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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 12, 2024 11:38:19 GMT -5
I seem to recall reading somewhere that Dark Empire had been pitched earlier, when Marvel had the license, but never happened. Obviously, changes were made to reflect the Zahn material; but, if true that might explain some of the vagueness, as I seem tor recall Coruscant being used in the Zahn books. The origin of it is from EE "Doc" Smith's Lensman Saga, where Smith used the word multiple times, in describing planets. That same saga influenced much of the militaristic aspects of the Jedi, right down to the enhanced abilities and mental powers, plus the starship boarding and escape in a lifepod, which was a central sequence in The Galactic Patrol, the original novel (the earliest chronologically, Triplanetary, was published later).
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 12, 2024 11:43:11 GMT -5
ps Why not adapt Zahn? Probably profit participation. Zahn benefitted from a depressed Star Wars merchandising environment, when he signed his book deal and he got a much better royalty deal than subsequent writers did. I would suspect that it might include participation in anything that used characters he created in the books, though Lucas was pretty good about owning everything. Zahn might not have gotten a say or a huge chunk of change; but, he might have been entitled to a small participation and Disney is not about paying people a share of the money. Or, it could have just been standard Hollywood arrogance, because what would some science fiction writer know about writing movies?
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 12, 2024 12:28:00 GMT -5
I think it's more that last one... since I'm sure JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson didn't come cheap, but maybe a bit of the former if he had a percent of revenue deal.... which would make sense as to why they were willing to use Thrawn on the small screen.
Of course we may well get something like Heir to the Empire from Dave Filoni, we'll see.
I talked about the development a bit before I posted the 1st review... Dark Empire was pitched first for sure, but both were sort of being finalized at the same time when at some point Lucas Licensing decided to go with both because of the separate deal with the book published and Dark Horse... at one point they proposed a novelization of Dark Empire even, but that got shut down as the publisher (Bantam) wanted to use their own guy.
I hadn't checked what the first mention of Coruscant was, if it was Zahn or the RPG books... Wookieepedia has reference to an interview with Zahn talking about how he came up with the name, so it must have been in Heir to the Empire (there are definitely scenes from their that I recall, just wasn't sure if it was named.
That being the case, I'm a little surprised they didn't use it in Dark Empire too... while they didn't co-ordinate, I did find an inteview with Tom Veitch that he was given the plot to Zahn's stuff and visa versa (the article talks about how Zahn didn't approve of cloning the Emperor)
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jun 12, 2024 16:17:31 GMT -5
I seem to recall reading somewhere that Dark Empire had been pitched earlier, when Marvel had the license, but never happened. Yes. Marvel Age Preview #1 said Dark Empire was going to be three 64 pagers in the bookshelf format, with the first issue on sale in the Fall of 1990. ![](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiJ2u2GTTYFyA48rFjHPqT9_2L7FwViWbzWOwhoNL93Emg4KZe-xE6Jl0moHAvjG4fmQr1GwPOXgLDCvYl7OyxLzwX7gAtbAy7f1iLW0Wf4L8DxN0TtBvoHrhkYOJOKhuYOfcFJsNrKQKE/s640/marvel_age_preview_01_p23.jpg)
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 13, 2024 11:30:57 GMT -5
I'm away on holiday for a few more days Wildfire, but when I get home I'm gonna start re-reading these issues again (for the upmteenth time) and chiming in with my thoughts on the issues you're reviewing. Love seeing that you've begun though; these early Dark Horse series were all pretty good and, more importantly, were sooooo welcome to us content-starved Star Wars fans back in the mid-90s.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 13, 2024 19:35:14 GMT -5
I agree! I was SO excited at the time with the EU stuff...I bought most of the novels as the were coming out and a fair number of the comics. It's why I'm so sad at where things are at right now... there are stories to be told out there if they found the right writers.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 13, 2024 21:57:12 GMT -5
Dark Empire #2 Cover dated : February 1992 Issue title : Book 2: Devastor of Worlds Script: Tom Veitch Artwork: Cam Kennedy Letters: Todd Klein Cover art Dave Dorman Overall rating: 6 of 10 Summary: : Back at the hidden rebel base, Mon Mothma and the rest of the leaders are worried that the warring remnants have all disappeared into the core. The Falcon then arrives home and lets them know that Luke chose to say behind, and was captured by the Dark Side. While they are reporting the new centralized Imperial force attacks with a new super weapon... the World Devastator (kinda looks like a giant Vader torso...) The attack includes Calamari. The rebel leadership decides they will give Lando and Wedge (who apparently was also rescued last time but just never mentioned), while Han stays behind to train fighter pilots. Meanwhile, we see the energy storm landed Luke in a 'prison ship' and is taken to Byss.... where I think we all know who he finds there. He is not surprised either. The Emperor convinces him that killing him again will do no good, but instead he has to learn from the Dark Side to beat him.... which Luke agrees to. I especially love Artoo commenting there... that's clearly Astromech for WTF?!?! Back at the ranch, Leia is very worried about Luke, and convinces Han they have to go save him... to be continued! My View: Boy, things sure are moving fast... we just went from Imperial remnants duking it out to the Emperor being back and having a massive new dark side based weapon. There are ALOT of full page panels in this comic.. six to be exact. While Kennedy renders some fine space scenes, it doesn't help the story telling much. It feels very rushed, especially with key details not mentioned in the first issue suddenly popping in, namely Wedge being one of the people saved and that the 'storm' the got Luke was made of the the Dark Side somehow. There was a nice moment with Han and Leia where Han admits he volunteer to train pilots (when logically he should be with Lando and Wedge should be doing that) to spend more time with Leia... it does beg the question where the kids are, since they aren't mentioned or show. There's also some weird time things... like is all this happening simultaneously? Han mentions Leia has been worried for days... so is rebel command so hidden and remote its that far from Mon Cala? Seems odd. Never mind that the WON, why still a secret hidden base? That doesn't exactly inspire confidence. It all seems especially odd considering this is supposed to happen after Thrawn is defeated.. so the Emperor was biding his time that whole time and no one had any idea? (That part is not Veitch's fault, of course, but still...) I think I need to stop trying to match the two up, because while they don't exactly directly contradict, you have to tied yourself in a few knots toget them to co exist. That said, I LOVE the World Devastators.. conquering the galaxies with giant floating factories? Yes, please. Continuity Notes : Its now extremely clear that the last movie took this plot (and mangled it horribly).. spliting the part of Luke into two new characters, among other bad decisions. Byss gets introduced as basically the homeworld, or perhaps the source of the dark side of the force. Located in the 'Deep Core' there is a special hyper space lane to get there. It's not clear if the dark side part is why the emperor chose it, or he caused it (if I recall that gets sussed out later in the 'Dawn of the Jedi' series) We get what (looking back) is a fun look at the clone wars before they sorted out the clone wars when look is taken by an 'Imperial Dungeon ship' which was 'used during the Clone Wars to transport captured Jedi'.. obviously that doesn't jive with anything that comes later. He also mentioned that the ship has 'Mandalorian walls' that are invisbile to the force. I guess maybe a bit of a preview of Beskar? It was just a little throw away panel, but just goes to show how easy it is to mess up long running fiction histories... sort of like that one scene in the Marvel series where Obi-Wan is at a bar. While there's no mention of Camino or clone trooper or anything, nothing here rules them out... the back matter just explains the Emperor has multiple clones always at the ready that keep wearing out faster and faster. It DOES mention a Jedi Master who had mastered the art of transferring from one body to another... Ashka Boda. Feels like he would have been involved a bit in the clone wars, no? I'm not sure we ever see him, just a few passing mentions here and there. All the stuff about Byss and the Emperor being cloned is all back matter (still with the purple and yellow pages. There is also a summary page made up to look the the traditional Star Wars opening crawler. Oh, I almost forgot, can't have an issue without a original movie quote:
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Post by Duragizer on Jun 15, 2024 2:20:04 GMT -5
The references to the Clone Wars/Jedi Purge are one of the things about the old school EU I get a kick out of. They painted a much richer picture of those events that the prequels ever did.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 17, 2024 8:47:40 GMT -5
Dark Empire #3 Cover dated : April 1992 Issue title : Book 3: Battle for Calamari Script: Tom Veitch Artwork: Cam Kennedy Letters: Todd Klein Cover art Dave Dorman Overall rating: 8 of 10 Summary : Lando and Wedge head to Calamari with guns blazing... Lando is clearly in charge, and dives straight into the fight. They break into orbit quickly, but the Imperials mock the 'antique' X-Wings and then discuss sending a report to 'Supreme Commander Skywalker'. They apparently have drone Ties. Lando smashes up the Star Destroyer (again), and laments it's never been worse for the Alliance. Meanwhile, Leia gets a long distance visitation from Luke... telling her to stay away... the Emperor interrupts and she faints... leading to he being sure she has to go save him, and my favorite line in the book: They are off to Nar Shaddaa to see an 'old friend' of Han's to get some sort of permission to travel in towards the deep core where Leia senses Luke is. Han finds some old friends and ends up helping them get their ship that has the permits up and running. Han heads back to an old stash for parts and Leia come across Vima, a beggar who claims to be a Jedi that give her something. Han opens the door and an old droid that was upkeeping it for him says theres a Mr. Fett to see him... to be continued! My view : Han is so right... if Luke is so great, why does he have to keep saving him? Also, why is Lando is charge of space combat again? He was the governor of a planet, how does that qualify him he run a fleet? Why isn't Ackbar in charge of the most important, unique asset the Alliance has... especially when it's attacking his home planet? That really makes no sense. The character bits with Han and Leia (Han especially) are what really make this issue, IMO. He's glorious and in his element here. This seems a bit like a random side quest to give Han and Leia something to do... but its the best part, so I'll allow it ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) . Still no mention of who's taking care of Jacen and Jaina.. it's not C3PO, since he's in on the adventure. It seems after acknowledging they exist Veitch moved on. Continuity Notes: In what is a totally unforced error... they mention Calamari's 'floating cities'... I guess someone forgot they were underwater? Its mentioned that the Rebels captured exactly 2 Star Destroyers.. the one they crashed in issue one, then the one used here. It's clear that there are many, many more out there. That makes it seem the big battle in Return of the Jedi was a lot less exciting... sure they took out the 2nd Death Star, but we know now the Emperor lived.. how much damage did it really do? (This was Zahn's argument against bringing him back). Salla here is very clearly who the newer Marvel writers based Sana Starros on...when she first turned up, I knew she seemed familiar but I couldn't place here.. this is it! ![](https://i.imgur.com/BpMTphH.jpeg) Vima is the first of what I recall are a few references that end up setting up Tales of the Jedi (or maybe that's in Dark Empire II? We'll see!). I know for sure the events between her and Leia are referenced again later in the books. Han's friends tell his his bounty has quadrupled since Jabba's death, and it seems he was given credit (though he points out Leia did it when he introduces her around). The back matter gives profiles of Han's friends Mako reminds of the that guy that was like his half-brother towards the end of the Marvel run whose name escapes me. They don't really ever get picked up by anyone else (though I think they might get a brief mention the next time they bring Han back to Nar Shadaa in the novels). There's also an old school letters page. There are 4 letters (all pretty long) and are all positive.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 18, 2024 19:54:49 GMT -5
OK, I'm back from holiday and I've just re-read the first three issues of Dark Empire. Overall, I think this series makes for a pretty strong revival of Star Wars comics, even if it is ultimately inferior to Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy of books. Tom Vietch's writing is pretty good and he manages to capture the "voices" of most of the main cast members. I love the "story so far" recaps at the start of each issue and how they are formatted like the opening crawl from the original trilogy. Dave Dorman's cover art is pretty good for the most part. In particular, I like that some of the covers look like unused Star Wars movie posters, rather than a traditional comic book cover. Just like the "story so far" crawl on the first page of each issue, these painted covers somehow make the series feel more important than just another comic book and more like a proper sequel to Return of the Jedi. Anyway, here are a few comments related to specific parts your excellent reviews, wildfire2099 ... Dark Empire #1 My view: ...I know it's not for everyone, and at times it gets a bit TOO sketchy, but for the most part I really love the art and coloring, it matches the mood well and the characters are all instantly recognizable... I have always quite liked Cam Kennedy's artwork and I already knew him when Dark Empire came out from his work on Judge Dredd and Rogue Trooper in 2000AD. But Dark Empire might well be the best art that I've ever seen from him. He manages to tell the story very clearly, while still capturing the Lucas-style "faster, more intense!" flavour of the action sequences that we expect from a Star Wars movie. I'm reminded that originally this series was supposed to be published as a 3-issue prestige format series and I think Kennedy is raising his game here art-wise, knowing that this wasn't "just" another comic book series. That said, I do NOT like the colouring and never have. I don't necessarily expect everything in a comic to be coloured realistically, but the florescent pinks, greens, reds and blues that bathe everything make it look like the story is happening in a discoteque! Not that the colouring choices spoil my enjoyment at all, but still, I'm really not a fan of the day-glo palette used. ...yet Luke is clearly not ok.. that is not how he looks on the cover ![](https://i.imgur.com/oMY0FMh.jpeg) Yeah, I think Kennedy goes out of his way to deliberately draw Luke unlike how he looked in the original trilogy. His depictions of Han, Leia and Lando...and even the Emperor a bit later on...are very good and instantly recognisable as the characters we know and love from the films. But Luke is definitely off and I think that is a deliberate choice to underscore how fraught and over-burdened he has become by the encroaching Dark Side. The discussion of the center of the Empire is referred to as the 'Imperial System' and 'Imperial City'...not yet called Coruscant. It's also clear it's not the hyper-developed planet-city we have now, as there are open fields where battles are happening. I think this is something that is a holdover from when the story was first written for Marvel, back in late 1989 and early 1990. Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire book, which was the first place where the Imperial Capital Planet was named as Coruscant, came out in 1991 and was likely started after DE was complete. Certainly, it was published after DE was finished. Vietch may've done a little bit of tweaking to get things to line up more with Heir to the Empire – such as referring to Han and Leia's twins, though they weren't named as Jacen and Jaina Solo. Likewise, Thrawn isn't actually mentioned in the story itself, if memory serves, right? Nor is there any mention of Mara Jade or Jorus C'baoth. Even if Vietch saw an early draft of Zahn's book, those characters may not have been named in it yet. Incidentally, the concept of an "Imperial Capital Planet" or "Imperial City" originates from an early draft of the script for Return of the Jedi, in which George Lucas was toying with the idea of an Imperial world called Had Abbadon (Ralph McQuarrie even did concept art for it). The Imperial Capital Planet was first mentioned in print in Marvel's Star Wars #61, written by David Michelinie in early 1982. Due to the moody lighting and coloring of the issue, it's not totally clear what lightsaber Luke is using... it appears light blue, but so does everything else that is energy related. I have always assumed it was the lightsabre that he constructed on Tatooine as part of his Jedi training, in order to replace his father's, which was lost on Cloud City. Not that Kennedy draws it remotely resembling that lightsaber, of course, but yeah...I'm pretty sure that's what it's supposed to be. Dark Empire #2 ...Boy, things sure are moving fast... Yes, they are moving fast. I love that about Vietch's story pacing: it's very much like the full-throttle storytelling of the first three Star Wars films. It feels very rushed, especially with key details not mentioned in the first issue suddenly popping in, namely Wedge being one of the people saved and that the 'storm' the got Luke was made of the the Dark Side somehow. I agree. Issue #2 definitely feels less tightly plotted than issue #1. That said, I LOVE the World Devastators.. conquering the galaxies with giant floating factories? Yes, please. Ha! this will be our first point of real disagreement. I always thought that the World Devastators sucked. Kennedy's design for them looks cr*p, but I also find it cringy how often Vietch has to have characters telling the readers that these things are far more lethal than the Death Star. I mean, c'mon…the World Devastators (God, I hate that name) are clearly a pretty big threat, but more lethal than a moon-sized battle-station that could destroy an entire planet with one superlaser blast? I don't think so! Its now extremely clear that the last movie took this plot (and mangled it horribly).. spliting the part of Luke into two new characters, among other bad decisions. I've still never watched The Rise of Skywalker – I was too annoyed by The Last Jedi to bother watching it. But yes, from the little I know of the film's plot, it does indeed sound very reminiscent of Dark Empire. Dark Empire #3 ...leading to her being sure she has to go save him, and my favorite line in the book: ![](https://i.imgur.com/Kurx0Ka.jpeg) Yeah, Han's "voice" isn't always perfect in this series, but that's an example of Vietch really nailing it. You can definitely hear Harrison Ford saying that line. Unfortunately, at other times the characterisation of Han just seems kinda off. I mean, at one point (in issue #2, I believe) Vietch has Solo uttering the word "Gosh!" I really can't imagine Ford saying that! To be honest, this slightly off characterisation of Solo was also a recurring problem in the old Marvel series too, especially under the pens of Roy Thomas and Archie Goodwin. why is Lando is charge of space combat again? He was the governor of a planet, how does that qualify him he run a fleet? Well, don't forget that there were all those stories about Lando's "little manoeuvre at the battle of tanaab". Plus, he was a seasoned veteran of the second Death Star battle. But hey, this is the same Rebel Alliance who let Luke Skywalker fly an X-Wing Fighter against the first Death Star -- their most perilous and important battle to date -- with little more experience than bulls-eyeing womp rats in his T-16 back home! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) That makes it seem the big battle in Return of the Jedi was a lot less exciting... sure they took out the 2nd Death Star, but we know now the Emperor lived.. how much damage did it really do? (This was Zahn's argument against bringing him back). In a nutshell, this is my entire argument against anything involving the Skywalker family that is set after RotJ. Whatever you have happen, be it the resurrection of the Emperor, the resurgence of the Empire (or First Order, whatever), or an alien invasion from outside the SW galaxy, it will always devalue the ending of Return of the Jedi. That particular story ends with RotJ. The only adventures that really work for me, without undermining the character arcs and sacrifices in the original trilogy, are those that don't centre on Luke, Leia, Han, or the Empire. Like The Mandalorian or the Crimson Empire comic trilogy. Vima is the first of what I recall are a few references that end up setting up Tales of the Jedi (or maybe that's in Dark Empire II? We'll see!). I know for sure the events between her and Leia are referenced again later in the books. Leia's encounter with Vima-Da-Boda here really made an impression on me back when I first read this issue. She's such a mysterious character and it's great that the foundations of the later Tales of the Jedi comics are being laid. One continuity error that I think you might've missed: General Rieekan makes an appearance in this issue, but established canon at this point was that he had been killed during the battle of Hoth, as detailed in the Empire Strikes Back novelization by Donald F. Glut. Anyway, great reviews Wildfire2099. Keep 'em coming!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 18, 2024 23:02:02 GMT -5
Don't like the World Devastators, huh? I picture the alliance considering them 'more dangerous than the Death Star' because they don't destroy a planet, they make it a staging site for the NEXT conquest. Clearly not as scary to the general populace, but for the new government? That's another story.
I forgot about General Rieekan for sure... though I was thinking there was a reason he wasn't supposed to be around any more. re I think a different bad guy for Luke to fight would be fine... just not THIS bad guy again. The end of RotJ should be the end of the Empire as it was.. anything else is bad. Heir to the Empire was reasonable to me.. it's a big galaxy, and it makes sense that there would be some clean up for the Alliance.
I think that's why using the Emperor is bad.. it makes the galaxy seems alot smaller. I picture the Empire having 100s of Star Destroyers.. and after destroying the Death Star, the Alliance probably should have got their hands on a fair number of those.
That's definitely how it feels in the Mandalorian (though they are foolishly disassembling them), but not so much here. I feel like I got that feeling with Heir to the Empire, too.
I'm really going to have to re-read that!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 19, 2024 8:11:47 GMT -5
Don't like the World Devastators, huh? I picture the alliance considering them 'more dangerous than the Death Star' because they don't destroy a planet, they make it a staging site for the NEXT conquest. Clearly not as scary to the general populace, but for the new government? That's another story. I get what you mean...and that's probably a perfectly fine "in-universe" explanation, but the real reason that Vietch keeps telling us that these things are more dangerous than the Death Star is to make the reader feel that they are a credible threat to the Alliance. That's all well and good, but it rings hollow for me because the World Devastators don't obliterate entire planets, turning them into rubble, whereas the Death Star did. The Death Star had the potential to wipe out the entire rebellion in short order -- just blow up all the planets associated with the Rebellion, such as Yavin 4, Mon Calamari, Alderaan etc. And furthermore, the Death Star was such a terrible weapon that the whole idea was that its reputation alone would quash rebellious feeling in the galaxy. As Grand Moff Tarkin said, "fear will keep the local systems in line...fear of this battlestation." The World Devastators are fine as a big, bad weapon for the Emperor to have at his beck and call (although I dislike their design), but there's no way that they pose as big a threat to the Alliance as a battlestation that could wipe the entire movement out with 3 or 4 blasts from its superlaser. I forgot about General Rieekan for sure... though I was thinking there was a reason he wasn't supposed to be around any more. I confess that I didn't catch this goof either back in 1991...I guess it had been a while since I had read the ESB novelisation. But it was something I noticed on a re-read of DE some time later. For what it's worth, the original Marvel comics made the same goof by having General Rieekan appear during David Michelinie's time on the comic. I think a different bad guy for Luke to fight would be fine... just not THIS bad guy again. The end of RotJ should be the end of the Empire as it was.. anything else is bad. Heir to the Empire was reasonable to me.. it's a big galaxy, and it makes sense that there would be some clean up for the Alliance. I kind of agree; mopping up the last remnants of the Empire is fine -- and it's even fine to have a new leader like Grand Admiral Thrawn trying to muster the remaining Imperial forces -- but having the Empire come back as a big threat again, like with the First Order and a resurrected Emperor as in the sequel trilogy and Dark Empire just undermines the story and character arcs of the original trilogy. I think that's why using the Emperor is bad.. it makes the galaxy seems alot smaller. I totally agree. And making the galaxy seem a lot smaller is something that pretty much every Star Wars film after Return of the Jedi has been guilty of. We really don't need to see the same characters again and again or have little fan-servicy things tying minor characters together. Like, even in the prequel trilogy -- which of course absolutely had to feature some of the same characters from the original trilogy, such as Obi-Wan, Anakin and Palpatine; but why did C-3PO have to be built by Anakin, or Boba Fett's dad be the template for the stormtrooper clones, or Anakin have to grow up on Tatooine, or Chewbacca be friends with Yoda in the battle of Kashyyyk? This kind of stuff is just sooo eyeroll-inducing, but far more importantly, it damages the entire franchise by making the fictional setting seem so much smaller.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 19, 2024 12:52:31 GMT -5
RE: Coruscant and Return of the Jedi. There is an even earlier idea of the Imperial capital, in the early drafts of Star Wars. Alderaan was the name used for the planet and there was a floating prison, above the capital city, which is where Deak Starkiller is held, necessitating the rescue mission. In subsequent drafts, Alderaan was shifted to being Leia's home planet and chief financer of the Rebel Alliance and the floating prison ultimately became Cloud City. In between, it is the homeworld of the Knights of the Sith. The scenes on it got revamped into the Death Star scenes, while Alderaan becomes Lei's homeworld. The basic concept of a city planet had already appeared, in the form of Trantor, in Isaac Asimov's Foundation Series, which was a big influence on the conceptualization of The Empire. Also, within Dune, the Harkonen seat, Geidi Prime, was also a city planet. Greek city planner Constantinos Apostolou Doxiadis gave it a name, Ecumenopolis, in 1967, in his theories of a city plane's growth. Asimov created Trantor in 1942. Also, an American religious leader, Thomas Lake Harris, mentioned city-planets in his verses, in the 1800s. Also appearing in 1967 was the Valerian series, in Pilote, in which the center of the Terran Empire is the city-planet, known as the Galaxity. It was where Valerian was born and HQ of the Spacio-Temporal Service, for which Valerian (and Laureline, when she leaves her time period) works. You can do a whole feature on all of the ideas and images that were swiped from Valerian, in both Star Wars and other works. Creator Jean-Claude Mezieres was more than aware of the "theft".... ![](https://i.postimg.cc/nccndyh5/val.jpg) Allegedly, one of the conceptual designers for the Prequels kept an entire set of Valerian albums beside his drawing table and you can see far more similarities in those than even the original trilogy.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 19, 2024 17:55:27 GMT -5
RE: Coruscant and Return of the Jedi. There is an even earlier idea of the Imperial capital, in the early drafts of Star Wars. Alderaan was the name used for the planet and there was a floating prison, above the capital city, which is where Deak Starkiller is held, necessitating the rescue mission. You are quite correct, but it wasn't an entire planet that was an Imperial home world: it was just a city on the planet Alderaan. As you rightly say, this Imperial City became the Death Star in subsequent drafts of the first Star Wars movie, while the floating city aspect was re-used for Cloud City. The concept of an entire Imperial home world planet was first originated during early versions of the RotJ script. The basic concept of a city planet had already appeared, in the form of Trantor, in Isaac Asimov's Foundation Series, which was a big influence on the conceptualization of The Empire. Also, within Dune, the Harkonen seat, Geidi Prime, was also a city planet. That's interesting. I know of most of Dune's influences on SW, but hadn't realised that about Geidi Prime being a city planet. I'm totally unfamiliar with Asimov's Foundation series, I'm afraid. It's worth noting though that the idea of the entire planet of Coruscant being a city originated with author Timothy Zahn in Heir to the Empire, not with George Lucas. Lucas's Imperial Capital planet, Had Abbadon, was not supposed to be covered in one huge city. Indeed, the Emperor's castle on Had Abbadon was surrounded by a lake of lava, which is a concept that was eventually reused for the planet Mustafar in Revenge of the Sith and Vader's Fortress in Rogue One. Also appearing in 1967 was the Valerian series, in Pilote, in which the center of the Terran Empire is the city-planet, known as the Galaxity. It was where Valerian was born and HQ of the Spacio-Temporal Service, for which Valerian (and Laureline, when she leaves her time period) works. You can do a whole feature on all of the ideas and images that were swiped from Valerian, in both Star Wars and other works. Creator Jean-Claude Mezieres was more than aware of the "theft".... ![](https://i.postimg.cc/nccndyh5/val.jpg) Allegedly, one of the conceptual designers for the Prequels kept an entire set of Valerian albums beside his drawing table and you can see far more similarities in those than even the original trilogy. I've heard the whole " Star Wars swiped Valerian" accusations before and I think they are basically bullsh*t. The so called "swipes" are pretty tenuous to my eyes and also often feature ideas that have appeared in a number of other sci-fi stories prior to Valerian. There was even a whole info-graphic going around on the internet about it some years back, showing examples of these alledged swipes, but like I say, it all seemed pretty tenuous to me. Besides, Lucas was never particularly shy about naming his influences when it came to Star Wars, be it Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress, the Buster Crabbe Flash Gordon serials, the EC sci-fi comics, or Dune. I've never seen any real evidence that anyone associated with the look of the original trilogy, such as Lucas, Ralph MacQuarrie, or John Dykstra, was a fan of Valerian or even aware of those comics. Did the prequels' concept artist Doug Chiang or someone working for him have a stack of Valerian books under his desk to regularly swipe from? I've never heard about that or seen any evidence to support such an accusation. Frankly, it sounds like something someone on the internet made up.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 19, 2024 20:10:16 GMT -5
Trantor is most definitely a good example... but that was a GOOD Empire (mostly). I love the Valerian pin up... though I didn't get that far in reading them when Hoopla was carrying Cinebook (I was also reading Lucky Luke and Thorgal) I never really made that connection but it makes sense. That said, Valerian felt more like James Bond in space than anything Star Wars related.
There's also an extent where there are only so many variations you can have of a city skyline.
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