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Post by badwolf on Feb 8, 2023 19:43:00 GMT -5
Taskmaster; his first appearance story is one of the favorites from my childhood. Have to be honest other than his first appearance in 195-196 of Avengers he never did much for me ( which kills me because his powers were so cool) other than being created by GP. After 196 , I can’t remember his next appearance. I think his next appearance was in Marvel Team-Up #103 (Spider-Man & Ant-Man), and then sometime in the 220s of Avengers.
That might be all I've read of him, but maybe less is more. I know I get very sick of overused villains like Ultron.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 8, 2023 20:18:57 GMT -5
The Grey Gargoyle is a cut above " C" list. He took on Thor , Iron Man and the entire Avengers at one point. If there was an Another option, I might go for the Grim Reaper. It's always exciting when he appears.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 8, 2023 20:41:41 GMT -5
I went with Grey Gargoyle just cos his moustache amuses me. I think my favorite thing about the Grey Gargoyle is that he’s French.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 8, 2023 20:43:18 GMT -5
I voted for Grey Gargoyle but I'd have chosen "Other" had such an option been available since my favorite Marvel C-lister is The Toad. Cei-U! I summon the wart remover! I like the Toad too. If I was writing comics and I decided to bring back the Toad ... I have no idea what I’d do with him.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 8, 2023 23:17:42 GMT -5
Who makes the list that tells us they are A, B, C, etc.? And where do we find the alleged list?
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Post by berkley on Feb 9, 2023 1:30:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm wondering what A-, B-, or C-lister mean in this context too. And does it keep going all the way down to Z-lister?
But I can name a couple of my favourite obscure villains: Stallior and Leonus, two Inhumans who were henchmen for Maximus in I think the Hulk vs Inhumans Annual story drawn by Marie Severin:
Stallior was a centaur with a kind of ancient Greek or Roman armour, and Marie Severin's design made him look very impressive to me as a kid, visually. Leonus, as his name would suggest, was a lion-like character with retractable claws, which I think is a good character concept - like Wolverine only better (because he isn't Wolverine).
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Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 9, 2023 5:20:23 GMT -5
Zom.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 9, 2023 6:18:36 GMT -5
Who makes the list that tells us they are A, B, C, etc.? And where do we find the alleged list? I'll make an attempt: A Listers are villains that are intelligent , have vast resources and have power sets that allow them to take on multiple people at the same time EX: Dr. Doom, Magneto, Thanos, Molecule Man, Darkseid B Listers Might have a great power set but lack the vision to want more than just money Ex: Graviton, Grey Gargoyle, Dr. Light, The Parasite C and D listers are in it just for money. They might actually be good characters but might end up being just the muscle sometimes. Or they might have a limited power set and end up fighting the street level type characters Ex: Deathstroke the Terminator, Taskmaster, The Kingpin, Bullseye
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Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 9, 2023 6:41:40 GMT -5
I'll make an attempt: A Listers are villains that are intelligent , have vast resources and have power sets that allow them to take on multiple people at the same time EX: Dr. Doom, Magneto, Thanos, Molecule Man, Darkseid B Listers Might have a great power set but lack the vision to want more than just money Ex: Graviton, Grey Gargoyle, Dr. Light, The Parasite C and D listers are in it just for money. They might actually be good characters but might end up being just the muscle sometimes. Or they might have a limited power set and end up fighting the street level type characters Ex: Deathstroke the Terminator, Taskmaster, The Kingpin, Bullseye You know, I often can't tell - esp. given the avatar you're currently using - if your posts are serious or tongue-in-cheek.
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Post by commond on Feb 9, 2023 6:42:01 GMT -5
I'm fairly sure the Kingpin is either an A lister or a B lister.
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Post by Dizzy D on Feb 9, 2023 6:44:59 GMT -5
As A-, B- , C- and Z-list etc. does not have an official definition, but these are the ones I use (note that ranking for heroes, villains and teams have different standards) and characters can slide from A- to B- or from B- to C- and vice versa in time:
A-list: The easy ones. These are the characters that sell comics. For heroes, usually characters with long running solo-series (even through changes of the creative team) or the ones that are the core of big superhero teams, generally they will have a lot of guest appearances in other titles. We know pretty much everything about them, their name, their history, their powers, their personality etc. For villains: the ones that have strong ties to a specific hero or team, but will also appear in other titles as they are an established threat in the wider world. The hero will know who they are even if they have never personally fought them. Generally when they appear in other titles, it's made a big deal: how will hero X manage to get out of this? We know a lot about them, they have clear motivations, powers and a set personality.
B-list: The backbone of the comic universe: Can support their own ongoing series (though the creative team plays a big part in how long those series will last and often won't survive when the team changes) or are mainstays on big superhero teams, but can be absent for a longer period of the title without the title suffering in sales/popularity. We know just about anything about them as well. For villains, they often fight the hero, but the hero does not consider them their biggest problem (even though they are still a threat). Will occassionally appear in other titles and tend to be more of the villain-for-hire in those appearances. We know a lot about them, but they can surprise us. Also their personality can be a lot more fluid over their appearances.
C-list: The lower ranks of the characters that still have a lot of appearances. Move around a lot usually between books, if they have had a solo-series, it usually is just a short-lived one or had 1 very popular run, but since then nothing much. Fill in a gap on a superhero team for a bit, but quite often are killed of for dramatic effect when they do. We generally only know a bit about them; a power of a personal trait, but little to nothing about their personal backstory (unless its their first appearance and a writer intends for them to be a bigger character than they turn out to become). For villains: Move around a lot as well, usually fill in spots on supervillain teams. They can be a threat, but usually need numbers, a specific plot device, a hostage or something like that to make the fight interesting. Usually just a costume with a power. Maybe some motivation.
Z-list: Have only a handful of appearances, we know nothing about them. Are not even used as cannon fodder as the readers generally have no personal attachment to them. For villains: Most of the heroes won't even know their name, even the ones that have fought them before.
There are some grey areas.
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 9, 2023 6:55:03 GMT -5
I voted for Grey Gargoyle but I'd have chosen "Other" had such an option been available since my favorite Marvel C-lister is The Toad. Cei-U! I summon the wart remover! ?? Really? Really. Something about a sycophantic little hunchback in medieval garb whose superpower is jumping just gets to me. When I'd read my comics aloud as a kid, I always gave Toad the voice of Peter Lorre. Also, I loved drawing him.
Nobody wrote him better than Roy Thomas, who had him find the courage to stand up to Magneto but revert to his old sniveling ways when faced with being in over his head in Arkon's sword-and-scifi world. I was terribly disappointed with what Steve Englehart did with him in Avengers. I thought he missed the whole point of the character.
Cei-U! The defense rests!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2023 7:05:09 GMT -5
Grey Gargoyle. I still am amused by how his powers had little-to-no effect on the Hulk:
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Post by zaku on Feb 9, 2023 7:40:42 GMT -5
For that list, Taskmaster. In reality, Count Nefaria, Mentallo & The Fixer, Stilt-Man, and the Masked Marauder (he was Cylon before Cylon was cool!). Didn't count Nefaria like humiliate the Avengers once?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2023 7:59:42 GMT -5
For that list, Taskmaster. In reality, Count Nefaria, Mentallo & The Fixer, Stilt-Man, and the Masked Marauder (he was Cylon before Cylon was cool!). Count Nefaria is a C-lister?! How dare you, sir? That’d be like claiming 1987-1990 Rick Rude was a C-lister in the WWF. Like Nefaria, 1987-90 Rude may not have reached the upper echelons but he was no C-lister.
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