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Post by dabellwrites on Aug 3, 2022 18:21:28 GMT -5
Basically the title, doesn't matter when you grew up. Trying to come to an understanding on why the Man of Steel popularity waned over the decades.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 3, 2022 18:52:45 GMT -5
Basically the title, doesn't matter when you grew up. Trying to come to an understanding on why the Man of Steel popularity waned over the decades. In what terms, though? I was a kid in the 1970s and Superman was the most globally recognized superhero character. The comic didn't sell what it once did; but, it was DC's flagship character and the one you could almost guarantee that 90% of people, if asked to name a superhero, would give you. As a comic, there were some good and some really great stories and some mediocre and some boring, if not outright bad ones. There were actually some really good ones, in the early 70s, and the books had Cary Bates and Elliot Maggin doing some good stuff, when they were allowed to. In the media, he appeared on Saturday morning cartoons, in the New Adv of Superman, alongside Batman (when I saw them); and, then, the Super Friends. Sesame Street included some Filmation-produced animation and he appeared in this segment.... Everyone I knew, as a young child, read Superman comics, at least occasionally, if not regularly. He may not have been the darling of fandom or collectors; but, they didn't represent the mass audience, even then. It was still somewhat of a mass medium. As the decade played out, his popularity waned, as Bates and Maggin ran out of ideas and editorial spun their wheels; but, you still had good stories with him, occasionally, and in team-ups. By the end of the decade, his comics weren't big sellers, but DC Comics Presents seemed to do pretty well and had good stories. World's Finest had some good ones in there and JLA. Marty Pasko did some good work, in the late 70s. At the early part of the decade you have the "Kryptonite No More" saga, with the sand creature, as well as those great World of Krypton back-ups, exploring the history of Krypton (great looking one from Mike Kaluta, in there). The Superman movie led to a plethora of merchandise, the Elliot Maggin novel (Superman: Last Son of Krypton, which I am re-reading, right now) and it was the top box office hit of the year and one of the top grossing ever, at the time. critics loved it and audiences loved it. Superman was also used in recruiting ads for the US Air Force and they televised an adaptation of the Broadway musical, It's a Bird, It's a Plane.... So, culturally, he was still a big deal and he still sold a lot of comics and was known around the world; and, many of those stories were pretty good. Artistically, it was pretty much Curt Swan and Kurt Schaffenberger, with some Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, as well as Dick Dillin (JLA and some of World's Finest). Swan got some slickening from Murphy Anderson, early on. You also still had the Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen books, which turned into Superman Family. Those would be up and down; but, they had some good strings of stories. Lois got some weird ones, like when she was transformed into a black woman. However, she also got those great Rose and Thorn stories. Jimmy Olsen got Kirby, for a period. So, to a narrow selection of "fans" he was considered boring and passe; but, to a wider audience and as pop culture, he was still a pretty big deal.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,051
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Post by Confessor on Aug 3, 2022 18:55:34 GMT -5
As the greatest A-list superhero of all time and a beacon of bravery, justice and hope.
I grew up in the late 70s and early-to-mid 80s, so at that point, thanks in large part to the Christopher Reeve Superman films, he was considered by the public at large as way cooler than Batman, who was still suffering from the negative effects of the Adam West TV series. Every kid I knew who read comics would buy at least some Superman comics. Only Wonder Woman, Spider-Man and the Hulk came close back then, in terms of their profile among the wider, non-comic reading populace, mostly because they had all had TV shows. But none of them were as well known or popular as Superman.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 3, 2022 18:58:16 GMT -5
As to why popularity waned? Well, never letting much change occur, having few threats that he couldn't easily handle, and more old fashioned artwork didn't work in his favor. Also, he was a virtuous hero in a cynical age, where movie heroes were Dirty Harry, Paul Kersey (Death Wish), Popeye Doyle (French Connection) and James Bond. He was kind of old fashioned, though good writers knew how to make that a virtue. Problem is, he didn't get as many of those, as time wore on and the younger crowd that came from fandom treated him as "lame," rather than recognizing the power of a quiet leader.
The movie sequels didn't help, either, as they got campier with each one. Donner treated it seriously and so did Reeve; but, Richard Lester and the Salkinds are another story.
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Post by berkley on Aug 4, 2022 0:15:47 GMT -5
I didn't know many other people who were into comics growing up in the 1960s and '70s, so I don't really have a picture of how Superman was thought of amongst my peer group. In the culture at large ... again, I don't think comics were mainstream enough when I was a kid for me to have a sense of how any comics characters were viewed. Maybe Batman, because of the popularity of the tv show - and, again because of the tv show, I imagine Batman was probably viewed as a kids' character for the most part.
I don't remember seeing the 1950s Superman tv show as a kid - did it have any effect on how Superman was seen beyond the comics-reading audience? Was its popularity similar to the Batman show's in the '60s?
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Post by zaku on Aug 4, 2022 1:10:45 GMT -5
Why, as the Symbol of American Imperialism, of course
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Post by dabellwrites on Aug 4, 2022 1:28:21 GMT -5
Basically the title, doesn't matter when you grew up. Trying to come to an understanding on why the Man of Steel popularity waned over the decades. In what terms, though? I was a kid in the 1970s and Superman was the most globally recognized superhero character. The comic didn't sell what it once did; but, it was DC's flagship character and the one you could almost guarantee that 90% of people, if asked to name a superhero, would give you. As a comic, there were some good and some really great stories and some mediocre and some boring, if not outright bad ones. There were actually some really good ones, in the early 70s, and the books had Cary Bates and Elliot Maggin doing some good stuff, when they were allowed to. In the media, he appeared on Saturday morning cartoons, in the New Adv of Superman, alongside Batman (when I saw them); and, then, the Super Friends. Sesame Street included some Filmation-produced animation and he appeared in this segment.... Everyone I knew, as a young child, read Superman comics, at least occasionally, if not regularly. He may not have been the darling of fandom or collectors; but, they didn't represent the mass audience, even then. It was still somewhat of a mass medium. As the decade played out, his popularity waned, as Bates and Maggin ran out of ideas and editorial spun their wheels; but, you still had good stories with him, occasionally, and in team-ups. By the end of the decade, his comics weren't big sellers, but DC Comics Presents seemed to do pretty well and had good stories. World's Finest had some good ones in there and JLA. Marty Pasko did some good work, in the late 70s. At the early part of the decade you have the "Kryptonite No More" saga, with the sand creature, as well as those great World of Krypton back-ups, exploring the history of Krypton (great looking one from Mike Kaluta, in there). The Superman movie led to a plethora of merchandise, the Elliot Maggin novel (Superman: Last Son of Krypton, which I am re-reading, right now) and it was the top box office hit of the year and one of the top grossing ever, at the time. critics loved it and audiences loved it. Superman was also used in recruiting ads for the US Air Force and they televised an adaptation of the Broadway musical, It's a Bird, It's a Plane.... So, culturally, he was still a big deal and he still sold a lot of comics and was known around the world; and, many of those stories were pretty good. Artistically, it was pretty much Curt Swan and Kurt Schaffenberger, with some Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, as well as Dick Dillin (JLA and some of World's Finest). Swan got some slickening from Murphy Anderson, early on. You also still had the Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen books, which turned into Superman Family. Those would be up and down; but, they had some good strings of stories. Lois got some weird ones, like when she was transformed into a black woman. However, she also got those great Rose and Thorn stories. Jimmy Olsen got Kirby, for a period. So, to a narrow selection of "fans" he was considered boring and passe; but, to a wider audience and as pop culture, he was still a pretty big deal.
I didn't think this through (I never do. ), so I was thinking in general. Comics, TV/movies, etc. Just how everyone viewed the Man of Steel as you grew up.
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Post by Cei-U! on Aug 4, 2022 2:32:36 GMT -5
I first encountered Superman before I could read via the '50s TV series, which ran every weekday afternoon on one of our local stations. Then I discovered the comics (Action, Adventure, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane, Superboy, Superman) and devoured them whenever I crossed paths with 'em, especially if they featured the Bizarros, the Super-Pets, or Jimmy going through another weird-ass transformation (I loved Giant Turtle Man). Once I got turned on to the Marvel gang, especially Spider-Man and Thor, I had no time for "baby" comics like Superman's (though I did deign to watch the Filmation cartoons on Saturday mornings). I dabbled in the Superfamily titles again around the time I started junior high--the Kirby Jimmys, "Kryptonite No More," anything drawn by Swanderson--but didn't really commit to collecting anything but Justice League and World's Finest (because of Batman, not Big Blue). I was 20 when the '78 movie came out and no longer "growing up" so I'll stop there.
Cei-U! I summon the olden times!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2022 3:02:17 GMT -5
Superman was flat out the coolest, most positive superhero when I was growing up, and in his truest form, still is. The actual success in "doing right by him" by various creative teams over the years has certainly varied, particularly in more modern jaded times, but the "real" Superman will always be the greatest.
He wasn't just this "overpowered character" that writers sometimes struggled to come up with interesting challenges for, but much like Captain America for Marvel, more importantly was the heart and soul of "fighting the good fight" if you will. Superman does best with a more "classic" treatment IMO because he is more an ideal and inspiration. The 90's animated series really got it right still, and likewise his occasional appearances in Batman Brave and the Bold. And those are both proof it has nothing to do with "inherent limitations" of the character in modern times, in the hands of the right creative team he will always be awesome, there's a timeless appeal when done right.
His popularity certainly hasn't waned for me over the decades in the least, and I'm pretty sure he's still pretty prominent. It's like tennis pro ratings to me, you get a player who was a #1 for long stretches of time, and later in their career they start to drop in the rankings, but still remain solidly in the top 10 for the most part. Superman has certainly not dropped too far, he's going to remain a high profile property even if they can't nail stuff like with the lackluster modern movies or whatnot.
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 4, 2022 8:24:42 GMT -5
For me, the only Superman I paid attention to was the George Reeves TV show which was in reruns in the 60s. I was aware of the comics, but rarely read them. I found Curt Swan's art boring (I have since changed my opinion) and the stories underwhelming. I think some of the quirkier ones, like Myxlpklik(sic) and Bizarro were fun. I did not read Superman until the John Byrne reboot and the the Carlin era was my favorite period.
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Post by MDG on Aug 4, 2022 9:19:15 GMT -5
How was Superman viewed when I was growing up? Every weekday at 4:00 on channel 11. I don't remember seeing the 1950s Superman tv show as a kid - did it have any effect on how Superman was seen beyond the comics-reading audience? Was its popularity similar to the Batman show's in the '60s? In NYC, it was probably on consistently into the 70s, and it was very popular. I cn't find an image, but there was a DC house ad in the 60s that listed dozens of local markets where it was on the air. And I'm sure most kids born '54-'64 first know Superman from that; after that, likely from the Saturday AM cartoons.
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Post by tonebone on Aug 4, 2022 10:07:26 GMT -5
I grew up in the 70s and 80s. I was 10 when Superman the Movie was released. He was the apex hero at that time, universally recognized and understood. The Adventures of Superman show was in constant rotation in afternoon reruns, he was the anchor of SuperFriends, and his solo cartoons were still being shown, with a new version recently airing. If you were going to license a character for bedsheets, underoos, birthday cakes, costumes, etc., Superman is where you would start.
I think two things contributed to his "decline" in popularity. One was the diminishing quality of the Superman movies with III and IV, which I feel really hurt his branding. I think he became more of a joke to a lot of people, older kids and adults, in particular. Comics-wise, I feel like his shtick was somewhat dated. Updates to his civilian life had been made, such as making him a TV reporter/anchor, etc. but even that seemed like a 60's idea of what TV newsmen would be like.
The other was the ascension of younger, "fresher" heroes, such as the X-Men and the Teen Titans. I think he dominated the comics scene for SO LONG, and, while still immensely popular, and probably still the most recognized comics character EVER, others became more interesting to comics readers. Superman's comics had really been unchanging since his inception, where newer titles were not adverse to characters coming, going, or even dying. The Status Quo was no longer good enough for "more sophisticated" readers.
I will say, that as a kid, I was generally a good kid. Like, an unusually well-behaved kid. I LOVED Superman, and consumed everything that featured him. If I was ever to have a moral dilemma to choose whether or not to do something, I would wonder what Superman would think of it. It really kept me out of a lot of trouble. My family was not religious, and God was a very abstract concept to me. Superman was my moral compass.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 4, 2022 11:32:24 GMT -5
I'm similar to Cei-U and MDG by first encountering Supes on the Mon-Fri afternoon George Reeves TV syndicated repeats. So when I was ready to graduate from Archie and Disney comics, I went right to Supes' books in 1962 and then other DCs. Even after hooking on to marvel, I kept up with the DCs as well Why is it not as popular anymore? I've got nothing to add to what's been said. Too powerful to continue to be a consistant exciting read. Too many years of silliness and blandness.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2022 13:03:09 GMT -5
Superman was definitely considered news worthy when I was in those single-digit years....I was watching the Sci-Fi channel in late 1992 and there was the announcement...Superman DIES. Of course, being small and impressionable as I was, I got sucked into the hype and had to get my copy. And it was the first time I ever bought a comic with my own money.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 4, 2022 21:12:06 GMT -5
Why, as the Symbol of American Imperialism, of course Naw, that's Richie Rich!
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