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Post by impulse on Nov 8, 2022 17:17:09 GMT -5
8.5. A bold game-changer, but possibly the only time in X-Men history where a major storyline should have been made longer. There was so much more to do here. On the other hand, Claremont could not help but revisit, and results were...mixed...at best. Maybe less is more? But yeah, they could have spent a few years there for my money.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,709
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Post by shaxper on Nov 8, 2022 23:05:26 GMT -5
8.5. A bold game-changer, but possibly the only time in X-Men history where a major storyline should have been made longer. There was so much more to do here. On other hand, Claremont could not help but revisit, and results were...mixed...at best. Maybe less is more? But yeah, they could have spent a few years there for my money. Two schticks Claremont could keep going back to without ever losing my interest: alternate futures and the Shi'ar Empire (absolutely including The Brood). Intellectually, I know most of those stories are bad, but emotionally, I'm such a sucker for them. How many alternate future kids does Scott Summers have at this point, anyway?
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Post by Dizzy D on Nov 9, 2022 5:18:09 GMT -5
On other hand, Claremont could not help but revisit, and results were...mixed...at best. Maybe less is more? But yeah, they could have spent a few years there for my money. Two schticks Claremont could keep going back to without ever losing my interest: alternate futures and the Shi'ar Empire (absolutely including The Brood). Intellectually, I know most of those stories are bad, but emotionally, I'm such a sucker for them. How many alternate future kids does Scott Summers have at this point, anyway? I think 4 if you count Nate Grey and Cable as two different people.
(Rachel, Nate Grey, Cable, Ruby)
There may be some more in one-offs, but these are the only ones that had multiple appearances in my head and I don't think we'll see Ruby again (daughter of Scott and Emma in Peter David's X-Factor). Then again I didn't think any of the X-Men 2099 would show up again and some of those characters are currently appearing as well.
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Post by impulse on Nov 9, 2022 9:52:10 GMT -5
Slim, you old dirty dog.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 9, 2022 10:48:13 GMT -5
Dirty ol' dog indeed!
I'm not even sure that Askani wasn't supposed to be Scott and Psylocke's daughter when she was first introduced. (That was before the whole "clan Askani" business was developed).
Coming from an undetermined future, Askani referred to Scott as "our father" early on while talking to baby Christopher, and she seemed to wield the same psychic knife as Psylocke. Plus, she resembled her (although that could be due to Whilce Portacio's style). Finally, at the time, writers were trying to spice things up by having Betsy hit on Scott.
The National Inquirer should look into it!
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Post by tonebone on Nov 9, 2022 11:05:31 GMT -5
This was before alternate reality stories were played out to death. Absolutely! Well said. Like wrestling (why does Hell in a Cell need to be an entire PPV rather than an occasional gimmick match?), a lot in comics has been played out to death. I did quite enjoy DC’s Metal storyline from a few years ago, but then now - and even today - it seems we’re getting countless spin-offs/tie-ins to that story, I’m still waiting for “Elongated Man: Metal” or something. Less is more. Days of Future Past was a nice, digestible meal. Today any concept or storyline has to be a 6-course meal. Ha! Yeah it takes 6 courses to make a trade paperback!
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 9, 2022 11:27:02 GMT -5
I agree with codystarbuck... I was never wow'd by it and I didn't dislike it. Of course I read it much later than when it came out and read it in a TPB. But I already saw the story played out in a two part episode of X-Men:TAS so I knew the premise, and the show closely followed the comics, and I saw it first before I read the comics. So I will give it a 5.
For me my favorite older X-Men story is Uncanny #161-165. The Brood are like the Aliens of X-Men and I always like reading stories with them in it.
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Post by spoon on Nov 9, 2022 12:50:11 GMT -5
For me my favorite older X-Men story is Uncanny #161-165. The Brood are like the Aliens of X-Men and I always like reading stories with them in it. It's interesting how some major stories get the TPB treatment and have names retroactively, while other fly under the radar. I really like the Brood arc too, and it's seems like the type of story that should've gotten its own standalone TPB, rather than waiting years until it was reach by Masterworks and Essentials. It doesn't even have an Epic Collection yet. Maybe it's because it's really two parts with some of the plotlines set up in the 150s.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 9, 2022 12:59:52 GMT -5
For me my favorite older X-Men story is Uncanny #161-165. The Brood are like the Aliens of X-Men and I always like reading stories with them in it. It's interesting how some major stories get the TPB treatment and have names retroactively, while other fly under the radar. I really like the Brood arc too, and it's seems like the type of story that should've gotten its own standalone TPB, rather than waiting years until it was reach by Masterworks and Essentials. It doesn't even have an Epic Collection yet. Maybe it's because it's really two parts with some of the plotlines set up in the 150s. Well if the original story was only single issues than there's more to it. The description on my CLZ app says it collects Uncanny X-Men #138-143 and X-Men Annual #4. I haven't read it in so long that don't know what all the additional material had to do with the original two issues.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 9, 2022 14:35:06 GMT -5
I remember reading those two issues when they came out... my friends and I were all like "Oh, wow! That's what Wolverine is going to look like when he's old! And Kitty as an adult! And Franklin, too! We knew him as a kid! And is that redhead the daughter of Scott and Jean? And look! Magneto isn't a bad guy anymore? This is so awesome!"
Nowadays we've seen such ideas used again and again, but back then they felt really, really fresh.
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Post by spoon on Nov 9, 2022 18:25:43 GMT -5
It's interesting how some major stories get the TPB treatment and have names retroactively, while other fly under the radar. I really like the Brood arc too, and it's seems like the type of story that should've gotten its own standalone TPB, rather than waiting years until it was reach by Masterworks and Essentials. It doesn't even have an Epic Collection yet. Maybe it's because it's really two parts with some of the plotlines set up in the 150s. Well if the original story was only single issues than there's more to it. The description on my CLZ app says it collects Uncanny X-Men #138-143 and X-Men Annual #4. I haven't read it in so long that don't know what all the additional material had to do with the original two issues. No, I meant the Brood storyline. I don't think that's ever been its own TPB (rather than part of something like an Essential or Masterworks).
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Post by spoon on Nov 9, 2022 18:37:26 GMT -5
Days of Future Past is rightfully a classic. I think doing it as a two-parter works really well. Even though much of the story was the present-day scenes, it would've kind of derailed things to spend too many issues in a potential future. It's also good to leave some things unsaid rather than having to spell out every detail about how the characters who were already dead had died, etc.
Having said that, I don't mind that Claremont later revisited it by bringing Rachel into the past (with Nimrod chasing). That led to good plotlines and an interesting character. Also, the original DoFP story left the door open by having Senator Kelly decide to go ahead with Project: Wideawake, a page that's omitted from the thin two-issue TPB (leaving a more pat ending). There's also the question about whether changing the past really changes the future or simply creates an additional timeline with the old timeline existing in a different reality.
I do think the impact can be diluted by going to the well too much, but I don't think what Claremont did in his original run was too much.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 9, 2022 21:11:15 GMT -5
while alot of the stuff that came after this was not great, the actual story was great.. this and Future Imperfect are my favorite alternate Universe stories.
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Post by berkley on Nov 10, 2022 16:47:11 GMT -5
Can't vote in this one: I don't recall the details of #141, though I think I liked it at the time. Then #142 didn't come to our area so I missed the other part of the story, as well as #143, Byrne's last issue. I did keep buy X-Men sporadically for a few more months but gave it up after #150, I think through a combination of feeling a bit tired of the writing for series and not feeling the artwork after Byrne left and then Cockrum. I didn't think either the writing or the art suddenly became terrible, but both felt increasingly average to me and, since I had never been a huge fan of the characters themselves, average wasn't enough to hold my interest.
edit: forgot to add - think it should lose points for Claremont stealing the title from the Moody Blues album.
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Post by badwolf on Nov 10, 2022 18:11:13 GMT -5
edit: forgot to add - think it should lose points for Claremont stealing the title from the Moody Blues album.
You must really hate Bill Mantlo.
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