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Post by commond on Mar 23, 2023 9:05:43 GMT -5
The catalyst for most superhero stories isn't that they have these amazing powers so they should use them for good but that something tragic happens to them.
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Post by zaku on Mar 23, 2023 9:07:45 GMT -5
What do you mean as "hero", on a practical level? I sit on a gargoyle waiting for a crime? I rescue cats full time? ;-) On the definition of "hero" depends the answer! I think my answer above may help with that. But I think you probably know I was talking about traditional "comic book superhero" type activity, right? Come on guys, love the philosophy but you know the spirit of the question. If you go stop bank robbers for a living, mask on or off. Think more like a 12 year old, it's healthier. They pay me for stopping bank robbers? Because If I did it for free, it would be the most unethical thing ever! I mean, there are people who are paid to do it. It would be like stealing their jobs! And if I alone had to solve all the shortcomings of society, what incentives would the aforementioned society have to improve itself, given that I think of everything for free? And when I were gone? My God, I would be the ruin of everyone!!!
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Post by zaku on Mar 23, 2023 9:09:48 GMT -5
Like, what if I had real superpowers? After doing a test flight for fun, I'd do anything to get rid of them! It would be like having a loaded gun in the house that I never asked for! Nope, the active shooter situation specifically. I would do nothing, because I don't have the specific training or experience to intervene and I would only risk hindering the work of the authorities. If I really felt this enormous weight on my shoulders, I would enlist in the police.
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Post by zaku on Mar 23, 2023 9:14:09 GMT -5
The catalyst for most superhero stories isn't that they have these amazing powers so they should use them for good but that something tragic happens to them. You know, I don't know if I would trust someone who does what they do not because they think it's the right thing but just because they've had a trauma. If this is the case, seek out a professional. Don't start beating up those who you think don't respect your concept of justice.
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Post by MDG on Mar 23, 2023 9:42:11 GMT -5
I always thought it odd that Superman had to believe he was dying before he thought,"Well, I guess I'll finally get around to digging those irrigation canals in the Sahara."
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 23, 2023 9:43:06 GMT -5
Like, what if I had real superpowers? After doing a test flight for fun, I'd do anything to get rid of them! It would be like having a loaded gun in the house that I never asked for! Nope, the active shooter situation specifically. I would hope that in such a situation I would do what I could to save lives and/or stop the shooter regardless of whether I had superhuman powers or not. It might cost me my own life, but I would never be able to look at myself in a mirror again if I didn't at least try.
Cei-U! I summon my conscience!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 23, 2023 9:52:20 GMT -5
What do you mean as "hero", on a practical level? I sit on a gargoyle waiting for a crime? I rescue cats full time? ;-) On the definition of "hero" depends the answer! I think my answer above may help with that. But I think you probably know I was talking about traditional "comic book superhero" type activity, right? Come on guys, love the philosophy but you know the spirit of the question. If you go stop bank robbers for a living, mask on or off. Think more like a 12 year old, it's healthier. I can't really think like a 12 year old because I stopped being a 12 year old over 40 years ago and I have a whole lot more responsibilities than a 12 year old. I honestly don't know why a person with super powers would decide they need to go stop bank robbers other than hubris or simply being too dumb to understand they don't need to do that. Leaving aside the fact that bank robberies are incredibly rare, there is close to zero need for an individual with super-powers to get involved in one. There are cops and FBI agents that are capable of dealing with them. Bank robberies have one of the highest clearance rates of any major crime. And people are rarely hurt in bank robberies. It would be far more likely to happen is some well-meaning goofus in spandex decided they should intervene. Beyond that, as has been pointed out, it would be virtually impossible to keep a secret identity secret in todays world. Yes, CIA agents and MI-6 agents remain semi-anonymous, but they also get outed...and not infrequently. And they have the entire weight of the government trying to keep them anonymous. A successful super-hero would have every news organization on Earth not to mention ever law enforcement and government agency actively working to figure out who they are. Secret Identities are a cute story-telling device that is a vestige of a simpler time. Kind of like Superman wearing his underwear on the outside.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 23, 2023 9:54:23 GMT -5
Let me add that there's somewhere between zero and no chance that I'd decide to go out and "fight crime." I'd be like young Peter Parker trying to figure out how to cash in on it. Only not as dumb and naïve.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 10:00:24 GMT -5
Another aspect, if you have a secret identity and are keeping it from a spouse or family-relationships are built on trust. Keeping a secret identity form a spouse is a violation of trust on par with infidelity Hmm you say you had a second secret life that you kept secret form me and didn't trust me with?). Have secret identity, then have it revelated, kiss relationship goodbye in most cases. Again an adolescent power fantasy, this isn't a factor, as a consideration of a real world happening it is. In the real world, the kind of person who is likely to be able to pull off a secret identity because of lack of social contacts and norms is more likely to become a super-villain than a super-hero.
-M
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 23, 2023 10:11:09 GMT -5
And, honestly, I'm having a hard time caring if banks are robbed as long as nobody is hurt. The depositers will be fine. And banks are one of the most corrupt, vile and predatory institutions we have.
Now if only the super-villains would start targeting insurance companies.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 10:17:25 GMT -5
And, honestly, I'm having a hard time caring if banks are robbed as long as nobody is hurt. The depositers will be fine. And banks are one of the most corrupt, vile and predatory institutions we have. Now if only the super-villains would start targeting insurance companies. Or pharmaceuticals. -M
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 10:17:32 GMT -5
I think my answer above may help with that. But I think you probably know I was talking about traditional "comic book superhero" type activity, right? Come on guys, love the philosophy but you know the spirit of the question. If you go stop bank robbers for a living, mask on or off. Think more like a 12 year old, it's healthier. I can't really think like a 12 year old because I stopped being a 12 year old over 40 years ago and I have a whole lot more responsibilities than a 12 year old. I honestly don't know why a person with super powers would decide they need to go stop bank robbers other than hubris or simply being too dumb to understand they don't need to do that. Leaving aside the fact that bank robberies are incredibly rare, there is close to zero need for an individual with super-powers to get involved in one. There are cops and FBI agents that are capable of dealing with them. Bank robberies have one of the highest clearance rates of any major crime. And people are rarely hurt in bank robberies. It would be far more likely to happen is some well-meaning goofus in spandex decided they should intervene. Beyond that, as has been pointed out, it would be virtually impossible to keep a secret identity secret in todays world. Yes, CIA agents and MI-6 agents remain semi-anonymous, but they also get outed...and not infrequently. And they have the entire weight of the government trying to keep them anonymous. A successful super-hero would have every news organization on Earth not to mention ever law enforcement and government agency actively working to figure out who they are. Secret Identities are a cute story-telling device that is a vestige of a simpler time. Kind of like Superman wearing his underwear on the outside. My 12 year old comment was a bit tongue in cheek, more because everyone knows the spirit of what I was actually asking. But I'll ask the same question, what would you do in the active shooter situation I provided? Going on "patrol" for bank robbers is one thing, but being thrown into a very world situation you were not seeking out but hold the ability to change the outcome I think would be a big decision. By the way, I'm not looking to judge anyone here (truly), more just exploring how real world situations can challenge our human side no matter how much we state our convictions in principle.
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Post by zaku on Mar 23, 2023 10:24:01 GMT -5
Another aspect, if you have a secret identity and are keeping it from a spouse or family-relationships are built on trust. Keeping a secret identity form a spouse is a violation of trust on par with infidelity Hmm you say you had a second secret life that you kept secret form me and didn't trust me with?). Have secret identity, then have it revelated, kiss relationship goodbye in most cases. Again an adolescent power fantasy, this isn't a factor, as a consideration of a real world happening it is. In the real world, the kind of person who is likely to be able to pull off a secret identity because of lack of social contacts and norms is more likely to become a super-villain than a super-hero. -M Why? I see no problem here. Just apply Silver Age Superman's ethics.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 23, 2023 10:38:53 GMT -5
I can't really think like a 12 year old because I stopped being a 12 year old over 40 years ago and I have a whole lot more responsibilities than a 12 year old. I honestly don't know why a person with super powers would decide they need to go stop bank robbers other than hubris or simply being too dumb to understand they don't need to do that. Leaving aside the fact that bank robberies are incredibly rare, there is close to zero need for an individual with super-powers to get involved in one. There are cops and FBI agents that are capable of dealing with them. Bank robberies have one of the highest clearance rates of any major crime. And people are rarely hurt in bank robberies. It would be far more likely to happen is some well-meaning goofus in spandex decided they should intervene. Beyond that, as has been pointed out, it would be virtually impossible to keep a secret identity secret in todays world. Yes, CIA agents and MI-6 agents remain semi-anonymous, but they also get outed...and not infrequently. And they have the entire weight of the government trying to keep them anonymous. A successful super-hero would have every news organization on Earth not to mention ever law enforcement and government agency actively working to figure out who they are. Secret Identities are a cute story-telling device that is a vestige of a simpler time. Kind of like Superman wearing his underwear on the outside. My 12 year old comment was a bit tongue in cheek, more because everyone knows the spirit of what I was actually asking. But I'll ask the same question, what would you do in the active shooter situation I provided? Going on "patrol" for bank robbers is one thing, but being thrown into a very world situation you were not seeking out but hold the ability to change the outcome I think would be a big decision. By the way, I'm not looking to judge anyone here (truly), more just exploring how real world situations can challenge our human side no matter how much we state our convictions in principle. I don't have an answer for your question because I don't have enough information. Are there already police there? Are they actually competent and going to do something, unlike the police in Uvalde who might as well have been at the donut shop? Do I know the layout of the school (or wherever the shooter is)? Am I going to be confused for the shooter and cause more chaos (prevalent in the "good guy with a gun" scenario)? What are my powers? Am I Superman or Matter-Eater Lad? Which isn't to say that I wouldn't try to do something either way but it would definitely change things. Where is the shooter active? If it's at a Klan meeting I'm not going to stop him. Under the right circumstances, powers or not, I'd try to do something. But the chances are pretty good that either way it could very well make things worse.
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Post by zaku on Mar 23, 2023 10:39:36 GMT -5
I can't really think like a 12 year old because I stopped being a 12 year old over 40 years ago and I have a whole lot more responsibilities than a 12 year old. I honestly don't know why a person with super powers would decide they need to go stop bank robbers other than hubris or simply being too dumb to understand they don't need to do that. Leaving aside the fact that bank robberies are incredibly rare, there is close to zero need for an individual with super-powers to get involved in one. There are cops and FBI agents that are capable of dealing with them. Bank robberies have one of the highest clearance rates of any major crime. And people are rarely hurt in bank robberies. It would be far more likely to happen is some well-meaning goofus in spandex decided they should intervene. Beyond that, as has been pointed out, it would be virtually impossible to keep a secret identity secret in todays world. Yes, CIA agents and MI-6 agents remain semi-anonymous, but they also get outed...and not infrequently. And they have the entire weight of the government trying to keep them anonymous. A successful super-hero would have every news organization on Earth not to mention ever law enforcement and government agency actively working to figure out who they are. Secret Identities are a cute story-telling device that is a vestige of a simpler time. Kind of like Superman wearing his underwear on the outside. My 12 year old comment was a bit tongue in cheek, more because everyone knows the spirit of what I was actually asking. But I'll ask the same question, what would you do in the active shooter situation I provided? Going on "patrol" for bank robbers is one thing, but being thrown into a very world situation you were not seeking out but hold the ability to change the outcome I think would be a big decision. By the way, I'm not looking to judge anyone here (truly), more just exploring how real world situations can challenge our human side no matter how much we state our convictions in principle. Okay, seriously, unless your superpower is literally omnipotence, including the ability to resurrect the dead, do you really think there's anything this hypotetical superhero can do to solve an active shooter's problem? I did a quick search and: 1) Most of the time we hear from an active shooter when the shooting is over or about to end 2) The shootings most of the time last very little, from 10 to 15 minutes. So it's likely that by the time the hero arrives it's all over (unless the hero really is someone on the level of the Pre-Crisis Superman or the Flash). 3) Barring blatant cases of incompetence, the police usually do a great job of stopping them. From Wikipedia: "46 percent of active shooter incidents are ended by the application of force by police or security, 40 percent end in the shooter's suicide, 14 percent of the time the shooter surrenders, and in less than 1 percent of cases the violence ends with the attacker fleeing" So I honestly think that the famous superhero would be of very little use in cases like these, unless we are literally talking about a Superman with super-hearing and super-speed. But who then one could ask why he is wasting time rescuing 10-20 people victims of an "Active Shooter" and not civilians from bombing in Ukraine. What is the substantial difference? EDIT: Slam_Bradley beat me!
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