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Post by driver1980 on Jul 26, 2023 7:42:58 GMT -5
In a recent YouTube interview, Chris Van Vliet, an entertainment reporter and YouTuber, interviewed Dave Meltzer, editor of the Wrestling Observer. Many topics were covered, including star ratings.
Meltzer used to rate a wrestling match between 1 and 5 stars. I believe a lot of movie critics use a rating system between 1 and 5, with 1 being poor quality, 5 being a masterpiece. However, Vliet and many others have challenged Meltzer on his system due to the fact he’s tinkered with ratings; firstly, he’s made a bit of a mockery by giving some matches 6 stars, while he’s awarded 5.75 and 6.25 for other bouts. He’s complicated the whole thing.
Personally, I think you should stick to whole numbers. How do you quantify 5.75 or 6.25 for a film or match? And if a match or film is 5 - which I guess is a masterpiece - then how can 6 or 6.25 exist? Isn’t that like adding 1 to infinity? It can’t be done. And where do the decimals come from? If we say Back to the Future is a 5, then what would make it 5.25? Where does that .25 come from? How do you quantify it? If you believe Thomas F. Wilson or Lea Thompson delivered a line particularly well, do you add the .25 to your 5 rating?
It’s silly and needless.
So, comics. Has there ever been a ratings scale in comics? I could imagine a publication like Wizard having had a ratings scale for story, art, a combination of both, etc.
Do you have a personal ratings scale for comics (or any form of entertainment)?
We’ve all heard of the Michelin Scale for restaurants worldwide, with 1 star for a very good outlet, 2 stars for excellent cuisine, and 3 stars for exceptional cuisine/service. That appears to work for them, although rating food outlets is a whole new ball game.
Don’t Michelin also rate hotels with a 1 to 5 star rating? I believe 1 to 5 works. If I book a room in a 1-star hotel, I guess I’m getting basic amenities, while a 5-star room will get me exceptional room service/cuisine, the best concierge service and excellent customer service.
So I believe a 5-star rating, if one doesn’t already exist, would be best for comics. It’d always be subjective. I’d give something like Secret Wars a 2, and The Untold Legend of the Batman a 3 or 4. There’s a chance I could give Watchmen a 5. However, as I said, it’s all subjective. I do think it’d be ludicrous if I took the above scores and started adding decimals and/or exceeding the 5 rating; I mean, if I did rate Watchmen a 5.25, why would it deserve that .25?
What do you think?
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Post by commond on Jul 26, 2023 7:54:35 GMT -5
Hi, driver. Off the top of my head, the graphic novel guide, Slings & Arrows, uses a star system -- link while a lot of other sites uses a letter grade. Personally, I find star ratings useful when searching for something to listen to or watch, but I don't go in for the arguments around the ratings.
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Post by driver1980 on Jul 26, 2023 8:09:12 GMT -5
Hiya. I’ve never heard of Slings & Arrows, not until now, so thank you for that.
Ratings can be useful, although there are times I am surprised. One recent horror film, which even Stephen King endorsed, got good reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, but I thought it was overlong and terrible; conversely, I did enjoy 95% of Superman III, yet some critics’ ratings were low.
I guess you can get near-consensus at times. Most people I have spoken to seemed to like, say, the Claremont/Byrne X-Men run.
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Post by badwolf on Jul 26, 2023 8:10:12 GMT -5
I rate books on Goodreads using their 5-star scale.
1: garbage 2: not good/didn't enjoy, but had some redeeming feature 3. Enjoyed 4. Really good 5. Masterpiece
Every once in a while people ask about half stars, which I guess would be the equivalent of 10 stars such as IMDB uses. But to me that's too much. What's the difference between an 8 or a 9? And do I even want to analyse it that much? I really don't.
So a quarter percent is even more useless to me.
Keep it simple! It doesn't really matter that much anyway.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 26, 2023 8:13:08 GMT -5
I rate books on Goodreads using their 5-star scale. 1: garbage 2: not good/didn't enjoy, but had some redeeming feature 3. Enjoyed 4. Really good 5. Masterpiece Every once in a while people ask about half stars, which I guess would be the equivalent of 10 stars such as IMDB uses. But to me that's too much. What's the difference between an 8 or a 9? And do I even want to analyse it that much? I really don't. So a quarter percent is even more useless to me. Keep it simple! It doesn't really matter that much anyway. I personally find myself frequently wishing for half stars on Goo Dreads. Quite a few books fell like they should fall somewhere between...not quite a four, but more than a three. But that's me.
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Post by majestic on Jul 26, 2023 8:15:35 GMT -5
For comics 5/5 for writing and 5/5 for art works best for me in my mind.
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Post by driver1980 on Jul 26, 2023 8:28:37 GMT -5
Sticking to just 5 whole numbers is preferable to me.
I mean, what would a 6 or 7 be in comparison to an 8? How do I decide a comic story is a 6 rather than a 5? This is why Meltzer, bless him, is being a bit silly with 5.25 or 6.25. I’m sure he means well, but it doesn’t work.
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Post by commond on Jul 26, 2023 8:39:33 GMT -5
I kind of get where Dave was coming from with the first 6 star rating as he honestly thought it was the best match ever, but it would be hard to adopt the same mentality to film, music or wrestling.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 26, 2023 9:08:50 GMT -5
I rate books on Goodreads using their 5-star scale. 1: garbage 2: not good/didn't enjoy, but had some redeeming feature 3. Enjoyed 4. Really good 5. Masterpiece Every once in a while people ask about half stars, which I guess would be the equivalent of 10 stars such as IMDB uses. But to me that's too much. What's the difference between an 8 or a 9? And do I even want to analyse it that much? I really don't. So a quarter percent is even more useless to me. Keep it simple! It doesn't really matter that much anyway. That's pretty similar to what I do on Good reads: 1: Hated it would take alot for me to try the author again 2: Boring, Derivative, poorly written, or some big plot hole that made me yell at the book. Sometimes I might read the next book, but only if after reading the plot summary it goes in a direction I like. 3: Decent, but nothing I would recommend. Sometimes middle books that in good series where nothing happens, or the author annoys me with some plot point 4: Good book... happy I read it... will usually continue if it's a series. 5: Great book.. sometimes one I recommend... I don't give out a huge amount of them. While I do sometimes have to think about it between ratings, I don't think 1/2 scores are needed.... just makes it more complicated. I do think 5 is the minimum to have good stats.. just 3 ratings is not enough.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 26, 2023 9:10:37 GMT -5
Sticking to just 5 whole numbers is preferable to me. I mean, what would a 6 or 7 be in comparison to an 8? How do I decide a comic story is a 6 rather than a 5? This is why Meltzer, bless him, is being a bit silly with 5.25 or 6.25. I’m sure he means well, but it doesn’t work. I've always thought Meltzer is making tally marks as he watches it. 'Oh, nice Tope, that's worth a 1/4 star' 'He kicked out of that?!? what an exchange! add 1/2!' And of course the Bucks start with 3 because they named a move after him.
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Post by badwolf on Jul 26, 2023 10:01:31 GMT -5
While I do sometimes have to think about it between ratings, I don't think 1/2 scores are needed.... just makes it more complicated. I do think 5 is the minimum to have good stats.. just 3 ratings is not enough. Yeah, once in a blue moon I get a book that I think falls in the middle, but not often enough for me to want that option all the time.
I hated when Netflix went from five star rating system to thumbs up or down. Nothing for "meh..."
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 26, 2023 10:46:11 GMT -5
I use a three point system:
1).....
3)......
and 2)......
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 26, 2023 12:10:05 GMT -5
I personally find myself frequently wishing for half stars on Goo Dreads. Quite a few books fell like they should fall somewhere between...not quite a four, but more than a three. But that's me. Like Brylcreem for locs?
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Post by driver1980 on Jul 27, 2023 7:32:00 GMT -5
I do agree with wildfire2099 that 3 stars aren’t high enough. 10 stars are 5 stars too many. I mean, I’m not even sure how I’d distinguish between 8 and 9. And if you start adding a .25 (or 1/4 if you prefer), it gets ludicrous. If I decide a film isn’t the greatest ever, so not worthy of a ten, but perhaps solid and entertaining, you could hypothetically give it an 8, but if you give it 8.25 or 8 and a 1/4, well how on earth do you justify/quantify that? A five-star ratings system is so relatable, I feel. A system with decimals, fractions and a ten-star rating isn’t. It’s even more subjective than one can realise. I mean, I might like an actor so much that even if he appears in a film with a mediocre script, I might, subconsciously, give the film 4 stars because I’m in awe of a particular actor. However, that same film with an actor I hadn’t heard of might only get a 3. Even subjectively, it doesn’t work for me. Plus, it’s the whole apples and oranges thing - in any medium. In wrestling, am I going to apply the same standards to both a throwaway gimmick match on syndicated TV and a serious technical match taking place at a premium live event at Madison Square Garden? Same with comics: I might give 5 stars to both Watchmen and Vol. 1 of Scooby-Doo Team-Up. But even though they both might get 5 stars, there’s no way the ratings system is a fair comparison; I’m rating Watchmen for being unique, profound, thought-provoking, etc. I’m rating Vol. 1 of Scooby-Doo Team-Up because it’s vibrant, colourful, entertaining, quirky, etc. Can the 5-star rating have equal value to two different collections like those? And that goes back to films: if I see Oppenheimer at the cinema, I’m obviously going to think about it and rate it differently than Caddyshack because they are two different entities, in different genres, and with different expectations. How can the star rating be applied fairly to those?
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Post by jason on Jul 27, 2023 19:17:10 GMT -5
Also, with comics being a continuing narrative, you cant really rate specific issues of comics. If an issue is full of setup but not much happens, but the events pay off in a later issue, how do you exactly rate that? At least with wrestling matches, you can kind of seperate them from the angle, though sometimes again, you'll need the angle to get the full experience (for example, one of my favorite matches is Ultimate Warrior vs Randy Savage at Wrestlemania 7. While they do tell a story through the match, it's more fulfilling if you know the whole story behind it).
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