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Post by arfetto on Mar 26, 2023 14:54:47 GMT -5
It does not fit the "super power" aspect of this topic question, but I made a comic book based on that real-life "superhero" stuff in the news from the early to mid 2010s (inspired by "Phoenix Jones" and all those troubled characters) that focuses on how "well" a secret identity would work out. I watched the Super movie and read the Mark Millar/JRJR Kick-stuff (which was not grounded in realism at all to me haha, but it seems to be the most popular of the "real world superhero" comics) and other things to make sure my project was not too similar to already-tread ground, and I was satisfied after watching and reading those that it was not. The comic is 100 pages long and the storyboards were finished about a year ago, but only about 17 pages are fully inked and lettered so it will still take awhile to be released. I tried my best to approach the concept as logically as possible and come up with scenarios where the vigilantes could at least stop some crime before things go south for them haha (especially in regards to surveillance and the internet, cyber-sleuths, etc). I wish I could share more about it, because this topic is relevant to that project, but then I would spoil all that hard work haha.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2023 15:16:45 GMT -5
I wouldn't have a secret identity per se, I would just be as covert as possible. Going public would definitely put myself and my family at extreme risk, because I'd go after those who are most responsible for suffering in this world, Authority-style. But simply having "power" does not automatically imply "responsibility". Because if that were the case we would all have responsibilities. I mean, I'm sure most people could set aside an hour a week to volunteer at a homeless soup kitchen. It is a "power" within everyone's reach. And it would be nice if they did. But would it be a "responsibility"? Sounds like a variation of The Life You Can SaveNone of us is currently maximizing our potential to do good. But this doesn't invalidate the question at hand, if you allow that your percentage of do-gooding remains more-or-less constant, then awesome powers are going to lead to more good (at least in the eyes of the power-holder). It also seems likely that a gift of "powers", as depicted in comic books, 1) inherently lend themselves to activism more-so than average human ability, and 2) are going to put the recipient in the mind of super-hero style activities, just from pop culture indoctrination. So I maintain that your overall percentage of do-gooding is likely to increase as well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2023 15:21:26 GMT -5
I think it was in Final Crisis where Morrison had a character opine that extreme wealth is the greatest superpower of all. There's some truth to that, especially in the real world. I often cringe at the wasted potential for good that billionaires and multi-millionaires piss away (never mind the active evil some of them engage in). No secret identity necessary for heroes with that kind of power.
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Post by zaku on Mar 26, 2023 15:22:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't have a secret identity per se, I would just be as covert as possible. Going public would definitely put myself and my family at extreme risk, because I'd go after those who are most responsible for suffering in this world, Authority-style. But simply having "power" does not automatically imply "responsibility". Because if that were the case we would all have responsibilities. I mean, I'm sure most people could set aside an hour a week to volunteer at a homeless soup kitchen. It is a "power" within everyone's reach. And it would be nice if they did. But would it be a "responsibility"? Sounds like a variation of The Life You Can SaveNone of us is currently maximizing our potential to do good. But this doesn't invalidate the question at hand, if you allow that your percentage of do-gooding remains more-or-less constant, then awesome powers are going to lead to more good (at least in the eyes of the power-holder). It also seems likely that a gift of "powers", as depicted in comic books, 1) inherently lend themselves to activism more-so than average human ability, and 2) are going to put the recipient in the mind of super-hero style activities, just from pop culture indoctrination. So I maintain that your overall percentage of do-gooding is likely to increase as well. Interesting, thank you!
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Post by tonebone on Mar 26, 2023 17:25:36 GMT -5
Also is a secret identity any different than an undercover law enforcement officer? Wellllll...... A secret identity is to hide your identity from people, theoretically, to protect your friends and family (or at least that's what we're told in the comics). I would guess also so you could get some damn peace and quiet when you were off duty. Undercover work is done to hide the fact you are law enforcement from criminals. Not really to protect friends and family. That is a secondary concern, but not the primary. It's more like an ADDITIONAL disguise to gain the confidence of the criminals. Batman did both, as Bruce Wayne, and Matches Malone. He never (or at least rarely) went "undercover" as Bruce Wayne.
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Post by tonebone on Mar 26, 2023 17:31:36 GMT -5
I think it was in Final Crisis where Morrison had a character opine that extreme wealth is the greatest superpower of all. There's some truth to that, especially in the real world. I often cringe at the wasted potential for good that billionaires and multi-millionaires piss away (never mind the active evil some of them engage in). No secret identity necessary for heroes with that kind of power. Just last year, Elon Musk had his son attacked because some asshat was tracking and revealing the location, in real time, of his car and driver. The assumption was it was him in the car, but it just happened to be his son in the car. One of the "perks" of being world famous and extremely rich.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 26, 2023 17:31:39 GMT -5
Why fight crime at all? Name a power and I can give you a better use. Some people have a natural moral leaning toward helping society by fighting its worst, most destructive instinct / action: criminality.
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Post by tonebone on Mar 26, 2023 17:38:38 GMT -5
But simply having "power" does not automatically imply "responsibility". Because if that were the case we would all have responsibilities. I mean, I'm sure most people could set aside an hour a week to volunteer at a homeless soup kitchen. It is a "power" within everyone's reach. And it would be nice if they did. But would it be a "responsibility"? But that's the rub. That's what makes Spider-Man special. He DOES see it as a responsibility. That's what sets him apart. Superman's powers don't make him a hero. The fact that he could be a god, but chooses to go to a job everyday and treat his "fellow" humans with dignity, not disdain, makes him special. That's the whole point. Everyone has the "power" to save a life by learning CPR, but seeing it as your responsibility, such as a paramedic, lifeguard, etc. pushes you to learn it and use it.
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Post by tonebone on Mar 26, 2023 17:43:45 GMT -5
Why fight crime at all? Name a power and I can give you a better use. True... Interesting observation! But superheroes were born out of crime-ridden, mob-ridden New York of the 1930s. If they had come a decade earlier, they might have been feeding people ala the depression, and a decade later, maybe would have been borne out of war (Some of them still were, but only for the duration of the war, or wrapped up in the trappings of said war, like the Invaders or the All-Star Squadron).
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 26, 2023 19:58:04 GMT -5
Why fight crime at all? Name a power and I can give you a better use. Some people have a natural moral leaning toward helping society by fighting its worst, most destructive instinct / action: criminality. As had been said. There are ways to do much more good. And if you have powers....
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Post by commond on Mar 26, 2023 20:15:04 GMT -5
If criminals murdered your parents or killed the uncle that was like a father to you, you might have a personal stake in it.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 26, 2023 20:17:34 GMT -5
Why fight crime at all? Name a power and I can give you a better use. True... Interesting observation! But superheroes were born out of crime-ridden, mob-ridden New York of the 1930s. If they had come a decade earlier, they might have been feeding people ala the depression, and a decade later, maybe would have been borne out of war (Some of them still were, but only for the duration of the war, or wrapped up in the trappings of said war, like the Invaders or the All-Star Squadron). Except that superheroes weren't entirely born out of crime, in New York, in the 30s. That's a bit narrow of a stimulus for superheroes. You have mythology adding certain elements, adventure novels, science fiction stories, fantasy stories and comedies. You already had costumed heroes fighting crime, in the pulps and in newspaper adventure strips. Superman was a mixture of pulp hero and sci-fi hero, with an added touch of wish fulfillment that appealed to kids, while the pulps and newspaper strips were aimed either exclusively to adults or primarily for adults. That more kid-friendly focus was a revelation and kids responded and publishers took notice. Most of those publishers were putting out pulp magazines, so they put out superheroes and those same genres. The more creative ones mixed crime stories with fantasy stories, sci-fi, comedies, even social commentary. The lesser ones stuck with what sold in the pulps or just copied what the successful comics were doing, or both. You do have heroes born of wartime patriotic fervor, who lasted as long as the war did. You do get stories about feeding the hungry or helping the poor, in many superhero comics. It's just that the crimefighting became more and more a central part of things, but it was a long evolution, continuing through the Silver and into the Bronze Ages. Because the colorful villains proved more popular than the street thugs, the crime tended to get broader, depending on the feature. As kids became a smaller and smaller part of the readership (or, maybe younger kids), the crime got more serious. The Flash fought criminals, but they were colorful thieves, with gimmicks. By the 80s, he is an urban hunter, because no one was writing to a young audience, who could appreciate trick arrows. The concept of the secret identity didn't always revolve around protecting loved ones. Sometimes it was about keeping your activities secret from your boss, or because the hero and the later-ego were different people (like Captain Marvel & Billy Batson).
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 26, 2023 20:31:59 GMT -5
If criminals murdered your parents or killed the uncle that was like a father to you, you might have a personal stake in it. Which was more often the case in superhero comics. Most had a personal reason for becoming a hero and wearing a mask. Very few suddenly got super powers and decided to fight crime. Batman developed his identity out of a desire for justice, after his parents' murder. Wonder Woman is sent to aid the Allies, after learning about world events, thanks to Steve Trevor ending up on Paradise Island. Peter Parker loses Uncle ben, Matt Murdock's father is murdered by criminals. Even others, like Barry Allen, have a personal stake in what they do. Barry is a police scientist and applies his new abilities to police work, though he adopts a masked disguise both to continue to work with science, in his day job and to emulate his hero, the original Flash, whose adventures he read in comics. Hal Jordan is picked to join an intergalactic peace force and given the uniform and weapons. It just happens to include a mask. Steve Rogers becomes the perfect subject for an experiment to create a super soldier, to fight in a war, who is also a patriotic symbol. The mask lets him be a symbol and not just Steve Rogers, US Army (private or captain).
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Post by zaku on Mar 27, 2023 2:03:11 GMT -5
It does not fit the "super power" aspect of this topic question, but I made a comic book based on that real-life "superhero" stuff in the news from the early to mid 2010s (inspired by "Phoenix Jones" and all those troubled characters) that focuses on how "well" a secret identity would work out. I watched the Super movie and read the Mark Millar/JRJR Kick-stuff (which was not grounded in realism at all to me haha, but it seems to be the most popular of the "real world superhero" comics) and other things to make sure my project was not too similar to already-tread ground, and I was satisfied after watching and reading those that it was not. The comic is 100 pages long and the storyboards were finished about a year ago, but only about 17 pages are fully inked and lettered so it will still take awhile to be released. I tried my best to approach the concept as logically as possible and come up with scenarios where the vigilantes could at least stop some crime before things go south for them haha (especially in regards to surveillance and the internet, cyber-sleuths, etc). I wish I could share more about it, because this topic is relevant to that project, but then I would spoil all that hard work haha. It sound interesting! I don't know if there is a comic out there that truly realistically tells what could happen if someone decides to put on a colorful costume and fight crime. Probably because in reality someone like that would end up very bad already on the first night on patrol.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2023 4:04:34 GMT -5
Why fight crime at all? Name a power and I can give you a better use. Some people have a natural moral leaning toward helping society by fighting its worst, most destructive instinct / action: criminality.
I fully agree. Despite my many attempts to steer this thread away from rationalization of even being in the heroing business in the real world, I fear it's a lost cause so I plan to abandon ship and leave this thread to the Wild West. Again, thank you to those who engaged in the topic, I thought that part was interesting discussion. But before I go, I'd like to make a statement on why I've been so fussy about not wandering too far from the actual topic. You can't discuss some of the "why even be a crime fighter" (one individual has now said that 4 times in this thread) without it taking on a political nature. You inevitably wander into controversial territory such as police defunding, current military strife in the world, and other topics that will quickly go off the rails (and it will be the usual same group of a few folks high fiving each other while many others are stunned that even flies here). Sorry to call out the elephant in the room, but it needs to be said. Perhaps it's my fault, I "do" think of some of these questions more like a kid just having some simple light-hearted fun. To be honest though, I never assumed someone would actually rationalize the whole reality of superheroes in the actual world, to me that seems much sillier since OF COURSE it would not play out like the comic books. I didn't think any of that needed to be explained...it was literally just "if fiction was real", what would you do? Which implicitly means ain't never gonna happen, just relax and flow with the spirit of the question if you're in the mood to have a little light fun. Anyhow, that's all I had to say.
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