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Post by dabellwrites on Oct 31, 2022 14:54:25 GMT -5
The Comic Book Historian uploaded a ton of interviews from past creators on their YouTube channel. I've watched a few. While watching the Julie Schwartz interview, I noticed when he discussed reviving superheroes, he used my ideas, my stories, my plots. I'm sure Mr. Schwartz played a role in the process, but taking so much credit makes it seem like the writers were just there to type words. The idea can explain why so many comics back then was exposition heavy. However, in Carmine Infantino's interview, he credits Barry Allen's creation all on Robert Kanigher.
So, what did writers do back then? Julie Schwartz mentioned they eventually began drawing the cover first then the story was written afterwards, based on the cover.
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 31, 2022 15:42:45 GMT -5
This is not an easy question to answer but here goes:
First, you need to understand that in many ways DC was not one comic book line in the Silver Age but multiple lines, each under the control of and reflecting the personality of its editor. Mort Weisinger edited the Superman titles (Action, Adventure, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane, Superboy, Superman), Jack Schiff the Batman books (Batman, Detective, World's Finest), Challengers of the Unknown, and some sci-fi/horror anthologies (House of Mystery, House of Secrets, My Greatest Adventure, Tales of the Unexpected), Robert Kanigher edited Wonder Woman and the war books (All-American Men of War, G.I. Combat, Our Army at War, Our Fighting Forces, Star-Spangled War Stories), Julius Schwartz the sci-fi comics Strange Adventures and Mystery in Space plus his super-hero books (Flash, Green Lantern, Justice League), with others handling the romance, funny animal, and teen humor books. Each editor had their own slate of staff and freelance artists and writers, with little overlap between them. Crossovers between different editorial feifdoms were exceedingly rare (JLA and World's Finest being the exceptions).
Second, yes, it was very common for editors to take an active role in plotting the stories in their comics. Schwartz certainly did this, and had ever since joining the company in 1944. Weisinger did, too. And they often initiated new series and characters, working closely with the assigned writer and artist in fleshing out the premise. So Julie's crediting himself with co-creating his Silver Age heroes is legit, if somewhat exaggerated.
Finally, it was standard DC editorial policy in the late '50s and early '60s to create striking covers for their books that would capture the attention of young browsers, *then* create a story to match. They pretty much all did that, but Schwartz and Weisinger were the most adept at it.
Does that help?
Cei-U! I summon the history lesson!
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 31, 2022 21:21:34 GMT -5
At the same time, the writers were heavily involved in creation, especially John Broome, on the Flash and Green Lantern; and Gardner Fox, on Adam Strange, Justice League and Hawkman and Atom.
In regards to Schwartz, if you read Mike Richardson and Steve Duin's Comic Books: Between the Panels, there are several quotes from Gil Kane about Julie and some of the credit he took, and his general demeanor. Let's put it this way, Kane was not flattering. So, there are people who would dispute Schwartz's direct role in the creation of characters and stories or the level of his role. As with most creative things, success has many fathers and failure is an orphan.
Arnold Drake is another important writer there.
The problem with the credit for some of the writers boils down to politics, as much as ego. There was an attempt to form a guild or union at DC and those involved found themselves fired, blackballed or pushed out. Now, it isn't exactly cut and dried, as there is a mix of the attempt to organize for better pay, medical benefits and partial ownership of things they created. Irwin Donenfeld and Jack Liebowitz tried to keep the writer rates low and tried to play one against the other, when they tried to get raises. That led to efforts to unioninze, with a group that included Arnold Drake, Gardner Fox, John Broome, Ed Herron, and Otto Binder, with some others in and out. Drake was one of the real instigators. Drake was pretty much fired and went to work for Marvel. Broome was living in Paris, but his DC output dwindled to nothing. Fox disappeared from DC, too, as did Binder, though he also had a daughter who was killed in a car crash. They tried to get the artists involved, to create a united front; but, Kurt Schaffenberger was the only one deeply involved, out of solidarity with Binder. Carmine Infantino attended a couple of meetings, but was wooing Liebowitz for the Publisher job, according to Bob Haney. The artists got pretty good rates, especially in relation to the writers, so they didn't join up. Ageism was a big factor in the writers being pushed out, as most had been working since the 40s and many of the editors wanted younger talent, with Joe Orlando saying he didn't want writers over 35 years-old, according to Drake. In 1968, it came to a head and most of those guys were soon out and you see the first wave of young fan writers, like Mike Friedrich and Denny O'Neil, then guys like Steve Skeates, who Dick Giordano brought over from Charlton, along with Steve Ditko and Jim Aparo (and Frank McLaughlin). Bill Finger and Bob Haney had been involved and Finger was pretty well pushed out, but alcoholism was also a factor in his decline. Haney stuck around to the early-mid 70s.
The editors were basically feudal lords and their creative teams were pretty much their serfs, working exclusively for them, until after this event, in 1968 (more or less). The influx of new editors and young talent changed a lot of that, as did the purge of the writers, around this time. Weisinger was pretty universally described as a miserable SOB. Kanigher had a massive ego and was not well liked by many and Schwartz had his detractors, too, though some, like Elliot Maggin, said he was blunt and brutal, but he, personally, never had a problem with it. Schiff is the one I have read least about, in terms of personality and professional relationships. There was an old story, largely debunked, of Alex Toth being disrespected and receiving a power play from either Julie Schwartz or Robert Kanigher (I have heard both), about withholding a paycheck due him, for a job and he dangled them out a window, until he got his check. Like I say, it was largely debunked; but, I have heard other stories about Schwartz and Kanigher making people wait for checks while they played cards, just to show them who was boss.
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 1, 2022 4:49:41 GMT -5
Everything cody just said is correct, except that Bob Haney wrote for DC until 1981, not "the early-mid '70s."
Cei-U! I summon the footnote!
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Post by tonebone on Nov 3, 2022 10:37:37 GMT -5
The editors were basically feudal lords and their creative teams were pretty much their serfs, working exclusively for them, until after this event, in 1968 (more or less). The influx of new editors and young talent changed a lot of that, as did the purge of the writers, around this time. Weisinger was pretty universally described as a miserable SOB. Kanigher had a massive ego and was not well liked by many and Schwartz had his detractors, too, though some, like Elliot Maggin, said he was blunt and brutal, but he, personally, never had a problem with it. Schiff is the one I have read least about, in terms of personality and professional relationships. There was an old story, largely debunked, of Alex Toth being disrespected and receiving a power play from either Julie Schwartz or Robert Kanigher (I have heard both), about withholding a paycheck due him, for a job and he dangled them out a window, until he got his check. Like I say, it was largely debunked; but, I have heard other stories about Schwartz and Kanigher making people wait for checks while they played cards, just to show them who was boss. This was really the end of the "Mad Men" era of cigar-chomping, testosterone-fueled, good-'ol-boy's-club editors... They must have really resented the younger fan/creator hippies who came along to replace them.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 3, 2022 11:21:56 GMT -5
The editors were basically feudal lords and their creative teams were pretty much their serfs, working exclusively for them, until after this event, in 1968 (more or less). The influx of new editors and young talent changed a lot of that, as did the purge of the writers, around this time. Weisinger was pretty universally described as a miserable SOB. Kanigher had a massive ego and was not well liked by many and Schwartz had his detractors, too, though some, like Elliot Maggin, said he was blunt and brutal, but he, personally, never had a problem with it. Schiff is the one I have read least about, in terms of personality and professional relationships. There was an old story, largely debunked, of Alex Toth being disrespected and receiving a power play from either Julie Schwartz or Robert Kanigher (I have heard both), about withholding a paycheck due him, for a job and he dangled them out a window, until he got his check. Like I say, it was largely debunked; but, I have heard other stories about Schwartz and Kanigher making people wait for checks while they played cards, just to show them who was boss. This was really the end of the "Mad Men" era of cigar-chomping, testosterone-fueled, good-'ol-boy's-club editors... They must have really resented the younger fan/creator hippies who came along to replace them. Well, it's pretty well documented that one of Jenette Kahn's biggest challenges, when she became publisher, was changing the editorial side of things.
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