathing gear, using his own "laser sword". Later, in the story, Valorum witnesses Vader committing torture, out of sadistic pleasure and ends up turning on the Empire because of their lack of honor. Some of that is present in Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress, where Toshiro Mifune confronts a former subordinate, for siding with the enemy forces. That confrontation, leading to battling on horseback, with lances, informed the later battle between Vader and Obi-Wan. Similarly, the concepts of the Jedi changed a bit in drafts and they reflect a blending of influences. One of them was EE Smith's Lensman Series. The book the Galactic Patrol has a section that is beat for beat the same as the attack on the Tantive IV. The hero, Kim Kinnison, is a new Lensman. The Galactic Patrol is an intergalactic peace force, with the Lensmen being special agents, who have a lends, bonded to their hands, which give them some telepathic abilities and which magnffy their physical abilities. Only a select few become Lensmen and even fewer become Grey Lensmen, the highest rank. That influenced the ideas of the Jedi as peace keepers and some of the more militaristic aspects, as do the martial aspects of the samurai and the code of bushido. The more spiritual style reflects the interest in Zen buddhism, which was prominent in the counter-culture, in Lucas' college days and soon after. That said, if you look at Star Wars, without anything that followed, Ben Kenobis robes are just the local desert attire: loose fitting, designed to protect against the sun, and hard wearing. Just like bedouin tribes. It is only later, when we see Ben, Anakin and Yoda together, all dressed like Ben, does it become a Jedi's robe. Even in the Marvel comics, there is a story where ben, in his younger days, is in a uniform (either black or midnight blue), suggesting that what he wore later was not a sign of being a Jedi. When Luke appears in Return of the Jedi, he is not dressed in those same kind of robes; he wears a black uniform, which reflects that earlier image of Ben, from the flashback story, at Marvel. The idea of robes doesn't come up until the ending celebration and I think it was just a visual way to link the three and that was then taken as the Jedi look, for the prequels. The epic space battles of the Lensman Saga (influenced by naval battles, I am sure) influenced how those were conceptualized, in Star Wars. You had whole planets destroyed, which matches with the Death Star destroying Alderaan. You could link that to the sheer destructive force of a naval bombardment, in preparation for amphibious landings. Edward Elmer Smith was the granddaddy of space opera, creating both the Skylark series and the Lensman Saga, both of which were hugely influential. Lucas pulled a lot of elements from those works and other space opera and they in turn influenced things like Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers, which also inspired him. One of the reasons he approached Leigh Brackett, to write the script for Empire, was her planetary romances, in the pulp magazines. At the time, he didn't realize that she had co-written the scripts for The Big Sleep and Rio Bravo, thinking that was just a coincidence of names. He didn't find out until he talked to her about writing the screenplay, asking if she had written any screenplays, when she listed her credits. He replied, "You're THAT Leigh Brackett?" He though it was a man, with a similar name. That's another point in how things evolved. In Brackett's first draft for Star Wars II, as it was titled, Luke meets the ghost of his father on Dagobah and Ben Kenobi is only a minor element. Darth Vader is treated as a separate character. Brackett was suffering from cancer and her health got worse and she was unable to work on a second draft. Lucas had issues with her draft and ended up bringing Lawrence Kasdan in to rewrite it, with himself. They had problems with the parallel stories of Han and Leia in one place and Luke in another and they eventually hit upon the idea of combining Darth Vader and Luke's father into one character. Suddenly, the narrative possibilities stated falling into place. Father Skywalker's role got shifted to Ben, expanding his part and then you get a surprise that takes you into the next film. That change is where things turned from a sequel to a popular movie into a narrative saga. Everything that contradicts Star wars originates in that change and the decisions from then on. By the Prequels, you now have Lucas trying to reconcile some of those contradictions, while also tapping discarded scripts for ideas, leading to the similar plots and story structure.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 19, 2024 22:28:28 GMT -5
ps a major inspiration in the conceptualization of massive cities was the 1929 book by Hugh Ferris, The Metropolis of Tomorrow.... ![](https://i.postimg.cc/6QgWszhc/mot.jpg) Inside, Ferris, an architect and illustrator, laid out theories of massive structures, including elements like streets and parks, plus elements like ziggaraut-style upper levels, to allow in more light. Here is an example...... ![](https://i.postimg.cc/zv3FLzh8/mot2.jpg) Ferris had streets passing through buildings, with walkways and elevated streets connecting upper levels. He had bridge structures that incorporated apartment buildings into the support structures, allowing them to add further function. It had a big influence on movie designers, including Anton Furst and the Batman films.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 19, 2024 22:48:28 GMT -5
I've always felt Lensman was more Green Lantern than Star Wars, but I can see it. Just goes to show how concepts build over time to be tropes and then get spun in new ways. Very interesting stuff!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 19, 2024 23:02:58 GMT -5
Dark Empire #4 Cover dated : April 1992 (though likely this was a misprinty and should be June 1992) Issue title : Book 4: Showdown on the Smuggler's Moon Script: Tom Veitch Artwork: Cam Kennedy Letters: Todd Klein Cover art Dave Dorman Overall rating: 6 of 10 Summary: To no one surprise, one of Han's 'friends' sold him out, but they run for it and Salla save the day. I guess those parts weren't all that important after all. Meanwhile, the battle for Mon Cala is still going... based on the fact that the Star Destroyer is still being eaten by the World Devastator, I guess it's just a few minutes after last issue. The cavalry arrives for the rebels.. their new 'E-wings' (which were mentioned last issue, they just didn't excite me). One from 'Knave Squadron' (UGH), crashes in just the right spot and scrambles the World Devastators, I guess they have a weak spot just like the death star.. or do they? Back to Byss, and Slave II gets chopped in half by the planetary shield while the good guys land. Leia convinces Han to let her pilot the Falcon and they find Luke. It goes about how you would expect. He said he's doing it for the good of the Galaxy, but of course he's really pretty evil. The Emperor turns up for some monologuing and knocks Leia out with force Lightning when she attacks from behind. (she refused to attack Luke). Han is ready to kill his former friend an an unconscious Leia is taken away. Things look bad for our heroes... to be continued! My View: : I'm not sure if its worse of its because I focused on it more because Confessor point it out, but the dialogue here definitely veers on and of target quite a bit. Some times Han's lines are spot on, sometimes they are cringey. Boba Fett's is all bad. Luke has these two giant guys guarding him.. Vader never needed guards, or are they protecting the Emperor from him? There is a tiny bit of Leia with a lightsaber action, but not nearly enough before the Emperor disposes of it. (If I recall there is more coming). Han made a big thing of letting Leia pilot the Falcon, then just a couple pages later the plan was to have Salla hide it somewhere for later. So the ex gets the keys, but not the wife? Not cool, Han, not cool. Along those lines, he also was just betrayed by and old friend, why did he trust the other two so completely? Not only not in character, but kinda dumb. The weird mood coloring is starting to annoy me 4 issues in, but sometimes it just works... this is just an amazing panel: Continuity Notes : They go with the 'I was rather indigestible' for how Fett got out of the Sarlacc. He looks great on the cover, but inside the armor is all wrong.. he looks almost feminine. Never mind that why is he working with Dengar? What happened to Bossk? IG-88 is on the cover, but doesn't appear in the story at all. There IS a 3rd person chasing Han and Leia, but it's not clear if that's an unnamed helper or Mako (I think the latter but there's no good shot. It seems like Slave II is literally cut in half by the planetary shield, but the two bounty hunters are fine enough to snipe at each other? So odd. The back matter is about the history of light sabers, and it really neat... clearly laying the groundwork for Tales of the Jedi. Here is says Jedi have been around for 25000 years (that's a LONG time) and MUCH older than I think the current continuity calls for. No Kyber Crystals here... it says the blades are focused through a series of jewels that can even be man made... quite different from the current Disney-fied lore where the crystals are sort of alive-ish. It does mention the first light sabers needed crystals from a particular planet before they came up with the tech to make their own, but not Jeddha and they don't have a special name. There is also a couple pages about what the Dark side is.. nothing too exciting, though its quite funny that it says the Emperor is writing a 'Dark Side Compendium'.. he's finished two volumes so far. That is very different from the current 'Rule of Two' and all the secrecy. The letters were a whole lot different this issue: One of the letters ask how the comic relates to Heir to the Empire, both worried the rest of the trilogy will be spoiled and wanting to see the characters from there. Kesel says people are managing continuity so it doesn't conflict but any connection will be minor. She also confirms Dark Empire takes place a year after Heir to the Empire. Another letter asks what the twins names are, and the answer is an angry one. She says 'they'll be named in the novels, but isn't Leia being active better?' There was a negative letter (to which she answered 'you can't please everyone') and another letter asking about how this and Heir to the Empire could co-exist which got no answer. One of the positive ones dissed the Marvel books, too.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 20, 2024 4:36:43 GMT -5
One of the things that gets brought up is a costume that Laureline wears in one album (I think it was Welcome to Alflolol) and Leia's slave girl costume, but I have seen Frazetta designs that also looked similar and costumes from sword & sandal epics, so you could take tour pick where that idea originated. Back in 1983, when ROTJ came out, both Lucas and Carrie Fisher spoke in the press about Raquel Welch's fur bikini from One Million Years B.C. being an inspiration for Leia's slave girl outfit. That's not something that I've seen repeated much in the four decades since, but that was definitely what they were saying while they were on the media rounds to promote ROTJ. That said, if you look at Star Wars, without anything that followed, Ben Kenobis robes are just the local desert attire: loose fitting, designed to protect against the sun, and hard wearing. Just like bedouin tribes. It is only later, when we see Ben, Anakin and Yoda together, all dressed like Ben, does it become a Jedi's robe. Even in the Marvel comics, there is a story where ben, in his younger days, is in a uniform (either black or midnight blue), suggesting that what he wore later was not a sign of being a Jedi. When Luke appears in Return of the Jedi, he is not dressed in those same kind of robes; he wears a black uniform, which reflects that earlier image of Ben, from the flashback story, at Marvel. The idea of robes doesn't come up until the ending celebration and I think it was just a visual way to link the three and that was then taken as the Jedi look, for the prequels. Absolutely spot on. I was actually having a conversation about this with a friend just the other day. Old Ben from beyond the Dune Sea was simply wearing the garb of a desert hermit in the first Star Wars film, which, as you say, was very similar to the attire that other residents of Tatooine wore. The hilarious thing about these bedouin-style clothes morphing into the official Jedi robes over subsequent films is that, when you watch Star Wars now, even Uncle Owen is dressed in Jedi robes! ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png) ![](https://i.postimg.cc/L6qb90Zh/Owen-Luke.webp)
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 20, 2024 6:08:35 GMT -5
Dark Empire #4 ![](https://i.imgur.com/ZPHrTr8.jpeg) That's a great cover image by Dave Dorman -- probably his best of the whole series. Meanwhile, the battle for Mon Cala is still going... based on the fact that the Star Destroyer is still being eaten by the World Devastator, I guess it's just a few minutes after last issue. The cavalry arrives for the rebels.. their new 'E-wings' (which were mentioned last issue, they just didn't excite me). One from 'Knave Squadron' (UGH), crashes in just the right spot and scrambles the World Devastators, I guess they have a weak spot just like the death star.. or do they? This was Luke's doing, right? Leia has a vison of him guiding the Imperial fleet with the Force a few pages before and, as Lando says, it looks as if the person in charge of that World Devastator wanted to lose. I think Luke guided the crippled E-Wing fighter into crashing into a strategically significant part of the World Devastator using the Force. Back to Byss, and Slave II gets chopped in half by the planetary shield while the good guys land. Slave II is such a crappy ship design. Urghh! I'm not sure if its worse of its because I focused on it more because Confessor point it out, but the dialogue here definitely veers on and of target quite a bit. Some times Han's lines are spot on, sometimes they are cringey. Boba Fett's is all bad. Agreed. Something else I noticed was that, in the scene when Han and Leia are being chased through the streets of Nar Shaddaa by Boba Fett and Dengar, Solo and the Princess's dialogue is sometimes interchangeable, to the point where, when the characters are viewed from a distance in Kennedy's artwork, it's hard to tell which character is saying what. Other times, Vietch seems to get the "character" of each person's dialogue spot on, but it's definitely uneven. As an aside, during the pursuit through the streets of Nar Shaddaa, Kennedy seems to be really drawing a lot on his years of depicting Mega City One from the Judge Dredd comics. Luke has these two giant guys guarding him. These towering bodyguards are based on artist Nilo Rodis-Jamero's unused concept art for the Emperor's Royal Guards from ROTJ. ![](https://i.postimg.cc/hvSR3FD2/D4-YDi16-Xs-AEXohk.jpg) Han made a big thing of letting Leia pilot the Falcon, then just a couple pages later the plan was to have Salla hide it somewhere for later. So the ex gets the keys, but not the wife? Not cool, Han, not cool. Yeah, I thought that was weird too. The weird mood coloring is starting to annoy me 4 issues in, but sometimes it just works... As I said earlier, I am really not a fan of the day-go/discotheque colouring in these issues. I just kind of ignore it and it doesn't spoil my enjoyment, but I'd love to see this series re-coloured by somebody with a more traditional comic book palette. They go with the 'I was rather indigestible' for how Fett got out of the Sarlacc. Copping from the old Marvel Star Wars comic, issue #81 perhaps? Never mind that why is he working with Dengar? What happened to Bossk? IG-88 is on the cover, but doesn't appear in the story at all. Which is a shame because I'd have loved to have seen IG-88 in the story. I like having Dengar there with Fett, but yeah...I'm not entirely sure why Fett wouldn't just be working alone. One of the positive ones dissed the Marvel books, too. Philistines!
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 20, 2024 11:32:41 GMT -5
The Kaiburr Crystal (or crystals, plural) originated in an early script draft as a maguffin, to help drive the plot, as they have to search for it. It was supposed to control or magnify the Force, so it was sought by both sides. It got discarded in redrafting; but, Alan Dean Foster used it for his literary sequel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, as an old woman makes a bargain with Luke and Leia to help get them off a planet, in exchange for helping her find the crystal. She has a sliver from the crystal (the "splinter") and when Luke touched it, he could feel its power). I haven't read many of the later novels (the Zahna books, The Courtship of Princess Leia, Truce at Bakura, Jedi Search) and have no idea if they messed around with it; but, Rogue One made it the necessary element for the lightsaber. That was not in Lucas' original. In his telling, especially at the beginning, the "laser sword" was used all over the galaxy and it was specifically a weapon for fighting aboard spaceships, much like a cutlass, in a pirate movie (one of Lucas' genre inspirations).
An early draft went into more detail about the Force, There was Ashla, the Good side, and Bogan, the Bad side, which indicates influence from the Lensman Saga. There, the two races who have manipulated genetic development in the galaxy are the Arisians, who set in motion human development, leading to the Galactic Patrol and the Lensmen. The Eddorians oppose them and they are behind the evolution of the Boskone, the enemy of the Galactic Patrol. The novel Triplanetary, which was retrofitted as an origin of the Lensmen (a couple of parts were published before The Galactic Patrol, but were not directly related to that story and were inserted into the saga when they were expanded into the novel, with another book bridging the gap). This was also influential on the back history of Babylon 5, with the Shadows and Vorlons manipulating lesser species, as part of their conflict (as well as the Rangers, right down to their badge). Lucas' main inspiration was the work of Carlos Castaneda and his talk of the "force of others." Castaneda was big with the counter-culture of the 60s and early 70s, though he was primarily a BS artist, who claimed he got these secrets from an old Yaqui shaman, Don Juan Matus. You can pretty much file his books with the writings of the Theosophists, like Madame Blavatsky and Talbot Mundy (though Mundy used that mumbo jumbo well for some pulp adventure novels) and Scientology.
The Green Lantern Corps is definitely swiped from the Lensman Saga, though not as directly as you might think. There was a Japanese anime adaptation, which features young Kim Kinnison obtaining his lens from a dying Lensman, who came to his planet, seeking his father. Kim takes up the mission and meets another, more alien Lensman. In the Galactic Patrol, he graduates from the Patrol Academy and is then made a Lensman, in a ritual, where the lens bonds to his hand. There is no dying alien passing it to him. He does later meet an alien Lensman. There also isn't the ship battle that leads to Kim ejecting, with the Boskone raider schematic, as in the novel. It appears the Japanese team decided to make it more directly resemble Green Lantern, with the scene mimicking Abin Sur passing on his power ring to Hal Jordan.
Mike Barr brought out the Lensman connection by introducing the characters Arisia and Eddore.
Starlog was the main source I saw for discussion about the influences of Star Wars, as they tried to fill the magazine with copy, other than Star Trek and 50s sci-fi movies that weren't that good, even then. You'd see mentions of things like "bantha" originating in the John Carter of Mars stories and of The Hidden Fortress and the Dam Busters, as movie inspirations and then people would bring up other sci-fi works. There was a story I read, about World Con or San Diego, where either Phil Lippincott was describing the plot of Star Wars, to fans, and a noted sci-fi writer (I wanna say Poul Anderson, but I am not sure) heckled that that was just "space opera" and not "science fiction," which is an old battle in the sci-fi world, in efforts to have the genre taken seriously. Harlan Ellison made some criticisms, more about fans who worshipped the film, rather than the film itself, that led to back and forth between fans, in their letters column. He also lobbed some criticisms at Star Trek, which got Trekkies going. From what I recall, they were valid criticisms and he was basically telling them they needed to take a larger view, to see this wasn't some grand revelation, but a mixture of previous (and in his opinion, better) writings and films.
I miss those days, because you had to put more thought into a letter to a magazine, to get it published, rather than a knee-jerk rant and click on "send." It also seemed a bit more magical, as bits of information came out, about the back story or the production and the photos from the sets. I still recall seeing the teaser trailer, in 1976 and totally getting the wrong idea of the story. I thought it was taking place in some weird city and Vader grew into giant size (the part where he is shot from below, in Lei's cell, made him look like he was a giant). Part of that was that the only thing I had to compare to what we saw in the trailer was the Sinbad films of Ray Harryhausen. The Marvel adaptation was my first real glimpse at the actual story (and that was only the first three issues). I didn't know that Biggs was cut out of the film (apart from a few shots in the dogfights) or that Vader doesn't have a cup of coffee, or that Jabba didn't appear and have whiskers. A friend had the novelization and the copy on the back, with talk of Luke taking up his father's "laser sword" had me thinking of The Mark of Zorro (tv version) where Diego takes his father's sword off the wall and slashes a Z in the dust on a mirror. The Making of special, on ABC, was my first real glimpse of the film, but it had been out for a couple of months before my siblings and I got to see it. That was excrutiating, as everyone was talking about it at school and I was about the only one who hadn't seen it....even the girls had mostly seen it!
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Post by Duragizer on Jun 20, 2024 16:21:57 GMT -5
The weird mood coloring is starting to annoy me 4 issues in, but sometimes it just works... As I said earlier, I am really not a fan of the day-go/discotheque colouring in these issues. I just kind of ignore it and it doesn't spoil my enjoyment, but I'd love to see this series re-coloured by somebody with a more traditional comic book palette. Kennedy's vision was steadily deteriorating due to glaucoma, which is the primary reason why he went with that palette (he's totally colour blind now). I mostly like it, though the ubiquity of blue lightsabers gets to be way too much, especially later on in DEII.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 20, 2024 20:56:31 GMT -5
really? That's interesting... I had no idea! I kinda remember the Crystals from Splinter in the Mind's Eye, but it's been a LONG time since I thought about that one.. even though that was sort of the first EU book (or were the Han Solo novels first... those were fun). I think I would have liked NOT Fett to be there.. save him for later. Why would he want to work for the Hutts again anyway? Dengar, Bossk and IG-88? That would make sense to me. Or go crazy and make up some new characters.. it's been six years, after all... maybe some of the old folks are dead, reformed, or hit a big score and retired to Navarro ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) . I definitely prefer lightsabers just as a weapon you build...I feel like it's just a bit too much to have them be magic soul crystals or whatever it is now. Let the color be just a personal preference, nothing more. It's fun everyone has to build their own.. makes the Jedi feel more than just warriors or 'wizards' but it feels less like that when they have to like 'speak' to them. I might have to read some Lensmen books again too... I have I think two collected old sci fi book club volumes but when I first read them I really knew very little of the genre so I bet I would pick up alot of interesting things now. Another one for the list! That's interesting about the guards... I definitely thought they weren't very Ralph McQuarrie-ish, so I assumed they were just created for the series. I do love it when no good idea goes unused!
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 20, 2024 22:45:24 GMT -5
really? That's interesting... I had no idea! I kinda remember the Crystals from Splinter in the Mind's Eye, but it's been a LONG time since I thought about that one.. even though that was sort of the first EU book (or were the Han Solo novels first... those were fun). I think I would have liked NOT Fett to be there.. save him for later. Why would he want to work for the Hutts again anyway? Dengar, Bossk and IG-88? That would make sense to me. Or go crazy and make up some new characters.. it's been six years, after all... maybe some of the old folks are dead, reformed, or hit a big score and retired to Navarro ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) . I definitely prefer lightsabers just as a weapon you build...I feel like it's just a bit too much to have them be magic soul crystals or whatever it is now. Let the color be just a personal preference, nothing more. It's fun everyone has to build their own.. makes the Jedi feel more than just warriors or 'wizards' but it feels less like that when they have to like 'speak' to them. I might have to read some Lensmen books again too... I have I think two collected old sci fi book club volumes but when I first read them I really knew very little of the genre so I bet I would pick up alot of interesting things now. Another one for the list! That's interesting about the guards... I definitely thought they weren't very Ralph McQuarrie-ish, so I assumed they were just created for the series. I do love it when no good idea goes unused! Splinter of the Mind's Eye was the first novel, beyond the novelization. Alan Dean Foster wrote the novelization, but Lucas was credited as author, based on his script. He later publicly stated that Foster wrote it, adapting the script. Foster signed a deal to write 3 new adventures, with an eye towards them being possible new films, on a lower budget. Lucas held on to props and sets, to reuse. The story is almost entirely planet-bound, cutting way down on the number of expensive effects shots and models. The misty, swampy planet also means they can skimp a bit on the physical look of things, with enough fog machines. However, Star Wars was a massive hit and they were going to have dumptrucks full of money to produce a sequel. They did not ask for any more books from Foster and the novel series then moved on to Brian Daley's Han Solo trilogy, which was pretty good, then the Lando books. Foster made good royalties off both the Star Wars novel and Splinter...wouldn't be surprised if he got a buyout of the remained of his deal. He got tons of work writing other novelizations and that helped promote his own writing. As far as the Lensman Saga, I have read Triplanetary and The Galactic Patrol, but didn't completely finish it (I was on a road trip and just couldn't concentrate on it) and haven't read the others. I had the whole series, after locating most in a used bookstore; but, they gathered dust forever, before I unloaded them. Smith's prose is rather dated, which can slow things down, in spots. When the action is really flowing, it is spectacular; when it isn't....well..... Babylon 5 used so many ideas from it that is read more about the series; but not the books themselves. A lot of people who love it discovered them at a young age. The science is pure fantasy and things get operatic, hence the term space opera. Given how much I love Kirby's comic book operas, or P Craig Russell's actual opera comic books, it should be right up my alley; but, it just gathered dust. It is a series I would like to at least try again, especially the Galactic Patrol, Grey Lensman, Second Stage Lensman and Children of the Lens. First Stage Lensman was written after the others and inserted to bridge the gap between Triplanetary and The Galactic Patrol. Triplanetary was rewritten, from the original segments, to fit into the Lensman series; but, the series didn't derive from it. So, books 1 and 2 (Triplanetary and First Stage Lensman) are prequels to the main series. There you get the epic battles, Kim Kinnison becoming a legendary Lensman and siring children who will be even greater. So, I wouldn't spend lots of money to read them, especially if you can get them through a library, until you can judge for yourself. If anything, The Galactic Patrol is the best place to start and go forward, then maybe go back and read the first two. My ex-brother-in-law, who had read them, recommended that to me, after the first time I tried to get through Triplanetary. It was several years before I tried again and I finished Triplanetary, buy only about half of The Galactic Patrol. Of course, my mind was elsewhere, as I was on a trip with my parents, back to their home in South Carolina, and a week's vacation, for me. I had been dating Barb for a month, or so, and we were to the point of getting physical (not everyone goes on the 3rd date, Hollywood). So, yeah, I was not exactly concentrating completely on it. It didn't help that when I talked to her on the phone, she said when I got back in town, it was going to be time. At that point, Kim Kinnison was a lost cause. I ended up moving, with a change of stores, a year later and got rid of any book I still hadn't gotten around to reading, especially if I had them for a long time. So, out they went, along with some other pulp reprints and mysteries and thrillers, and a bunch of classic literature I felt I should read, but which bored me when I tried. Looking at you James Fenimore Cooper!
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Post by Duragizer on Jun 20, 2024 23:49:06 GMT -5
I definitely prefer lightsabers just as a weapon you build...I feel like it's just a bit too much to have them be magic soul crystals or whatever it is now. Let the color be just a personal preference, nothing more. It's fun everyone has to build their own.. makes the Jedi feel more than just warriors or 'wizards' but it feels less like that when they have to like 'speak' to them. I think the two concepts can be complementary. A Force-user constructs their own lightsaber, which is powered by a living crystal. The crystal has a will of its own and won't just let anyone use it as if it were a battery, so the Force-user has to meditate over the crystal to make it cooperate. A lightsider will spend days or even weeks communing with the crystal to form a rapport with it, while a darksider will just use the Force to dominate the crystal. At the end of the process, the crystal takes on a hue influenced by the Force-user's psyche/preferences.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 21, 2024 21:32:52 GMT -5
I've read some Alan Dean Foster... his the (mostly) humans Pip and Flinx series, which has its moments, and the Call to Arms trilogy, which is of the 'Humans are the galaxy's soldiers' type of story... I remember liking that one. And of course he's written a million movie adaptations. I get the whole thing making the lightsaber part of the force and all, (especially considering the Samurai influence)... but I don't know, for some reason that's just one step too much for me. I'd rather they just be gadgets. I can accept I'm in the minority on that though ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) .
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 9,981
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Post by Confessor on Jun 22, 2024 7:48:11 GMT -5
I get the whole thing making the lightsaber part of the force and all, (especially considering the Samurai influence)... but I don't know, for some reason that's just one step too much for me. I'd rather they just be gadgets. I can accept I'm in the minority on that though ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) . I'm not sure you are in a minority .... at least, not among those of us who think about such minutia, I mean. I too prefer the idea of lightsabers just being an out-dated weapon that uses a crystal to create the beam/blade. That's all they need to be and, let's be honest, all they were ever intended to be by George Lucas back in the '70s and '80s.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 22, 2024 18:05:14 GMT -5
Lucas' idea was that it was an old fashioned weapon, that required more skill, which fit well, into the cinematic samurai world. In feudal Japan, only a samurai could carry the twin swords (the katana and the wakizashi, the shorter blade), but others did carry katanas. The difference is that the samurai were usually better trained and more skilled with the sword and that fits with the Jedi.
People forget, thanks to the Prequel nonsense, that, in the beginning, anyone could tap into the Force, if they were willing to try and apply self discipline. It was basically zen meditation, that let you hear the heartbeat of the universe and then tap into its life energy, just like the concept of qi (or chi, if you prefer). Thus, it was skill, discipline and training that made a jedi, not a blood count. Hated that when he threw that crap into Phantom Menace. Before, it was lost knowledge; now, it was eugenics. Kind of summed up my feelings about some of Lucas' generation, who talked Eastern philosophies of peace and harmony in their youth, then read Musashi and Sun Tzu to destroy competitors in business and justify being certified a-holes to people, for financial gain, in the 80s.
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