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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2022 7:40:09 GMT -5
I know that when you read comics, you have to “play by the rules”. Or with any fictional universe. I accepted the likes of Skeletor always escaping in Masters of the Universe, or Blofeld avoiding justice in the 007 franchise (for a while, anyway, I presume that unnamed villain with the white cat in For Your Eyes Only was meant to be Blofeld).
But can it get wearisome when a villain repeatedly evades justice? I do have an example in mind: Lex Luthor post-Crisis.
Now, I did like capitalist Luthor. I thought he was an excellent character, and that the likes of Byrne and Wolfman did a great job with him. I enjoyed so much of his dialogue, such as him saying something like, “My employees should know that my merest words are not suggestions, but commands.” I enjoyed a lot of what he got up to, such as his disdain for Metallo and his attempt to work out what the connection between Clark Kent and Superman is.
But I have to say, over time, I did get a bit deflated about him continually evading justice. Bizarrely, I wasn’t bothered about the likes of Doctor Doom doing so, probably because a) his diplomatic immunity warranted it, and b) he had a certain code of honour, it being more of a personal grudge with the FF. However, Luthor ruined lives, had people killed (including his own henchmen) and did some evil acts. And I have to say, after about 3-4 years of reading that, I felt a bit deflated that he hadn’t yet been placed in a cell.
Now, I know that the likes of Byrne would tell me I needed to move on and that I’d been reading comics for too long (I think he said something similar when they complained about Parker’s perpetual bad luck), but I see nothing wrong in reading comics forever. Sure, a newcomer at the time wouldn’t feel as wearisome about Luthor, but I wanted to see him face justice; by the early-to-mid 90s, I wasn’t collecting Superman on a regular basis, so I’ve no idea if Luthor ever faced jail.
I think part of being wearisome is a natural desire for justice. We feel it in the real world. We want certain people to be punished after doing something wrong. Comics are escapism, but there have definitely been times when I have felt strongly that a character’s time to face a courtroom/jail is way overdue.
Any thoughts?
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 26, 2022 8:56:31 GMT -5
driver1980, the comic book legal and penal systems have the same relationship with their counterparts here on Earth-Sorta Prime as does comic book science. Exhibit B: the Joker.
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Post by foxley on Nov 26, 2022 9:04:32 GMT -5
Doom bothers me a lot more than Luthor does. Honestly, how stupid are the heroes of the Marvel that they are always surprised when it turns out to be a Doombot, despite the fact that this what has happened every single time they have faced him in past? Does no hero in the MU possess x-ray vision or something that would allow them to check?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 26, 2022 9:41:56 GMT -5
driver1980 , the comic book legal and penal systems have the same relationship with their counterparts here on Earth-Sorta Prime as does comic book science. I blame transistors.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2022 10:43:18 GMT -5
Justice is one thing, vengeance is another. We are a very angry society these days, some of the comments in this thread sadly reflect that.
I still view comic books as escapism from the real world muck, and the "never-ending" fight against some of the major recurring foes is that "Valhallan" concept of perpetual conflict and combat. Yes, or course real world "ethics" questions of higher justice don't always hold up in the comic book mythos (sometimes markedly so). But the stories would lose entertainment value rather quickly.
I think it gets a little tougher for some to rationalize comic book entertainment later in life. You go from being a kid saying, "Doctor Doom is back, cool!" as a positive thing because he's a cool baddie to "I am frustrated by the lack of long-term accountability" with those older eyes.
You simply don't have the decades of repetition when you are a young reader, nor are generally as jaded as folks tend to get later in life. I know this won't generate the big "likes" responses (I'm getting used to that), but I do believe a lot of times there's more an element of "what you project" into the material.
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 26, 2022 10:44:00 GMT -5
Superhero comics exist is a strange netherworld; one the one hand, they are all about character / relationship progression, but in order to maintain interest based on loved and/or accepted creations, they remain in a certain narrative vacuum in order to play on those loved and/or accepted creations time after time, hence the reason few major super-villains are ever killed. they have to come back for more.
In a way, its like the original run of Archie comics; fantasy stories aside, Archie could not reach the point of settling on Veronica; he had to be interested in Betty, too, otherwise, the eternal triangle would not be eternal after all. Same with their time as students at Riverdale; their semesters go on and on and on, with only scant references to graduation or what the students wanted to do after high school. The format has to keep the world in the same, expected place.
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 26, 2022 11:38:26 GMT -5
driver1980 , the comic book legal and penal systems have the same relationship with their counterparts here on Earth-Sorta Prime as does comic book science. I blame transistors. Yeah, and when you hit them with cosmic rays, hoo-boy, have you got trouble!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2022 12:54:32 GMT -5
Justice is one thing, vengeance is another. We are a very angry society these days, some of the comments in this thread sadly reflect that. I still view comic books as escapism from the real world muck, and the "never-ending" fight against some of the major recurring foes is that "Valhallan" concept of perpetual conflict and combat. Yes, or course real world "ethics" questions of higher justice don't always hold up in the comic book mythos (sometimes markedly so). But the stories would lose entertainment value rather quickly. I think it gets a little tougher for some to rationalize comic book entertainment later in life. You go from being a kid saying, "Doctor Doom is back, cool!" as a positive thing because he's a cool baddie to "I am frustrated by the lack of long-term accountability" with those older eyes. You simply don't have the decades of repetition when you are a young reader, nor are generally as jaded as folks tend to get later in life. I know this won't generate the big "likes" responses (I'm getting used to that), but I do believe a lot of times there's more an element of "what you project" into the material. You’re right, we didn’t have the decades of repetition as kids. It frustrates me at times. I’m the same with wrestling. I wish I could go back to enjoying it when I didn’t know backstage/insider stuff, when I didn’t know about real-life feuds between wrestlers, where I could just enjoy a match. It is peculiar to me that I didn’t mind the likes of Skeletor and Mum-Ra evading justice indefinitely. I think with Superman, it was a case of being so used to seeing the Man of Steel defeat/imprison all of his foes. What I *wish* I could do (with wrestling and comics) is to just enjoy living in the moment. Read the comic and then discard/save it. Don’t try and be cohesive and judge it in its entirety.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2022 13:09:53 GMT -5
Justice is one thing, vengeance is another. We are a very angry society these days, some of the comments in this thread sadly reflect that. I still view comic books as escapism from the real world muck, and the "never-ending" fight against some of the major recurring foes is that "Valhallan" concept of perpetual conflict and combat. Yes, or course real world "ethics" questions of higher justice don't always hold up in the comic book mythos (sometimes markedly so). But the stories would lose entertainment value rather quickly. I think it gets a little tougher for some to rationalize comic book entertainment later in life. You go from being a kid saying, "Doctor Doom is back, cool!" as a positive thing because he's a cool baddie to "I am frustrated by the lack of long-term accountability" with those older eyes. You simply don't have the decades of repetition when you are a young reader, nor are generally as jaded as folks tend to get later in life. I know this won't generate the big "likes" responses (I'm getting used to that), but I do believe a lot of times there's more an element of "what you project" into the material. You’re right, we didn’t have the decades of repetition as kids. It frustrates me at times. I’m the same with wrestling. I wish I could go back to enjoying it when I didn’t know backstage/insider stuff, when I didn’t know about real-life feuds between wrestlers, where I could just enjoy a match. It is peculiar to me that I didn’t mind the likes of Skeletor and Mum-Ra evading justice indefinitely. I think with Superman, it was a case of being so used to seeing the Man of Steel defeat/imprison all of his foes. What I *wish* I could do (with wrestling and comics) is to just enjoy living in the moment. Read the comic and then discard/save it. Don’t try and be cohesive and judge it in its entirety. Oh yeah, I can relate to all this! I always think of the Foreigner song "Feels Like the First Time", well beyond what the song is actually referencing lol. Everything fresh and exciting...no "burden" of experience and insight to weigh down the good times if you will. "Enjoy living in the moment"...I'm chasing that as well my friend!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2022 13:13:16 GMT -5
I’m gonna try - or do.
It’s not a perfect comparison with what we’re discussing here, but at times, many wrestling fans, including myself, have got hung up on win/loss records, feeling the stupid need to pontificate on wins and losses for a predetermined quasi-sport. For goodness’ sake, as a kid (and even young adult), I didn’t care how many matches a wrestler won or lost, I just enjoyed each match on its own merits.
I’d like to be that way with comics. Archie Comics tweeted something a while back: Everything is canon, nothing is canon. Enjoy (I may be paraphrasing) That’s what I want to live by.
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Post by berkley on Nov 26, 2022 19:38:59 GMT -5
Doom bothers me a lot more than Luthor does. Honestly, how stupid are the heroes of the Marvel that they are always surprised when it turns out to be a Doombot, despite the fact that this what has happened every single time they have faced him in past? Does no hero in the MU possess x-ray vision or something that would allow them to check? Or if not x-ray vision, what about all the telepaths running around in the MU?
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 26, 2022 20:53:33 GMT -5
I find the constant need to inject politics into threads wearisome.
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Post by kirby101 on Nov 26, 2022 21:01:04 GMT -5
I find the constant need to inject politics into threads wearisome. It was meant as a joke.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 26, 2022 21:10:43 GMT -5
I find the constant need to inject politics into threads wearisome. It was meant as a joke. It happens in many of the threads in this forum.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 26, 2022 22:52:46 GMT -5
It happens in many of the threads in this forum. Compared to almost anyplace else on the internet it happens incredibly rarely.
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